2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

[saxitoxin]

Qaeda was a database of CIA assets used to carry out covert warfare against the Soviet Union during the eighties

I agree with this because there's a preponderance of evidence and it's been widely and directly documented.

we now use them in Libya, Syria and other Arab states that we want to carry out regime change in.

I agree with this inasmuch as "al Qaeda" represents more of an idea than a unified, hierarchically stable, top-down organization.

They still work for us, they were created by us.

This is where the first gigantic leap occurs. An arsonist (U.S.) lit my house (Libya) on fire (Al Qaeda). It doesn't follow that the arsonist "controls fire" and that all fire everywhere, forever, will obey the arsonists orders.

[_sabotage_]

We provided them the weapons, or at least NATO did, quite directly in Libya, less directly in Syria, and covertly in Chechnya, Afghan and others.

If they are using our weapons, and they are cashing our cheques after succeeding in our training programs, and we continue to provide them with cheques, I would suggest they work for us.

[saxitoxin]

We provided them the weapons, or at least NATO did, quite directly in Libya, less directly in Syria, and covertly in Chechnya, Afghan and others.

If they are using our weapons, and they are cashing our cheques after succeeding in our training programs, and we continue to provide them with cheques, I would suggest they work for us.

Clearly the Saudis, Qataris, NATO and the Zionists support Al Qaeda. You think that support involves a complex program of nurturing a puppy to adulthood, training it to sic on command. I contend their support is much more simpleton and is just a crude, morally obtuse policy of unchaining a rabid dog and letting it attack anything that moves, in the hope it will bite their enemies a few more times than it will bite themselves.

The evidence for George Bush's advance knowledge of 9/11 comes down to a string of assumptions based on a worldview that perceives patterns in nature as always being the result of sinister forces if no other explanation is available. It's a 21st century version of a witchcraft panic.

[_sabotage_]

Excellent, so we agree, Bin Laden was a part of Al Qaeda, or a database, as he was a person who would be on it, someone who was trained and had received weapons at one time from the CIA. He was not the leader of it, just had his own little hub that had once been active against the Russians.

So if he isn't the leader of a massive international terrorist network as presented, who was he, who were his followers, who were the people used in 9/11 and how was he able to succeed?

He is a son of Bush family friends and business associates in Saudi Arabia with a failing kidney losing his small fight in Afghanistan.

Who were his followers? A small group of Islamic fundamentalist who thought they could start revolutions.

From what can be seen of the proposed 19 hijackers, they showed no sign of Islamist fundamentalism. They had few skills. They were open and obvious. Some of them had ties to our military, but that is hardly surprising or damning.

Did they all come from the same place? No they came from a wide area. Were they devout? No, they drank, gambled, went to strip clubs.

He was able to succeed because we had no defense that day.

Are we able to agree on these points and move forward?

[saxitoxin]

Excellent, so we agree, Bin Laden was a part of Al Qaeda, or a database, as he was a person who would be on it, someone who was trained and had received weapons at one time from the CIA. He was not the leader of it, just had his own little hub that had once been active against the Russians.

So if he isn't the leader of a massive international terrorist network as presented, who was he, who were his followers, who were the people used in 9/11 and how was he able to succeed?

He is a son of Bush family friends and business associates in Saudi Arabia with a failing kidney losing his small fight in Afghanistan.

Who were his followers? A small group of Islamic fundamentalist who thought they could start revolutions.

From what can be seen of the proposed 19 hijackers, they showed no sign of Islamist fundamentalism. They had few skills. They were open and obvious. Some of them had ties to our military, but that is hardly surprising or damning.

Did they all come from the same place? No they came from a wide area. Were they devout? No, they drank, gambled, went to strip clubs.

He was able to succeed because we had no defense that day.

Are we able to agree on these points and move forward?

Everything highlighted in red, whether true or not, is unrelated to the question as to whether George Bush was warned in advance a plane would crash into the WTC during the 8:00 hour September 11, 2001.

Again, you're taking disjointed pieces of information and self-arranging them into patterns you contend can only be explained through the action of sinister, unseen forces. The goal is to create a sense of mystery. It's the same reason Alex Jones plays spooky synthesizer music beneath his YouTube videos or Jesse Ventura shoots his TV show in a room with all the lights turned off or Luke Rudkowski dresses like he's on his way to a gay porn shoot.

Evidence is mutually supporting documentation and witness testimony. Evidence is not unexplained coincidences (except in the Salem Witch Trials).

Everything highlighted in green is sophistry needed to contribute to the sense of mystery. For the last ten years, MSM and the USG have fallen over themselves claiming Al Qaeda is a decentralized, cell-based organization. I can't recall a single instance in which OBL was presented as "the [functional] leader of a massive international terrorist network."

[_sabotage_]

Wow, now you are back to organization, when you had just admitted it was a database.

Which is it? Are the Libyan Al Qaeda that we gave weapons to to overthrow Qaddafi and who are currently using them to wage war in Mali, in an organization with Bin Laden or in a database with him?

[saxitoxin]

Wow, now you are back to organization, when you had just admitted it was a database.

I just did a CTRL+F search on the last two pages and I haven't used the word "database" nor am I even sure what it means.

Again, similar to your "the leader of a massive international terrorist network as presented", this is how the conspiracy theory is built. It's a series of verifiable facts seamlessly linked except for a few gaps. The gaps are filled by things that sound like they could be true, even if there's no evidence for them, or - in fact - contra-evidence.

I believe that 2+2=4. You believe that 2+2=4 but equations that are just one or two numbers off - like 1+2, or 3+0 - could, potentially, also equal 4.

[_sabotage_]

Ok, thank you for whatever that was, back to my question, Are the Libyan Al Qaeda that we gave weapons to to overthrow Qaddafi and who are currently using them to wage war in Mali, in an organization with Bin Laden or in a database with him?

[john9blue]

can i ask why lots of people in this thread react with such hostility to conspiracy theories? what threat do they pose to you? are you afraid that someone might know something that you don't? are you afraid that what you think you know might be wrong? are you afraid of alternative lines of inquiry into an event? do you only have the balls to insult people for being wrong when you severely outnumber them?

i mean you people just accept the official story and then spew your usual bullshit about how the "burden of proof isn't on you" when someone makes an alternative hypothesis. learn to defend your own opinions, you fucking sheep. i don't necessarily agree with most of what sabotage is posting... but most of the people in this thread are utterly retarded.

[BigBallinStalin]

J9B, we thank you for your criticism. Surely, you agree that conspiracy theories must be rigorously tested, and the assumptions of each argument should be stated clearly, which has been my goal ITT.

I admit that some conspiracy theories have merit, but sometimes particular claims require further inquiry, so that we can prevent our imaginations from masking speculation under the guise of certainty.

[GeneralRisk]

95% of Americans are sheeple

show: Sheeple

[warmonger1981]

Never let a crisis go to waste. Just sit back and wait for a tragedy to happen then implement your laws or executive orders. The war on terror is a never ending excuse for war. Anyone can be a terrorist so America is not really at war with anyone specific. Hence a war on the entire world.

[john9blue]

95% of Americans are sheeple

show: Sheeple

do you really think that MOST children could be better educated without the rigidity of the schooling system? i disagree. public schooling certainly fails to educate/indoctrinate the most intelligent/open-minded students of a given class, but most children simply will not learn unless forced into this structure. it becomes a question of whether you would sacrifice societal productivity for a bit of critical thinking skill from people whose thoughts don't really matter anyway (with the exception of voting... but we've already learned that votes hardly matter in america so i don't think that will change much)

my experience is that most truly intelligent people are largely unaffected by the factors you listed above. speaking of which, where does the 95% figure come from? it is too low.

[saxitoxin]

All the major pop culture conspiracy theories today regurgitate those of the early 90s from Behold a Pale Horse which, in turn, regurgitate those of the early 70s from None Dare It Call Conspiracy, etc. The exact same memes are revisited every generation by a new messenger and a portion of that generation is led to believe they have had a sliver of esoteric information revealed to them.

In a study last month, research showed that telling people they were about to receive "dangerous information" and then warning them to be an "independent thinker" instead of a "sheep" was an effective way to get people to follow a conspiracy theory.

This may be derived from using the loaded terms ‘‘sheep’’ and ‘‘independent thinker,’’ both of which strongly align with core American values. Although independent thinking may be perceived as an attractive quality by participants, it was used in the metainoculation to promote the rejection of an empirically accurate and logically sound deconstruction of a rather outrageous conspiracy theory, thereby creating the type of influence participants were likely trying to avoid.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0/abstract

But this guy already knows that ...

"ALL THEIR BUGGIN' THEIR EYES OUT AT US!"

[_sabotage_]

Ah now I see.

Galileo was a conspiracy theorist. He provided people with dangerous information, according to the Church, suggested it could be witnessed with independent thinking and therefore contrary believes were of necessity those of sheep.

Glad we put him under house arrest. Too bad we didn't have control over the Mayans, Chinese, Indians and other cultures of that day. It burns my ass that those fools were allowed to promulgate such dangerous theories unchecked.

[AndyDufresne]

Ah now I see.

Galileo was a conspiracy theorist. He provided people with dangerous information, according to the Church, suggested it could be witnessed with independent thinking and therefore contrary believes were of necessity those of sheep.

Glad we put him under house arrest. Too bad we didn't have control over the Mayans, Chinese, Indians and other cultures of that day. It burns my ass that those fools were allowed to promulgate such dangerous theories unchecked.

i r agree.

Luckily, Galileo is still wrong: http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/ ($50.00 Luncheon! Yes!)


--Andy

[_sabotage_]

We should dig him up and put his ass in jail or say we shot him and buried him at sea.

[AndyDufresne]

He is buried in: Basilica di Santa Croce di Firenze, where some other famous Italian thinkers are buried, according to wikipedia, "such as Michelangelo, Galileo, Machiavelli, Foscolo, Gentile and Rossini."




--Andy

[_sabotage_]

So many conspiracy theorists all in one place...

[john9blue]

i r agree.

Luckily, Galileo is still wrong: http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/ ($50.00 Luncheon! Yes!)


--Andy

is it just me, or do most webpages with fringe beliefs use nothing more than basic HTML formatting? i feel like these guys made the webpage themselves because they wouldn't trust any web designer to do it for them...

[AndyDufresne]

i r agree.

Luckily, Galileo is still wrong: http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/ ($50.00 Luncheon! Yes!)


--Andy

is it just me, or do most webpages with fringe beliefs use nothing more than basic HTML formatting? i feel like these guys made the webpage themselves because they wouldn't trust any web designer to do it for them...

I've had the same thought. It is always a blast from like 1992, with a starry background, no image borders, and usually glowing section dividers. Long live Geocities and the like.


--Andy

[saxitoxin]

Galileo was a conspiracy theorist. He provided people with dangerous information, according to the Church, suggested it could be witnessed with independent thinking and therefore contrary believes were of necessity those of sheep.

Sure. For those who consider this guy ...



... and this guy ...



... to be on equal intellectual footing, I can see that that argument certainly makes sense.

[2dimes]

Well, even though Galileo's videos ended up being damaged during a change over to a newer storage media. Trust me they were pretty gnarly.

[_sabotage_]

I didn't know you held Alex Jones in such a high esteem, too much hot air for my liking.

So what was it? Do Al Qaeda have a united mission statement? Would other members of Al Qaeda take orders from Bin Laden? Do they pool funds? How many people could we say are Laden's boys?

Or was he just an uncle that showed up for a free Thanksgiving dinner to the other's? How was he funded? Let's get an image of the bad guy. What exactly were his means? Motive and opportunity? Is Al Qaeda like the Christian church, where millions of people are showing up at thousands of different places, having hundreds of distinct interpretations and tenets, and he was Jesus? Or was he just like a rich has been? Or are some down with us, and help us with regime change in the countries listed as evil, like the ones we gave the weapons to in Libya? Or are we like their devil and all want to destroy us? Like the ones we gave the weapons to in Libya?

[saxitoxin]

Do Al Qaeda have a united mission statement? Would other members of Al Qaeda take orders from Bin Laden? Do they pool funds? How many people could we say are Laden's boys?

Out of curiosity, what kind of answer are you honestly expecting to get here? You seem to either be under the impression that I have the login code to Osama's copy of QuickBooksPro, or are insinuating that you do.

And to get the jump on where I'm sure this is headed ... absence of information does not evidence action by unseen, sinister forces.