2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:07 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:Yes, I feel that the laws of physics can't be broken by propaganda. That WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 could not have fallen they way they did based on what we have been told. It is physically impossible. That a plane measuring double the size of the hole it creates is impossible. These are called facts, and you can write as much as you like, but facts are hard to spin.


So, your position is this:

1. Laws of physics
2. 9-11? Conspiracy!


What are your underlying assumptions?

1. Government is incompetent with many things--except for pulling off large-scale conspiracy theories.
2. The tens of thousands within government are great at keeping secrets.
3. The media and the many freelancers are incapable of revealing the truth behind the conspiracy theory.
4. Only a select group which refuses to read any sources but their own know the facts.
5. And somehow something countered the usual incentives faced by the FBI, CIA, NSA, DoD, etc. They became were all aligned and on-board with the conspiracy, so that they would fail to conduct their normal operations in countering a terrorist attack.

Sounds like an imaginative string of assumptions here. And #4 is very self-serving!
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Jusr because thousands of employees are incompetent doesn't mean a handful of people in the government are. The government is good at one thing and thats fucking the public. Really good at stripping away your rights is one thing they are good at. Fear is almost as persuasive aps hope. Hoe comes from fear.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:07 pm

1. I don't believe that the government is incompetent, I just believe that their competence revolves around their own interests, and that their interests aren't tied to the peoples.
2. Didn't need tens of thousands, needed a few. All they had to do was let a threat take form and add a few touches.
3. The NYTimes released info on the 6 warnings Bush received, and yet this thread states that anyone who thinks Bush had advanced knowledge is a conspiracist.
4. It's not a select few, it's millions of people and many major media has reported great doubts on the official story internationally, though seldom in the US.
5. CIA provided Bush with six warnings, FBI reports that they were impeded from doing their job, DoD were the folks saying it was a hoax to deflect attention from Saddam.

And yes, my position remains that until the laws of physics are changed to fit the scenario, then reality will just have to do.
User avatar
Corporal _sabotage_
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:02 am

warmonger1981 wrote:How about the illuminati card game made in 1982 and revised in 1991. It shows the twin towers exploding by a terrorist attack. Did the makers of the game know what the future holds as most of the cards are strategies being used? How about that for conspiracy. I'm not saying I believe in that crap but it is kind of creepy.


If Steve Jackson was that clever he'd be rich.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby daddy1gringo on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:50 am

_sabotage_ wrote:LBJ killed JFK.
LBJ took the IRT down to 4th street USA/ when he got there what did he see? The youth of America on LSD. -- James Rado and Jerome Ragini
The right answer to the wrong question is still the wrong answer to the real question.
User avatar
Lieutenant daddy1gringo
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:47 am
Location: Connecticut yankee expatriated in Isabela, NW PR
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:41 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:1. I don't believe that the government is incompetent, I just believe that their competence revolves around their own interests, and that their interests aren't tied to the peoples.
2. Didn't need tens of thousands, needed a few. All they had to do was let a threat take form and add a few touches.
3. The NYTimes released info on the 6 warnings Bush received, and yet this thread states that anyone who thinks Bush had advanced knowledge is a conspiracist.
4. It's not a select few, it's millions of people and many major media has reported great doubts on the official story internationally, though seldom in the US.
5. CIA provided Bush with six warnings, FBI reports that they were impeded from doing their job, DoD were the folks saying it was a hoax to deflect attention from Saddam.

And yes, my position remains that until the laws of physics are changed to fit the scenario, then reality will just have to do.


If I only led creationist books and refused to read science books--cuz they're propaganda, then the "evidence" of creationism would seem strong, wouldn't it?
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby Crazyirishman on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:43 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
nietzsche wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
nietzsche wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
nietzsche wrote:You are all missing the point.

The key here is why people like conspiracy theories, what do they remind them.

Have you read the Hero with a thousand faces?


I recall seeing that book in the movie Big Fish. That's the extent of my knowledge about it. :P


Are you saying that conspiracy theorists (CTs) view themselves as the hero who will bring back the booty to others?

What role do CTs play in Campbell's monomyth?


I'm saying that all of us have a innate tendency to believe in a myth. It's a story in the back of our minds all the time. I believe (I have no proof or scholar article) that it's somehow the origin of the tendecy we all have to believe in conspiracy theories.


There's not much mythic with conspiracy theories. It begins with, "No, X didn't happen; Y did."

(to be clear, there's a difference between Campbell's use of "myth"--as in, "epic quest," and your use of "myth"--i.e. "urban legend").


Nope, I meant it in the epic quest way.

I'm going to leave it there though, you are not ready ;)


You really think that CTs view themselves as heroes?


I'm about halfway through the Hero of 1000 Faces right now, and I'm struggling to draw the connections between Campbell's ideas of myth and conspiracies. Myth is used to explore and explain ideas of the human conditions in hopes that others will learn lessons from them and apply them to life. It doesn't feel as if conspiracy theories have the same intent.
User avatar
Captain Crazyirishman
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: Maine, North Carolina, Colorado or somewhere in between.
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (7)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby nietzsche on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Big Ballin Stalin wrote:There's not much mythic with conspiracy theories. It begins with, "No, X didn't happen; Y did."

(to be clear, there's a difference between Campbell's use of "myth"--as in, "epic quest," and your use of "myth"--i.e. "urban legend").


nietzsche wrote:Nope, I meant it in the epic quest way.

I'm going to leave it there though, you are not ready ;)


Crazyirishman wrote:I'm about halfway through the Hero of 1000 Faces right now, and I'm struggling to draw the connections between Campbell's ideas of myth and conspiracies. Myth is used to explore and explain ideas of the human conditions in hopes that others will learn lessons from them and apply them to life. It doesn't feel as if conspiracy theories have the same intent.


nietzsche wrote:I'm saying that all of us have a innate tendency to believe in a myth. It's a story in the back of our minds all the time. I believe (I have no proof or scholar article) that it's somehow the origin of the tendecy we all have to believe in conspiracy theories.


It's as if you guys never read a poem, as if you never venture a little farther of what matter-of-fact, logic, left-brain says.

There's a connection between Campbell's Hero and Jung's archetypes. They are talking of the same universal human psyche. Not all humans must believe in conspiracy theories but the great majority do. Is Campbell's "myth" perfectly delineated? Could there be a little more deep down there? Could some of the myth imagery be both used to like hero stories and believe in conspiracy theories?

If I had faked a source, faked a wikipedia entry and made you believe it came from a scholar, you guys wouldn't doubt it for a second, even without knowing the scholar, you would've just needed he was in some prestigious western university. You would just learn it and qoute it.
betiko wrote:it really hurt. I learned a few years later that I was doing it wrong, i was inserting them in my anus

DoomYoshi wrote:ffs nietzche, sitting in the library at school and bam - vaginas all over the screen

betiko wrote:Saxi, you have rotten balls necrosing your sack.
User avatar
Major nietzsche
 
Posts: 2020
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Fantasy Cooperstown
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby Crazyirishman on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:25 pm

nietzsche wrote:
It's as if you guys never read a poem, as if you never venture a little farther of what matter-of-fact, logic, left-brain says.

There's a connection between Campbell's Hero and Jung's archetypes. They are talking of the same universal human psyche. Not all humans must believe in conspiracy theories but the great majority do. Is Campbell's "myth" perfectly delineated? Could there be a little more deep down there? Could some of the myth imagery be both used to like hero stories and believe in conspiracy theories?

If I had faked a source, faked a wikipedia entry and made you believe it came from a scholar, you guys wouldn't doubt it for a second, even without knowing the scholar, you would've just needed he was in some prestigious western university. You would just learn it and qoute it.


Whoa, that's a little harsh. I completely agree with you that there's a connection between Campbell's and Jung's work, I mean Campbell says it himself in the book. And of course there's some 'deep down there' stuff in his ideas just like any other critical thought oriented writing. Just because you find a source for something doesn't mean I'm going to think and blindly accept that: *derp! a guy with a PhD from *insert name of western university" said it so it must be true."

What I said was that for me myth and conspiracy seem to have different purposes, so I was struggling to find the connection between the two. Its easier for me to learn a lesson about the human condition from Oedipus or the Iliad and Odyssey than it is for me to learn a lesson from 'Obama was born in Kenya", "The government was behind 9/11" and the Illuminati.
User avatar
Captain Crazyirishman
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: Maine, North Carolina, Colorado or somewhere in between.
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (7)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby nietzsche on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:
nietzsche wrote:
It's as if you guys never read a poem, as if you never venture a little farther of what matter-of-fact, logic, left-brain says.

There's a connection between Campbell's Hero and Jung's archetypes. They are talking of the same universal human psyche. Not all humans must believe in conspiracy theories but the great majority do. Is Campbell's "myth" perfectly delineated? Could there be a little more deep down there? Could some of the myth imagery be both used to like hero stories and believe in conspiracy theories?

If I had faked a source, faked a wikipedia entry and made you believe it came from a scholar, you guys wouldn't doubt it for a second, even without knowing the scholar, you would've just needed he was in some prestigious western university. You would just learn it and qoute it.


Whoa, that's a little harsh. I completely agree with you that there's a connection between Campbell's and Jung's work, I mean Campbell says it himself in the book. And of course there's some 'deep down there' stuff in his ideas just like any other critical thought oriented writing. Just because you find a source for something doesn't mean I'm going to think and blindly accept that: *derp! a guy with a PhD from *insert name of western university" said it so it must be true."

What I said was that for me myth and conspiracy seem to have different purposes, so I was struggling to find the connection between the two. Its easier for me to learn a lesson about the human condition from Oedipus or the Iliad and Odyssey than it is for me to learn a lesson from 'Obama was born in Kenya", "The government was behind 9/11" and the Illuminati.


My bad. I was unnecessarily harsh.

I agree with you.

But I was not talking about any specific conspiracy theory though. I do believe there are conspiracies for some stuff, some bigger, some larger. Perhaps a definition of conspiracy would be helpful here.

I think we tend to believe, deep down, there's something more to our reality and we sort of know a bit in our subconcious and we transfer or translate that into what those in power do. As if they were the ones hiding something from us, when it's not necessarily the case. What is hidden we must find inside ourselves.

That's what I think it's in our psyche, similar to what Campbell and Jung propose. And perhaps the hero path is the one we would use to find the "hidden truth"?
betiko wrote:it really hurt. I learned a few years later that I was doing it wrong, i was inserting them in my anus

DoomYoshi wrote:ffs nietzche, sitting in the library at school and bam - vaginas all over the screen

betiko wrote:Saxi, you have rotten balls necrosing your sack.
User avatar
Major nietzsche
 
Posts: 2020
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Fantasy Cooperstown
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:03 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:1. I don't believe that the government is incompetent, I just believe that their competence revolves around their own interests, and that their interests aren't tied to the peoples.
2. Didn't need tens of thousands, needed a few. All they had to do was let a threat take form and add a few touches.
3. The NYTimes released info on the 6 warnings Bush received, and yet this thread states that anyone who thinks Bush had advanced knowledge is a conspiracist.
4. It's not a select few, it's millions of people and many major media has reported great doubts on the official story internationally, though seldom in the US.
5. CIA provided Bush with six warnings, FBI reports that they were impeded from doing their job, DoD were the folks saying it was a hoax to deflect attention from Saddam.

And yes, my position remains that until the laws of physics are changed to fit the scenario, then reality will just have to do.


If I only led creationist books and refused to read science books--cuz they're propaganda, then the "evidence" of creationism would seem strong, wouldn't it?


Have you read The New Pearl Harbour? How about Shock Doctrine? I never said I haven't read any books about the official account, I just choose not to read any more. Have you read any of the literature pointing to an inside job?

Again, this thread holds the simple premise that Bush having advanced knowledge is a conspiracy theory, and yet him receiving six warnings has been verified. So what's your take, you seem to enjoy taking a dig at mine.
User avatar
Corporal _sabotage_
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:32 am

_sabotage_ wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:1. I don't believe that the government is incompetent, I just believe that their competence revolves around their own interests, and that their interests aren't tied to the peoples.
2. Didn't need tens of thousands, needed a few. All they had to do was let a threat take form and add a few touches.
3. The NYTimes released info on the 6 warnings Bush received, and yet this thread states that anyone who thinks Bush had advanced knowledge is a conspiracist.
4. It's not a select few, it's millions of people and many major media has reported great doubts on the official story internationally, though seldom in the US.
5. CIA provided Bush with six warnings, FBI reports that they were impeded from doing their job, DoD were the folks saying it was a hoax to deflect attention from Saddam.

And yes, my position remains that until the laws of physics are changed to fit the scenario, then reality will just have to do.


If I only led creationist books and refused to read science books--cuz they're propaganda, then the "evidence" of creationism would seem strong, wouldn't it?


Have you read The New Pearl Harbour? How about Shock Doctrine? I never said I haven't read any books about the official account, I just choose not to read any more. Have you read any of the literature pointing to an inside job?

Again, this thread holds the simple premise that Bush having advanced knowledge is a conspiracy theory, and yet him receiving six warnings has been verified. So what's your take, you seem to enjoy taking a dig at mine.


The underlined reminds me of the problem with The Day of Deceit, which makes similar claims about FDR being aware of an attack on Pearl Harbor and allowing it to happen. I'm not too interested in this conversation, so I'll make it short. Basically, there's a time-lag in intelligence reports--from the moment the intelligence (and not the raw information) is produced and when the relevant decision-makers actually read it--or some watered-down version. Then there's a range of reports which state contradictory claims, so there's an uncertainty about what may happen. But the conspiracy theorist can ignore this uncertainty and that time-gap at the time of the decision-maker by only referring to 20% of that range of intelligence reports. They can make it seem like the decision-maker knew what would happen because the CT simply failed to mention the other 80% of the reports and their conflicting warnings/concerns.

So, if either Shock Doctrine or The New Pearl Harbour make the underlined claim, then my above concerns are valid. This would require cross-referencing the various intelligence reports which were made available to the president at that time. Hopefully, the FOIA and that process would allow for such a time-consuming endeavor. I would not be surprised if either book did similar research to The Day of Deceit's, thus have failed in supporting the claim that Bush received six warnings. Perhaps, Bush received six warnings, but each one was vague, and the authors neglected to mention the other 20 or so warnings pointing to other places other than NY and were referring to different means (trucks, instead of airplanes). Maybe you can comment on these concerns of mine, and how those books handle that issue.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:46 am

Anyone who doesn't believe that few people with massive amounts of money and power don't want go dominate the globe are ignorant. They probably also believe in Santa clause and Christopher Columbus discovering America. Some people seem to be so smart that they can solve a real tough math problem but cant change a tire on a car or are too blind to read the warning signs. Nah that cant happen or people wouldn't do that. Bullshit most people are either dumb or are too scared to get out of their safe zone. This world is made up by layers of legal limbo jumbo to keep the masses in check.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:51 am

My gut just tells me Occam's razor for these. Yeah, anything is possible but the size of the shadow of doubt has to be considered.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby macbone on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:58 am

Despite being fairly broad-minded, I can't think of any conspiracy theories I believe in. JFK? Roswell? FDR and Pearl Harbor? Maybe, I suppose, but I won't believe 'em unless I see some hard evidence.

But hey, people do vote more than once in the same election, behavior that's not limited to one particular political ideology. =)

Republican who tried to vote twice: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/0 ... 68999.html

Democrat who voted at the polls and sent in an absentee ballot: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_cen ... speaks-out
User avatar
Major macbone
SoC Training Instructor
SoC Training Instructor
 
Posts: 5607
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:12 pm
Location: Looking out over Victoria Harbor, thinking about Middle Earth and how good my wife looks
Medals: 83
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:10 am

Its easy to vote if all you need is a person to vouch for you. Why is it a person can vote without an ID but you cant buy cigarettes or alcohol? Anyone in their right mind would protect the integrity of voting. Hell if you don't have an ID on you a person can get in trouble. If you cant afford an ID one will be given to you issued by the state. The system we live in is made to keep us all on the hamster wheel never to get off. Pulled in so many directions and fighting so many fronts. The deck is stacked kids. Believe it.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:17 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Its easy to vote if all you need is a person to vouch for you. Why is it a person can vote without an ID but you cant buy cigarettes or alcohol? Anyone in their right mind would protect the integrity of voting. Hell if you don't have an ID on you a person can get in trouble. If you cant afford an ID one will be given to you issued by the state. The system we live in is made to keep us all on the hamster wheel never to get off. Pulled in so many directions and fighting so many fronts. The deck is stacked kids. Believe it.

Do you realize how many people would be eliminated on account of not having a valid ID? That particular demographic could not be heard and I feel this would be a more damaging scenario.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:07 am

In Minnesota you would of been able to vote without an ID. Apply for one and the state will issue one free. come back prove you are who you say you are and your vote will count. But that was shot down. A person can still vouch for another at the booth without that person having an ID. So your telling me its ok to have no checks in the system as it will disenfranchise people? So in other words I should be able to vouch for my buddy to buy liquor or go to the club. Well what if my friend is underage? That seems less of an impact on the whole as a society as to false voting. I feel as serious as voting is you better prove you are a citizen. Otherwise if most countries has laws like that I could fly around and vote in those countries on the I'm vouching method.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:32 am

warmonger1981 wrote:In Minnesota you would of been able to vote without an ID. Apply for one and the state will issue one free. come back prove you are who you say you are and your vote will count. But that was shot down. A person can still vouch for another at the booth without that person having an ID. So your telling me its ok to have no checks in the system as it will disenfranchise people? So in other words I should be able to vouch for my buddy to buy liquor or go to the club. Well what if my friend is underage? That seems less of an impact on the whole as a society as to false voting. I feel as serious as voting is you better prove you are a citizen. Otherwise if most countries has laws like that I could fly around and vote in those countries on the I'm vouching method.

I understand your fear and I'm not advocating the ill effects/possibilities of the current system, it's just that instating this rule might overall be adverse since many people would object to even the application process for an ID, which I feel is their right.
I was also thinking that perhaps the ID thing for voting and for buying liquor may not be equal since things like drinking, driving, marriage, etc., vary from state to state while the presidential vote works on a national level. In other words, they aren't in the same boat.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:49 am

It was I guess more of a basic principle. Lets not bicker about who is right of wrong. Opinions are mutually appreciated I hope. Lets get back the the thread fine sir. George Bush and the council on foreign relations did it.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby AAFitz on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:42 am

I think anyone who believes in multiple conspiracy theories, are probably a little naive.
I think anyone that summarily dismisses conspiracy theories, are probably a little naive.

It is much easier to just choose to believe one way or the other, and not give it any more thought, and as long as you dont mind believing in the wrong thing, that is probably the best thing to do for you.

I think, however, if you are truly interested, in understanding the world in which you live, it is important to actually do some research on topics you have interest in, and especially topics you have strong emotions about. For once you have decided something is one way, your brain, will continue to convince itself its right with no additional information whatsoever. You are psychologically programmed, to further whatever beliefs you have right now, and will solidify them, just by thinking about them. Its a scientifically proven fact.

Essentially, we are all driving on a rotary of beliefs, with many roads branching off in different directions. If you choose to ignore the map and GPS, and jump onto one of those roads, its unlikely you will ever get back to that rotary. You will drive on that particular road your entire life, and come to believe it is the right one, almost no matter what, and use the many, many roadsigns along the way to justify your position. However, there is only one road, and unless you are truly informed, you probably should hang out on that rotary a little longer, if you really want to get to your destination. Some of us have jumped on one of those roads, with no meaningful research, and driven down them so fast, that invariably, instead of ending up in Florida on a cozy beach, we will end up in Alaska, freezing. And while you will enjoy Alaska for its beauty, and no doubt make a productive life in those surroundings, there is still no doubt, you failed at your original objective, and most will be too psychologically stubborn, to just buy a ticket(research) and fly back to where they originally wanted to be.(the truth.)

When rashly deciding what events took place, and discounting the possibility of others, discounting the possibility that you are wrong, you essentially insure that you will be wrong. If however, you keep an open mind about nearly everything, or rigorously investigate unbiased information about those topics...you can instead, possibly, get to that beautiful beach, with margarita in hand, and not end up with a frostbitten willy, and explain to everyone that you absolutely made the right choice, through your clicking teeth to the end.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7238
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:02 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:1. I don't believe that the government is incompetent, I just believe that their competence revolves around their own interests, and that their interests aren't tied to the peoples.
2. Didn't need tens of thousands, needed a few. All they had to do was let a threat take form and add a few touches.
3. The NYTimes released info on the 6 warnings Bush received, and yet this thread states that anyone who thinks Bush had advanced knowledge is a conspiracist.
4. It's not a select few, it's millions of people and many major media has reported great doubts on the official story internationally, though seldom in the US.
5. CIA provided Bush with six warnings, FBI reports that they were impeded from doing their job, DoD were the folks saying it was a hoax to deflect attention from Saddam.

And yes, my position remains that until the laws of physics are changed to fit the scenario, then reality will just have to do.


If I only led creationist books and refused to read science books--cuz they're propaganda, then the "evidence" of creationism would seem strong, wouldn't it?


Have you read The New Pearl Harbour? How about Shock Doctrine? I never said I haven't read any books about the official account, I just choose not to read any more. Have you read any of the literature pointing to an inside job?

Again, this thread holds the simple premise that Bush having advanced knowledge is a conspiracy theory, and yet him receiving six warnings has been verified. So what's your take, you seem to enjoy taking a dig at mine.


The underlined reminds me of the problem with The Day of Deceit, which makes similar claims about FDR being aware of an attack on Pearl Harbor and allowing it to happen. I'm not too interested in this conversation, so I'll make it short. Basically, there's a time-lag in intelligence reports--from the moment the intelligence (and not the raw information) is produced and when the relevant decision-makers actually read it--or some watered-down version. Then there's a range of reports which state contradictory claims, so there's an uncertainty about what may happen. But the conspiracy theorist can ignore this uncertainty and that time-gap at the time of the decision-maker by only referring to 20% of that range of intelligence reports. They can make it seem like the decision-maker knew what would happen because the CT simply failed to mention the other 80% of the reports and their conflicting warnings/concerns.

So, if either Shock Doctrine or The New Pearl Harbour make the underlined claim, then my above concerns are valid. This would require cross-referencing the various intelligence reports which were made available to the president at that time. Hopefully, the FOIA and that process would allow for such a time-consuming endeavor. I would not be surprised if either book did similar research to The Day of Deceit's, thus have failed in supporting the claim that Bush received six warnings. Perhaps, Bush received six warnings, but each one was vague, and the authors neglected to mention the other 20 or so warnings pointing to other places other than NY and were referring to different means (trucks, instead of airplanes). Maybe you can comment on these concerns of mine, and how those books handle that issue.


I think I have mentioned a few times before, but the report of the 6 warnings is from the New York Times (7 according to other sources), written three months ago after the warnings were finally released and the correlating testimony of senior members of the White House and Pentagon staff of the time.

Of course the rag isn't well respected, neither are the BBC, the Washington Post, CBC, Scientific America, Harper's or other media outlets.

Nor are the professors at Berkeley, OSU, Perdue, Penn State, U of T, Stanford and more than 300 other universities who have challenged the official account.

Nor does the testimony of more than a hundred on site firefighters matter.

I guess the 9/11 commissioners don't matter as well, since the co-chairmen say they were obstructed by the White House and CIA.

Nor do the victims' families matter, since more than 70% of their questions have been ignored and unanswered.

Nor do the witnesses who gave testimony at the 9/11 commission matter, since anything that fell outside the official story was discarded, and they were then gagged.

Nor do whistle blowers matter, since they only sacrificed their careers to come forward.

Nor do the 2,000 plus scientists, military personnel and engineers matter, since they are only staking their credibility on it.

Nor do foreign politicians and intel agencies matter, since they contradict the story.

Nor do physics or investigative technique apply. Nor does it matter that the president refused to speak under oath. Nor does it matter that extreme amounts of money were gained through 9/11. That the WTC security was run by Bush's cousin, that NORAD and NMCC failed for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th times in their history all on the same day, that the missile defense systems of both the White house and Pentagon failed. That even more than an hour after the first hijacking we still couldn't do anything about the fourth. That 3 buildings got hit and four fell. That the owner of the buildings claimed he "pulled" one.

The only thing that matters is that a Bush staffer says it was legit, of course that another quit and says Bush was complicit doesn't matter. I should ignore all these things and read the works of a guy who was instrumental in the war in Iraq.

Interesting ideas you have there. That we should ignore the past, present and future of the event and focus on something that we can't prove. Usually when all the evidence points away from a conclusion, we tend to look at the direction it points, but in this case, it's such a small thing really, why bother?

And BTW, the Shock Doctrine is a book on economic policies and The New Pearl Habour is a book of testimony and scientific analysis.
User avatar
Corporal _sabotage_
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:29 pm

BBS, all those Nor Do's are you going to make you hard.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25583
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:55 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:BBS, all those Nor Do's are you going to make you hard.


--Andy


Well, like a typical conspiracy theorist, he ignored a valid point about his "6 warnings to Bush" thing while releasing an unrelated smoke screen. He lasted about 3 exchanges, so...


Image


He's still just as nutty as viceroy, premio, and the other creationists, who continue to ignore the relevant literature, but hey, ya can't save 'em all.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:51 pm

George Bush Sept. 11 1991. New world order. No conspiracy. Its just how we get there will be the conspiracy.
Lieutenant warmonger1981
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: ST.PAUL
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (12)

PreviousNext

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login