Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:52 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:More correctly, the Republicans want to cut anything that benefits average Americans, but not the things that benefit their big business cronies... and they will do this while proclaiming "family values" and "low taxes"...


Yes we know, we know, "Republicans want dirty air, dirty water and kids with autism."
Common, say it with me, "Republicans want dirty air, dirty water and kids with autism."
One more time, "Republicans want dirty air, dirty water and kids with autism."

The fact that they hide behind ignorance does not excuse them from the impact of their decisions.


and that, basically is exactly why the pursuit of money is the root of evil. Because profit is being used to justify leaving seniors with no safety net, leaving families without medical coverage and ignoring multutides of problems with product safety, pollution impacts. No, the people involved don't want the harm... but they are working hard to make sure the fact that harm is being caused is ignored.

But autism is largely genetic in its basis.


The pursuit of money is the root of evil? So, before the days of money, there was no evil?

Its not the root of ALL evil. Even so, the advent of money and the establishment of church/religion rather cooincided per some accounts.


correlation != causation.

Because profit is being used to justify leaving seniors with no safety net, leaving families without medical coverage and ignoring multutides of problems with product safety, pollution impacts.

So, back in the day, when there were more mutual aid societies and less government-provided welfare, profit-seeking companies (mutual aid societies) pooled money (which is allegedly evil) in order to provide a safety net.

The "profit and/or money = a form of evil" isn't correct. I've got plenty more examples, which if you applied your stance consistently, then you'd have to call yourself evil.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:06 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I can't think of an example of "protecting the guilty" from the parties other than the Republicans and Democrats.


Didn't I read someone say this guy is Libertarian, not Republican? Didn't he and his campaign try to spin stuff for a few years till someone broke ranks? During the spin years, in other words, they were sort of protecting the guilty.

Politicians in general do that, and it's not new. Remember the movie, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" was about protecting the guilty, too, until Mr. Smith came along and refused to do that.

So, "protect the guilty" is a fundamental flaw of the Republican party, even though it's not isolated to the Republican party.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:09 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
The pursuit of money is the root of evil? So, before the days of money, there was no evil?

Its not the root of ALL evil. Even so, the advent of money and the establishment of church/religion rather cooincided per some accounts.


correlation != causation.

Because profit is being used to justify leaving seniors with no safety net, leaving families without medical coverage and ignoring multutides of problems with product safety, pollution impacts.

So, back in the day, when there were more mutual aid societies and less government-provided welfare, profit-seeking companies (mutual aid societies) pooled money (which is allegedly evil) in order to provide a safety net.
The "profit and/or money = a form of evil" isn't correct. I've got plenty more examples, which if you applied your stance consistently, then you'd have to call yourself evil.


Not really. The "net" to which you refer had some pretty big holes and gaps in coverage... thus the new era.

And, pollution was rampant until regulations. It still is, but because we operate under a "prove it is dangerous" instead of "prove its truly safe" paradigm, we keep playing catch up.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:11 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I can't think of an example of "protecting the guilty" from the parties other than the Republicans and Democrats.


Didn't I read someone say this guy is Libertarian, not Republican? Didn't he and his campaign try to spin stuff for a few years till someone broke ranks? During the spin years, in other words, they were sort of protecting the guilty.

Politicians in general do that, and it's not new. Remember the movie, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" was about protecting the guilty, too, until Mr. Smith came along and refused to do that.

So, "protect the guilty" is a fundamental flaw of the Republican party, even though it's not isolated to the Republican party.

It used to be that there was little difference between Repubs and Democrats, folks tended to switch frequently up until they achieved a major office. (sometimes even then) The fight provided nice cover for the "real work" of meeting their supporters (big money donors.. business) demands.

Now, the Liberaterians and Republicans are gaining ground in opposing anything Democratic as their platform. As long as they do that, they can be as blatant as they like about supporting big business, because they have folks focused on the social issues.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:00 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
The pursuit of money is the root of evil? So, before the days of money, there was no evil?

Its not the root of ALL evil. Even so, the advent of money and the establishment of church/religion rather cooincided per some accounts.


correlation != causation.

Because profit is being used to justify leaving seniors with no safety net, leaving families without medical coverage and ignoring multutides of problems with product safety, pollution impacts.

So, back in the day, when there were more mutual aid societies and less government-provided welfare, profit-seeking companies (mutual aid societies) pooled money (which is allegedly evil) in order to provide a safety net.
The "profit and/or money = a form of evil" isn't correct. I've got plenty more examples, which if you applied your stance consistently, then you'd have to call yourself evil.


Not really. The "net" to which you refer had some pretty big holes and gaps in coverage... thus the new era.

And, pollution was rampant until regulations. It still is, but because we operate under a "prove it is dangerous" instead of "prove its truly safe" paradigm, we keep playing catch up.


Nevertheless, profit and money aren't evil.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:05 am

stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I can't think of an example of "protecting the guilty" from the parties other than the Republicans and Democrats.


Didn't I read someone say this guy is Libertarian, not Republican? Didn't he and his campaign try to spin stuff for a few years till someone broke ranks? During the spin years, in other words, they were sort of protecting the guilty.

Politicians in general do that, and it's not new. Remember the movie, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" was about protecting the guilty, too, until Mr. Smith came along and refused to do that.

So, "protect the guilty" is a fundamental flaw of the Republican party, even though it's not isolated to the Republican party.


Ron Paul is and was a Republican. He has libertarian tendencies with respect to spending and some other issues. And Ithink he was more protecting himself than others protecting him. His libertarian ideology is not compatible with neo-conservatives and thus he was seen as a dangerous person and so was marginalized.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:47 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
The pursuit of money is the root of evil? So, before the days of money, there was no evil?

Its not the root of ALL evil. Even so, the advent of money and the establishment of church/religion rather cooincided per some accounts.


correlation != causation.

Because profit is being used to justify leaving seniors with no safety net, leaving families without medical coverage and ignoring multutides of problems with product safety, pollution impacts.

So, back in the day, when there were more mutual aid societies and less government-provided welfare, profit-seeking companies (mutual aid societies) pooled money (which is allegedly evil) in order to provide a safety net.
The "profit and/or money = a form of evil" isn't correct. I've got plenty more examples, which if you applied your stance consistently, then you'd have to call yourself evil.


Not really. The "net" to which you refer had some pretty big holes and gaps in coverage... thus the new era.

And, pollution was rampant until regulations. It still is, but because we operate under a "prove it is dangerous" instead of "prove its truly safe" paradigm, we keep playing catch up.


Nevertheless, profit and money aren't evil.

ah, but see that is a misinterpretation of the saying.

The saying is not "money is evil". The saying is the “pursuit of money is the root of evil.”

Profit, itself is not evil. Putting profit above people can be.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby tzor on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:38 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:and that, basically is exactly why the pursuit of money is the root of evil.


Democrats always remind me of that old Reboot episode where Enzo, getting access to the core functionality of the CPU, slows down the processes of everyone else in the desire to be the smartest one.

"We are helping," everyone says as they only caused the problem to get worse.

Or in other words, the road to HELL is paved with "good intentions."

The root of evil is placing the self over that of everyone else. The pursuit of money is not in and of itself the root of evil, but when that pursuit is done at the expense of everyone else, it is.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:55 am

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:and that, basically is exactly why the pursuit of money is the root of evil.


Democrats always remind me of that old Reboot episode where Enzo, getting access to the core functionality of the CPU, slows down the processes of everyone else in the desire to be the smartest one.

"We are helping," everyone says as they only caused the problem to get worse.

Or in other words, the road to HELL is paved with "good intentions."

The root of evil is placing the self over that of everyone else. The pursuit of money is not in and of itself the root of evil, but when that pursuit is done at the expense of everyone else, it is.

Are you under some impression that this saying doesn't apply to Democrats?
Or are you just unaware of the source?
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby majorheadache876 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Left-Right Paradigm Is A Hoax

By Chuck Baldwin

February 16, 2012

There may have been a time when the words “conservative” and “liberal” meant something, but that time is no more. Today, “conservatives” in government are doing as much to promote Big Government, as are “liberals.” In fact, if one were to honestly evaluate the twelve years of the George Herbert Walker Bush and G.W.
Bush administrations, one could say that “conservatives” even eclipse “liberals” in promoting Big Government. Under the two Bushes, the federal government expanded (and even exploded) to levels that for-real liberal Democrats could only dream about.

Let’s get realistic. Just because a politico says he or she is “pro-life,” or “pro-family,” or “pro-marriage,” etc., does not mean that they are going to do anything to help save the country. Come on, folks; think! “Conservative” Republican administration appointments have dominated the US Supreme Court since the infamous
Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton decisions that effectively legalized abortion-on-demand. And we are no closer to overturning Roe and Doe after almost forty years of electing “pro-life conservatives” than we were the year after the Roe and Doe decisions were rendered. And for the first six years of the 21st Century, “conservative”
Republicans dominated the entire federal government, and still the Roe and Doe decisions stand.

And when it comes to marriage and family, there is not a darn thing that Washington, D.C., can do to “save” it. Washington can no more “save” the family than it can “create” jobs! Washington is not God--the attitudes of most Washington politicians and national newscasters notwithstanding.

To continue reading Chuck's column, click here:

http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=4581
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby tzor on Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:46 pm

majorheadache876 wrote:“Conservative” Republican administration appointments have dominated the US Supreme Court since the infamous
Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton decisions that effectively legalized abortion-on-demand.


That's clearly not true. A few so called conservatives became liberal once on the court; many are in fact moderate. A number of conservatives never made it at all. Even then, considering that no appointment would ever consider going against the "tradition of the court" it would take even an extreme conservative (and a majority of them) to significantly reverse Roe v Wade.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby Night Strike on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:27 pm

tzor wrote:
majorheadache876 wrote:“Conservative” Republican administration appointments have dominated the US Supreme Court since the infamous
Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton decisions that effectively legalized abortion-on-demand.


That's clearly not true. A few so called conservatives became liberal once on the court; many are in fact moderate. A number of conservatives never made it at all. Even then, considering that no appointment would ever consider going against the "tradition of the court" it would take even an extreme conservative (and a majority of them) to significantly reverse Roe v Wade.


It's only the ones who are supposed to be conservative constructionists who turn into progressives on the court. No one who Democrats nominate ever become constructionists. It's just another one of those arguments that the progressives have twisted and won due to the complicit media.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:20 pm

Night Strike wrote:It's only the ones who are supposed to be conservative constructionists who turn into progressives on the court. No one who Democrats nominate ever become constructionists. It's just another one of those arguments that the progressives have twisted and won due to the complicit media.


Bull. Sorry, but bull. The Supreme Court analyses the legalities, it doesn't consult the media to make its decisions, so a "complicit media" has nothing to do with it.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby Night Strike on Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:28 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Night Strike wrote:It's only the ones who are supposed to be conservative constructionists who turn into progressives on the court. No one who Democrats nominate ever become constructionists. It's just another one of those arguments that the progressives have twisted and won due to the complicit media.


Bull. Sorry, but bull. The Supreme Court analyses the legalities, it doesn't consult the media to make its decisions, so a "complicit media" has nothing to do with it.


No, it's the media that leads the massive outcries against nominees who are actually conservative, thereby preventing them from being put on the Supreme Court, whether it be Bork, Myers, or anyone in between. And when someone like Obama is in charge, they also lead the false charges of Republicans only existing to block every person the progressive wants....even though the facts show that the Top 5 Senators who have filibustered nominees are all Democrats.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:04 am

It is high time we start eliminating the media. Lets just bump the 2nd amendment up a spot.


--Andy
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:56 am

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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:59 am

thegreekdog wrote:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/03/18/beware_of_the_new_elites_117491.html


I generally agree with it, but crony capitalism is profitable for both political parties. Advertising messages against that status quo is politically suicidal at the moment, so how does one incentivize politicians to 'do the right thing'?
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:52 pm

Guillotines.


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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:12 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Guillotines.


--Andy


@ Washington, D.C.

"All in favor of the Guillotines Against Politicians, say Aye."

....

"All oppose, say Nay."


"NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY NAY"


Andy, we need a better name for the Guillotines program!
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:40 pm

How about Head Start? Hm, that's taken already...


--Andy
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:47 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/03/18/beware_of_the_new_elites_117491.html


I generally agree with it, but crony capitalism is profitable for both political parties. Advertising messages against that status quo is politically suicidal at the moment, so how does one incentivize politicians to 'do the right thing'?


Ah HA! But, I put it in both threads!
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby Gillipig on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:19 pm

There are fundamental flaws with the way politics works in general, I wouldn't say one particular party is so much more dysfunctional than the other, we're looking at two rotten apples but only pointing at one of them.
AoG for President of the World!!
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby tzor on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:01 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:It is high time we start eliminating the media. Lets just bump the 2nd amendment up a spot.


But we're REPUBLICANS, damn it. We just let natural selection and the free market do its proper work and function.

They will be gone any decade from now; mark my words.
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:24 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/03/18/beware_of_the_new_elites_117491.html


I generally agree with it, but crony capitalism is profitable for both political parties. Advertising messages against that status quo is politically suicidal at the moment, so how does one incentivize politicians to 'do the right thing'?


Ah HA! But, I put it in both threads!


I was thinking of posting the same response in both threads, but I didn't.

/cool story
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Re: Fundamental flaws in the Republican Party

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:51 pm

Gillipig wrote:There are fundamental flaws with the way politics works in general, I wouldn't say one particular party is so much more dysfunctional than the other, we're looking at two rotten apples but only pointing at one of them.


No, there's 2 threads.
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