Symmetry wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:Symmetry wrote:What is your enlightened understanding of rape?
Probably a good deal more than yours, given that I happen to have worked with victims, am female myself, etc. Rape is far less about "the act" than it is about sumission and control.
AND... my being female is pertinent to my job example also. You want to pretend something that doesn't exist. You want both to claim that slavery was worse than it was, though it was certainly bad enough as it was without exacerbating the issue, AND that Sally herself was less intelligent, less strong, less able to make decisions than the evidence shows.
You seem also to be under plenty of illusions about today's world. For example, you ignored my statement that one reason rape is considered such a henious crime is because it is not just "the act" and a "violation", but the reason that is so horrible is, partially because a women who has been raped is somehow less "valuable", less important to others. That, thankfully is changing, but that disdain for women who have been victimized is part of why women have so often not stepped forward to testify.
On the other side, sex was and is very much a tool by many women. I am just old enough to remember being asked , not entirely as a joke, if I was going to school to get my "Mrs.". And, the fact that I was NOT actually put me a bit down on the "pedestal", not up. I did not have it as rough as, say , my mother or grandmother did, but it was only when I got into high school that the idea of women taking a career was really and truly part of the "norm", and even then.. it was career AND a family. The career, not the family part were optional.
So, yeah, you can dismiss and ridicule the idea that Sally H. would have seen sleeping with Jefferson as a beneficial career move, one that by that society's standards she was well able to make. That is even IF, as you assert, she was 14 and not older when she engaged in sexual intercourse with Jefferson. If the other assertions are correct and she was older, then you truly don't have much grounds.
Your SOLE reasoning has nothing at all to do with the evidence or facts of this particular situation. You want to see only the label "slave" and assume that, based on that label you understand the entire situation. That, frankly is the very definition of prejudice -- something you claim to abhore.
Well it wasn't too long before the "She took advantage of him" argument came out. I note that you didn't give your definition.
Try reading, instead of assuming and stop twisting what I say to suit your agenda.
That you cannot even deal honestly in this debate is pretty much proof that you lack any stance.
I did not say she "took advantage of him." Nothing I have said makes Jefferson a victim, except of his times. I said that Sally might well have welcomed or encouraged the situation AND that your assumption of her being a naive and oppressed child is not necessarily the truth.