Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

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Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:58 am

stahrgazer wrote:In fact, "reliance on talking points rather than full facts," is probably a fundamental flaw in the Republican Party.


PLAYER57832 wrote:I blame both parties, but this thread is about the Republicans.


So... we're doing a new topic (fair and balanced!)

Item #1: Organizing for Action

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... n/1983287/

Organizing for Action is a non-partisan organization according to its executive director, Mr. Jon Carson).

Despite being "nonpartisan" it uses as its logo (for the "O") the Obama campaign's graphic. Additionally, I have received emails from Organizing for Action. I did not sign up for those messages, so how did I get them? Well, I wrote a letter to President Obama about 3 years ago and ended up on his campaign's email list. So clearly the OFA team has my email from that.

In any event, one of the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is that it lies.

As with the "Fundamental Flaws with the Republican Party" thread, please keep all references to the flaws of the other party out of this thread. Thanks.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:10 am




--Andy
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:30 am

2. Trying to Deep-Six Obamacare

But now that they feel its future is protected and it’s safe from repeal, Democrats are becoming more vocal about parts of the law that they want changed or eliminated — even kids’ dental coverage. Four Senate Democrats — Sens. Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken of Minnesota, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Joe Donnelly of Indiana — are co-sponsoring a Republican bill to repeal the law’s medical-device tax. Ten House Democrats are co-sponsoring a bill to repeal the law’s Independent Payment Advisory Board, a controversial panel that is designed to keep Medicare spending in check.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/a ... 88717.html


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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:20 am

I wonder if there are any big medical device companies in Minnesota, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

Minnesota - Meditronic Inc.
Pennsylvania - AmerisourceBergen Corporation
Indiana - Eli Lilly

PLAYER57832 wrote:More correctly, the Republicans want to cut anything that benefits average Americans, but not the things that benefit their big business cronies... and they will do this while proclaiming "family values" and "low taxes"... never mind that its their policies that turned our country into a deficit hog, at the expense of our futures.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:55 am

saxitoxin wrote:2. Trying to Deep-Six Obamacare

But now that they feel its future is protected and it’s safe from repeal, Democrats are becoming more vocal about parts of the law that they want changed or eliminated — even kids’ dental coverage. Four Senate Democrats — Sens. Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken of Minnesota, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Joe Donnelly of Indiana — are co-sponsoring a Republican bill to repeal the law’s medical-device tax. Ten House Democrats are co-sponsoring a bill to repeal the law’s Independent Payment Advisory Board, a controversial panel that is designed to keep Medicare spending in check.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/a ... 88717.html



Who doesn't like political compromise?
[/tongue-in-cheek]

This is one of the main problems with any position supporting public policy X. Public policies must go through this political process--where exemptions are made and the reasonable parts of the policy are resisted and sometimes removed (e.g. that advisory board, that medical-device tax).

This is one of many avenues where the favored policies of well-intended voters lead to bad outcomes.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby Night Strike on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:46 pm

Rep John Fleming R-LA: "President to House GOP: federal government is not a family; balancing budget not important"
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:52 pm

thegreekdog wrote:In any event, one of the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is that it lies.

As with the "Fundamental Flaws with the Republican Party" thread, please keep all references to the flaws of the other party out of this thread. Thanks.


People did not keep references to the flaws of the other party out of that thread.

We'll agree that a fundamental flaw with both the Dems and the Reps is that they lie.

As to your emails and such:
In legalities, that organization you are getting emails from is not a political party so it's not a lie to say they are not. It is fed emails from all over the dem party, no different than me sending a note to my Republican representatives and getting tons of pamphlets from Republican folks who aren't even in my district. A better comparison may be the info I get from "anti choice" folks even though I've never written them and they themselves are not a political party.

FURTHER.

If you want information that belongs in another thread to stay only in that thread, then you, yourself, should not be bringing another person's (my) quotes from that thread to this thread.

In that, you're demonstrating a frequent fundamental flaw found in that other party: Hypocrisy.
Last edited by stahrgazer on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:56 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:In any event, one of the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is that it lies.

As with the "Fundamental Flaws with the Republican Party" thread, please keep all references to the flaws of the other party out of this thread. Thanks.


People did not keep references to the flaws of the other party out of that thread.

We'll agree that a fundamental flaw with both the Dems and the Reps is that they lie.

As to your emails and such:
In legalities, that organization you are getting emails from is not a political party so it's not a lie to say they are not. It is fed emails from all over the dem party, no different than me sending a note to my Republican representatives and getting tons of pamphlets from Republican folks who aren't even in my district. A better comparison may be the info I get from "anti choice" folks even though I've never written them and they themselves are not a political party.


The term "partisan" is defined as follows: "a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially: one exhibiting blind, prejudiced and unreasoning allegiance."

I agree that your pro life (oh, sorry, anti-choice) emails are similar, but those emails are also partisan. Do your pro life (I mean, anti-choice) emails also have a logo of Mitt Romney's campaign?
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:57 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
The term "partisan" is defined as follows: "a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially: one exhibiting blind, prejudiced and unreasoning allegiance."

I agree that your pro life (oh, sorry, anti-choice) emails are similar, but those emails are also partisan. Do your pro life (I mean, anti-choice) emails also have a logo of Mitt Romney's campaign?


Some had Romney, prior to that, some had McCain/Palin


"blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance" are subjective. Those who agree with whatever the organization (any organization) spouts are not likely to agree the adherence is blind, prejudice, or unreasoning.

As an example, as I've told you before, I'm a Republican. As you can see, though, I'm hardly demonstrating "firm adherence" to the party line. I agree with some things and not others.

(I do NOT happen to agree that taking away a woman's right to choose what she does with her body and something that cannot function on its own outside of her own body should be a part of any political party's agenda.)
Last edited by stahrgazer on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:00 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:In any event, one of the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is that it lies.

As with the "Fundamental Flaws with the Republican Party" thread, please keep all references to the flaws of the other party out of this thread. Thanks.


People did not keep references to the flaws of the other party out of that thread.

We'll agree that a fundamental flaw with both the Dems and the Reps is that they lie.

As to your emails and such:
In legalities, that organization you are getting emails from is not a political party so it's not a lie to say they are not. It is fed emails from all over the dem party, no different than me sending a note to my Republican representatives and getting tons of pamphlets from Republican folks who aren't even in my district. A better comparison may be the info I get from "anti choice" folks even though I've never written them and they themselves are not a political party.


The term "partisan" is defined as follows: "a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially: one exhibiting blind, prejudiced and unreasoning allegiance."

I agree that your pro life (oh, sorry, anti-choice) emails are similar, but those emails are also partisan. Do your pro life (I mean, anti-choice) emails also have a logo of Mitt Romney's campaign?


Some had Romney, prior to that, some had McCain/Palin


Then they are partisan. Why do you think OFA is nonpartisan?

Issue advertisements are also partisan (for the most part) because they take one issue and support or denigrate that issue which happens to be the opposite of whatever the opposing candidate supports or opposes.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:03 pm

thegreekdog wrote:Then they are partisan. Why do you think OFA is nonpartisan?



Did I say that? Um. No. I didn't.

What I was trying to imply is that just because an organization is "partisan" to a political party, does not mean the Political Party itself, lied.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:11 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Then they are partisan. Why do you think OFA is nonpartisan?



Did I say that? Um. No. I didn't.

What I was trying to imply is that just because an organization is "partisan" to a political party, does not mean the Political Party itself, lied.


Ah, okay.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby Crazyirishman on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:22 pm

The fundamental flaw lies within the reality that we have parties, all they do is divide people.
Last edited by Crazyirishman on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby Night Strike on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:28 am

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Re: Fundamental Flaws with the Democratic Party

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:16 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:The fundamental flaw lies within the reality that we have parties, all they do is divide people.


People are already divided. There's a biblical story or two about why (Isaac and Abraham, Babylon, etc.)
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