336 Million

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Re: 336 Million

Postby premio53 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:38 am

_sabotage_ wrote:Abortion, like theft, murder, prostitution and drugs, is going to happen, whether legal or illegal. Suggesting that it is against God doesn't mean shit. Most people believe in God at their convenience, if ever. Making it illegal just increases the risk involved.

Forced abortion is another story. If you would like to quote from the Bible, perhaps you should start at the top: Do onto others as you would have others do onto you.

You wouldn't want others to force their beliefs and their decisions on you and in doing so you are breaking the law which governs all others. So stop being a dick. You have your opinions, don't impose them on others and don't call others murderers for disagreeing you fucking hypocrite.

Tell that to an innocent unborn being ripped apart in his mother's womb by greedy doctors and thrown away like a piece of trash!

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Re: 336 Million

Postby _sabotage_ on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:01 am

A recent case in Beijing:

A 20 year-old pregnant girl gave birth to a boy in the back of a tradesman's motorized cart this week. She then covered him with some litter found in the back and abandoned him naked in the cold. The tradesman found him an hour later and the child was dead within six hours. Good thing he wasn't aborted, we wouldn't be able to prosecute the highly intelligent mother for murder.

I am a parent and would do anything for my son. A few years ago, my wife came down with something and received some medication at the hospital. A few days later, we realized she wasn't sick but pregnant. We asked about the medication and were told we would have to abort the child due to the medicine that she was given. I was furious, a married woman in the prime of her child bearing years was given medicine that would utterly ruin the fetus without consideration that the symptoms could be pregnancy. If we hadn't aborted that child, then we wouldn't have our son. You can make the case that we should have proceeded with the pregnancy regardless of the outcome, but this desire to do anything for your child may include making the decision to protect him/her and provide the best possible life for them by ending it. You may think it isn't our decision to make, that it was a sacred God given existence and you may be right. It is me that will face that, and not you. You can spend your time explaining why you tried to enforce your beliefs on others and I can explain why I ended a life prematurely.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Johnny Rockets on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:59 am

tkr4lf wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:(although this is largely hypothetical as I do not intend to have children).

That's a real shame. You should father many, many children. You know, do your part in balancing out all the stupid people that shouldn't breed.


Stupid people like a great Evangelist who continued to breed like a rabbit even though he's dooming each subsequent offspring to a life of poverty and the perils that go with it?

I fully agree. Free abortions under 12 weeks. Free sterilization for anyone that wants. Free birth control for any that asks with no questions or critique.

We have fucked this planet, raped the oceans, and have way too many mouths to feed.
Try to restrain the population with as much morality as possible, but we need to lighten the ship or we are ALL going to fucking starve to death. Well....that is if we are lucky.
Nothing breeds civil unrest and war like a famine.

Can you really believe that the world would be a better place with an additional 336 million mouths to feed?????


JRock


Oh yeah.......and throw these guys a few bucks if you can afford it.
They are doing more to help eliminate social decay and child suffering than anyone else I know.
http://www.projectprevention.org/
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Re: 336 Million

Postby patches70 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:22 am

Save the World and off yourself JR! I can think of no other act that could be more selfless. After all, you've participated in "fucking the planet" and raping the oceans and you are yet another mouth to feed. We have to lighten the ship after all, might as well start with you.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:39 am

patches70 wrote:Save the World and off yourself JR! I can think of no other act that could be more selfless. After all, you've participated in "fucking the planet" and raping the oceans and you are yet another mouth to feed. We have to lighten the ship after all, might as well start with you.


The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

I'm nominating patches too, and the rest of us. We'll just make the voluntary involuntary as well.


--Andy
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Re: 336 Million

Postby patches70 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:11 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
patches70 wrote:Save the World and off yourself JR! I can think of no other act that could be more selfless. After all, you've participated in "fucking the planet" and raping the oceans and you are yet another mouth to feed. We have to lighten the ship after all, might as well start with you.


The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

I'm nominating patches too, and the rest of us. We'll just make the voluntary involuntary as well.


--Andy


haha! Nice organization. I have no qualms with it. So long as things are voluntary.
I'm even all for sterilization, birth control and if people want abortions, I won't stop them. But contrary to what JR seems to think, there is no such thing as "free" abortions, birth control or abortions. No one should be involuntarily forced to have such things, nor forced to perform such things, nor forced to pay for such things for other people.

Are there abortion doctors who will perform abortions and sterilizations for no payment at all?
Are the medical supplies required produced and then given away at no cost?
Are birth control methods (excluding abstinence) produced and have no associated cost to them?

You want an abortion, pay for it yourself, don't force other people to pay for it.
Birth control, sterilizations, go for, just don't take food and resources from my mouth to pay for it.
It's wasteful.
Can't afford such things? Find people like JR and organizations like Andy's who will gladly contribute to such a cause. But don't force any who do not wish to participate to contribute.

Indeed, there is no such things as "free stuff". Someone has to pay. Thus, I say JR should voluntarily pay for abortions for anyone who wants them and stay out of everyone else's lives and wallets. I can think of only one more selfless act.

Me, I'm selfish. Sue me.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:36 pm

chang50 wrote:Hey Mets,I don't entirely agree with all of your thesis but I just wanted to say you are very brave to present such controversial ideas on this forum knowing the flak you would receive from the usual quarters...


Thank you. I firmly believe in what I say, and I think that anyone who has strong opinions on their philosophy should not keep it to themselves just because people might not like them as much. Ideas are too important to stay hidden.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Night Strike on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:43 pm

oVo wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
The Story: The Chinese government recently admitted that over the last four decades the country has aborted 336 million unborn children, many of them forcibly.
China and India both have populations that exceed one billion people.

It sounds like contraceptive methods haven't worked out very well there and require a renewed emphasis towards birth control. Your focus here is on the abortion of unwanted pregnancies that you refer to as "unborn children," consider the tragedy of children actually born in China who are abandoned on the side of the road because they are female.


They're only unwanted because of governmental mandates of limiting families to 1 child.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby john9blue on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:55 pm

Frigidus wrote:For the record, Metsfanmax does not represent the views of everyone in favor of allowing abortion. Just thought I should point that out.


you are correct, most pro-choice advocates are not intellectually honest or capable enough to take their views to their logical conclusion (that newborn children and often other types of fully-grown humans should be able to be murdered)
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Gillipig on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:36 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:I am sure that many more than 336 million potential persons have been murdered by tissues. Time to sue Kleenex!

I've probably killed 336 million potential lives myself.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby crispybits on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:13 pm

Seeing as how that's one fap (about 300 million per go for a healthy male) I'm willing to bet every person on here has killed more than that (even the girls)
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Frigidus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:23 pm

john9blue wrote:
Frigidus wrote:For the record, Metsfanmax does not represent the views of everyone in favor of allowing abortion. Just thought I should point that out.


you are correct, most pro-choice advocates are not intellectually honest or capable enough to take their views to their logical conclusion (that newborn children and often other types of fully-grown humans should be able to be murdered)


Much like how most pro-life advocates can't formulate logical arguments without utilizing hyperbole and strawmen.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:41 pm

john9blue wrote:
Frigidus wrote:For the record, Metsfanmax does not represent the views of everyone in favor of allowing abortion. Just thought I should point that out.


you are correct, most pro-choice advocates are not intellectually honest or capable enough to take their views to their logical conclusion (that newborn children and often other types of fully-grown humans should be able to be murdered)


So how does that reductio ad absurdum go?
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Re: 336 Million

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:07 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:Hey Mets,I don't entirely agree with all of your thesis but I just wanted to say you are very brave to present such controversial ideas on this forum knowing the flak you would receive from the usual quarters...


Thank you. I firmly believe in what I say, and I think that anyone who has strong opinions on their philosophy should not keep it to themselves just because people might not like them as much. Ideas are too important to stay hidden.


Let me add my appreciation. Despite that I vehemently disagree with your position, I respect it and won't denigrate your for it.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby _sabotage_ on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:09 am

Well Mets I have and will. I think that you are a pussy, a hypocrite and a false believer. You may think it's cool to call people murderers, insist that it is heaven proclaimed and demand to be the decider for us all, but you sure as shit aren't. You read the Bible in a way to support your own views and wash your hands of the rest, you make yourself open to political manipulation by being a single issue voter and leave us stuck with the Ws of the world, you criminalize millions and hope to enforce hardship on millions more. Eat a dick. Choke on it.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Gillipig on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:05 am

crispybits wrote:Seeing as how that's one fap (about 300 million per go for a healthy male) I'm willing to bet every person on here has killed more than that (even the girls)

Make it 300 billion potential lives then! Damn, never knew I would put Hitler to shame in the number of caused deaths category.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:15 am

_sabotage_ wrote:Well Mets I have and will. I think that you are a pussy, a hypocrite and a false believer. You may think it's cool to call people murderers, insist that it is heaven proclaimed and demand to be the decider for us all, but you sure as shit aren't. You read the Bible in a way to support your own views and wash your hands of the rest, you make yourself open to political manipulation by being a single issue voter and leave us stuck with the Ws of the world, you criminalize millions and hope to enforce hardship on millions more. Eat a dick. Choke on it.


I am not sure where this came from. I am an atheist and quite liberal.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby _sabotage_ on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:38 am

My bad, meant premio.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:54 am

_sabotage_ wrote:My bad, meant premio.


Oh. Carry on.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:09 am

premio53 wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:Abortion, like theft, murder, prostitution and drugs, is going to happen, whether legal or illegal. Suggesting that it is against God doesn't mean shit. Most people believe in God at their convenience, if ever. Making it illegal just increases the risk involved.

Forced abortion is another story. If you would like to quote from the Bible, perhaps you should start at the top: Do onto others as you would have others do onto you.

You wouldn't want others to force their beliefs and their decisions on you and in doing so you are breaking the law which governs all others. So stop being a dick. You have your opinions, don't impose them on others and don't call others murderers for disagreeing you fucking hypocrite.

Tell that to an innocent unborn being ripped apart in his mother's womb by greedy doctors and thrown away like a piece of trash!

In China.. you have a point.

In the US, Europe.. you are an ignorant jerk who thinks a little bit of knowledge gives you the right to pass judgement on people and situations you are just too damned LAZY to fully understand or even think about. And don't you DARE claim that you are representing Christ with your ignorant Blather.

Posting stupid pictures just shows your laziness. Real honest debaters look up real facts, don't cherry pick or use stupid attempts to shock. No one ELSE here is ignorant of what abortion is.. YOU are ignorant of why someone, anyone would ever choose that option. The TRUTH Is no one sane really does it if they feel they have other, better options.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby premio53 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:47 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
premio53 wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:Abortion, like theft, murder, prostitution and drugs, is going to happen, whether legal or illegal. Suggesting that it is against God doesn't mean shit. Most people believe in God at their convenience, if ever. Making it illegal just increases the risk involved.

Forced abortion is another story. If you would like to quote from the Bible, perhaps you should start at the top: Do onto others as you would have others do onto you.

You wouldn't want others to force their beliefs and their decisions on you and in doing so you are breaking the law which governs all others. So stop being a dick. You have your opinions, don't impose them on others and don't call others murderers for disagreeing you fucking hypocrite.

Tell that to an innocent unborn being ripped apart in his mother's womb by greedy doctors and thrown away like a piece of trash!

In China.. you have a point.

In the US, Europe.. you are an ignorant jerk who thinks a little bit of knowledge gives you the right to pass judgement on people and situations you are just too damned LAZY to fully understand or even think about. And don't you DARE claim that you are representing Christ with your ignorant Blather.

Posting stupid pictures just shows your laziness. Real honest debaters look up real facts, don't cherry pick or use stupid attempts to shock. No one ELSE here is ignorant of what abortion is.. YOU are ignorant of why someone, anyone would ever choose that option. The TRUTH Is no one sane really does it if they feel they have other, better options.

The fact of the matter is most people don't give a damn about the killing of innocent unborn babies. As I said once before if you can kill someone because they are too young then you can kill someone because they are too old, or to too black or to politically undesirable. Taken to its logical conclusion Met has a point. At least he is an honest despicable human being.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby crispybits on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:06 am

If a man stabs a 9 month pregnant woman and kills her, and the abandons the body so that it's not found for a while so the baby dies too, is he tried for one count of murder or two?
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Re: 336 Million

Postby premio53 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:23 am

crispybits wrote:If a man stabs a 9 month pregnant woman and kills her, and the abandons the body so that it's not found for a while so the baby dies too, is he tried for one count of murder or two?

In Nazi Germany the definition of murder was changed so that Jews were not legally human and therefore had no human rights. You can change the laws any way you wish but is will not absolve you of guilt.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:32 am

premio53 wrote:
crispybits wrote:If a man stabs a 9 month pregnant woman and kills her, and the abandons the body so that it's not found for a while so the baby dies too, is he tried for one count of murder or two?

In Nazi Germany the definition of murder was changed so that Jews were not legally human and therefore had no human rights. You can change the laws any way you wish but is will not absolve you of guilt.


Do you have a source for that claim? Jews in Nazi Germany were definitely stripped of basically all civil and political rights, but I'm not aware of any change that made it generally legal to murder a Jewish person at that time or that declared them as explicitly not human.
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Re: 336 Million

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:46 am

premio53 wrote: The fact of the matter is most people don't give a damn about the killing of innocent unborn babies

That you actually believe this is pretty firm proof that you are utterly and completley ignorant.

You have a choice. You can act as a CHRISTIAN, the one you claim to be and act like Christ, actually take pains to truly understand the situations (and reading through my posts in the abortion threads will give you a start... but only a start). OR you can continue to act as the ignorant bully you are now.

Per metafax's "conclusions" they are his, a very extreme view. If you really had true knowledge of this subject you would FIRST understand that.
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