For those concerned about US debt

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For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:08 pm

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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:17 pm

It took me 4 minutes.

The gist: "We don't know what the f*ck is going to happen in the future. It could be all rosy if we have great growth or it could go further to shit".
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:29 pm

No, the giist is that the CBO is full of ... sh*t, so ignore them.

The problem? They don't get into anything about WHY those figures differ, at the root, or the many outside factors that will have very critical impacts.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:39 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:No, the giist is that the CBO is full of ... sh*t, so ignore them.


Exactly, but the people who won't ignore them are the ones who should. :D
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby rdsrds2120 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:06 am

We have to hide this thread before Scotty gets back, haha.

BMO
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby greenoaks on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:16 am

rdsrds2120 wrote:We have to hide this thread before Scotty gets back, haha.

BMO

or keep the thread and don't let Scotty back
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:43 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:No, the giist is that the CBO is full of ... sh*t, so ignore them.


Exactly, but the people who won't ignore them are the ones who should. :D

No, the folks who want to criticize need to come up with better data --- or at least pay attention to what the data actually says instead of what they want to claim it says..

And I don't agree that CBO data is garbage, its just limited in its scope.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:35 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:No, the giist is that the CBO is full of ... sh*t, so ignore them.


Exactly, but the people who won't ignore them are the ones who should. :D

No, the folks who want to criticize need to come up with better data --- or at least pay attention to what the data actually says instead of what they want to claim it says..

And I don't agree that CBO data is garbage, its just limited in its scope.


Oh, sure, can't say anything until you spend millions of dollars collecting original data. Makes total sense.

I'd love for you to expand on that.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:02 pm

greenoaks wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:We have to hide this thread before Scotty gets back, haha.

BMO

or keep the thread and don't let Scotty back


+1haha
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Fruitcake on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:09 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:58 am

For those concerned about US debt, don't worry. The Fed's partial audit revealed we have made more than 16 trillion in unauthorized loans to banks far and wide. Worry that your savings will be devalued and buying power dashed.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Gillipig on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:44 am

Create government financed companies manufacturing the things you have China make for you now, and grant them subsidies for sale in the U.S, or, lower the wages until you can out-compete China. That's basically the only two options you have if you want to get back your industry jobs. Take your pick.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:05 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:No, the giist is that the CBO is full of ... sh*t, so ignore them.


Exactly, but the people who won't ignore them are the ones who should. :D

No, the folks who want to criticize need to come up with better data --- or at least pay attention to what the data actually says instead of what they want to claim it says..

And I don't agree that CBO data is garbage, its just limited in its scope.


Oh, sure, can't say anything until you spend millions of dollars collecting original data. Makes total sense.

I'd love for you to expand on that.

Try paying attention to natural resource data, to numbers and kinds of disability claims... and to the (lack of) money being invested in education, projections for numbers of technically qualified graduates.... not to mention lack of funding into true alternatives to our oil/natural gas/coal based economy.

(just to name a very few points).

The CBO data is correct, but has to be taken in contexts. (note the "s"). Most of the above criticism is about objecting to projections to a point are already defined as being inaccurate .. thr trouble is those criticizing don't have any better data, they just want to criticize.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:07 am

Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?

He cannot give the real answer, because the real answer lies in understanding that the very basis of any economy is its natural resources... and that most projections in that forum have been grossly misrepresented.

Also, too many economic projections try to hold things like technological fixes as either assumed or irrelevant, without considering how those fixes really come about.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:16 pm

Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?


Haha, to stop this from occurring?

Oh wow, the USG would have to cut spending significantly--especially on Medicare and Medicaid. Increasing taxes allows them to continue their deficit spending (because they're politicians), so taxes won't work. The 'cost-savings' from Obamacare look more imaginative with every year--as new information pops up which they failed to predict.

They need to cut spending, but the politicians lack the willingness and their constituents really would be upset if all that ill-gotten goods was taken from them (e.g. see Player, Mets, JB, Fitz, the 'liberals', haha).


The FED would have to stop pushing down interest rates, which make the costs of government borrowing lower--which allows the politicians to continue low-cost deficit spending while making half-assed attempts to lower debt and spending.



If none of the above happens, then things may get worse sooner.
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:17 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?

He cannot give the real answer, because the real answer lies in understanding that the very basis of any economy is its natural resources... and that most projections in that forum have been grossly misrepresented.

Also, too many economic projections try to hold things like technological fixes as either assumed or irrelevant, without considering how those fixes really come about.


You've been failing to really provide any details of this new Rant of yours, so we can ignore it.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:36 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?

He cannot give the real answer, because the real answer lies in understanding that the very basis of any economy is its natural resources... and that most projections in that forum have been grossly misrepresented.

Also, too many economic projections try to hold things like technological fixes as either assumed or irrelevant, without considering how those fixes really come about.


You've been failing to really provide any details of this new Rant of yours, so we can ignore it.

Like I said ... you cannot give a real answer.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Fruitcake on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:40 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?

He cannot give the real answer, because the real answer lies in understanding that the very basis of any economy is its natural resources... and that most projections in that forum have been grossly misrepresented.

Also, too many economic projections try to hold things like technological fixes as either assumed or irrelevant, without considering how those fixes really come about.


You've been failing to really provide any details of this new Rant of yours, so we can ignore it.

Like I said ... you cannot give a real answer.


Well, to be precise, I did not request a 'real' answer per se. I asked BBS what he thinks should happen to stop this from occurring. No matter, he has answered my question and given me food for thought.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:01 pm

What about the notorious ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra- .... ultra-ultra ... ultra-right-wing radio network, NPR and the super-super-super-super ... super ... super-fascist magazine The Atlantic?

Disability Insurance: America's $124 Billion Secret Welfare Program

Social Security's disability insurance program, which over 20 years has quietly morphed into one of the largest, yet least talked about, pieces of the social safety net. Since the early 1990s, the number of former workers receiving payments under it has more than doubled to about 8.5 million, as shown in Planet Money's graph below. More than five percent of all eligible adults are now on the rolls, up from around 3 percent twenty years ago. Add in children and spouses who also get checks, and the grand tally comes to 11.5 million.

Are disabilities just becoming more common? According to economists such as MIT's David Autor, the evidence says no. Instead, it seems two things have happened: Qualifying for disability got easier, and finding work got harder.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... am/274302/
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby patches70 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:41 pm

saxitoxin wrote:What about the notorious ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra- .... ultra-ultra ... ultra-right-wing radio network, NPR and the super-super-super-super ... super ... super-fascist magazine The Atlantic?
Disability Insurance: America's $124 Billion Secret Welfare Program

Social Security's disability insurance program, which over 20 years has quietly morphed into one of the largest, yet least talked about, pieces of the social safety net. Since the early 1990s, the number of former workers receiving payments under it has more than doubled to about 8.5 million, as shown in Planet Money's graph below. More than five percent of all eligible adults are now on the rolls, up from around 3 percent twenty years ago. Add in children and spouses who also get checks, and the grand tally comes to 11.5 million.

Are disabilities just becoming more common? According to economists such as MIT's David Autor, the evidence says no. Instead, it seems two things have happened: Qualifying for disability got easier, and finding work got harder.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... am/274302/


Whoa whoa whoa! What do they mean "finding work got harder?" According to Player all the job numbers are back to where they are supposed to be before the crash.

Player wrote:After 2 years, the employment rates, hiring rates, etc go back to at least what they were before.


And before the crash it was economic Goldilocks as the pundits and government officials tried to make believe.

You mean after some $6 trillion of new debt, stimulus, bailouts, legislative fixes, overhauling of healthcare, that we are still screwed?
Oh, never mind, deficits don't matter any more. Why worry about government debt? We can just print more money! Wheeee!!!
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby Lootifer on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:56 pm

saxitoxin wrote:What about the notorious ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra- .... ultra-ultra ... ultra-right-wing radio network, NPR and the super-super-super-super ... super ... super-fascist magazine The Atlantic?

Disability Insurance: America's $124 Billion Secret Welfare Program

Social Security's disability insurance program, which over 20 years has quietly morphed into one of the largest, yet least talked about, pieces of the social safety net. Since the early 1990s, the number of former workers receiving payments under it has more than doubled to about 8.5 million, as shown in Planet Money's graph below. More than five percent of all eligible adults are now on the rolls, up from around 3 percent twenty years ago. Add in children and spouses who also get checks, and the grand tally comes to 11.5 million.

Are disabilities just becoming more common? According to economists such as MIT's David Autor, the evidence says no. Instead, it seems two things have happened: Qualifying for disability got easier, and finding work got harder.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... am/274302/

Hehehe, I do love a very simple rhetoric on what is a very complicated scenario.

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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:00 pm

Lootifer wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:What about the notorious ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra- .... ultra-ultra ... ultra-right-wing radio network, NPR and the super-super-super-super ... super ... super-fascist magazine The Atlantic?

Disability Insurance: America's $124 Billion Secret Welfare Program

Social Security's disability insurance program, which over 20 years has quietly morphed into one of the largest, yet least talked about, pieces of the social safety net. Since the early 1990s, the number of former workers receiving payments under it has more than doubled to about 8.5 million, as shown in Planet Money's graph below. More than five percent of all eligible adults are now on the rolls, up from around 3 percent twenty years ago. Add in children and spouses who also get checks, and the grand tally comes to 11.5 million.

Are disabilities just becoming more common? According to economists such as MIT's David Autor, the evidence says no. Instead, it seems two things have happened: Qualifying for disability got easier, and finding work got harder.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... am/274302/

Hehehe, I do love a very simple rhetoric on what is a very complicated scenario.

Gogo gadget american politics democracy!.


YOU'RE A COMPLICATED SCENARIO, BRO!
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 pm

More reason to dislike growth.

As long as the US economy is in a tailspin, the likelihood that it gets an extremist government increases. I am sick of Repocrats. Give us extremism to the extreme.

And then crush the Habsburgs.
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Re: For those concerned about US debt

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Fruitcake wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Also, correcting for the rosy predictions using modest assumptions reveals terrible outcomes which may occur 20 years sooner than the CBO predicted.


I may be wrong but it all looks pretty imminent.

BBS, what do you think should happen to stop this from occurring?

He cannot give the real answer, because the real answer lies in understanding that the very basis of any economy is its natural resources... and that most projections in that forum have been grossly misrepresented.

Also, too many economic projections try to hold things like technological fixes as either assumed or irrelevant, without considering how those fixes really come about.


You've been failing to really provide any details of this new Rant of yours, so we can ignore it.

Like I said ... you cannot give a real answer.


Well, to be precise, I did not request a 'real' answer per se. I asked BBS what he thinks should happen to stop this from occurring. No matter, he has answered my question and given me food for thought.

Yeah, and my answer was not appropriate in this case, either.


That said, cutting medical costs really means placing limits on care by some entity other htan insurance companies. Its not folks like myself standing in the way there, its the right wing who wants no limit on keeping "grandma" alive and is against even basic sex education in schools.


My point on the rest is just that if we don't have an good alternative energy source or a handle on the global climate change issues, likely water as well... none of the above will matter.
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