Marriage Equality

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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:43 pm

daddy1gringo wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Whichever arguments are similar, I discard both--if one has been already refuted (which is why analogies are useful). If dissimilar, then I let the opposition explain. Daddy1gringo refused, so he's left with the reductio ad absurdum until he can muster a good argument against gay marriage.
What a joke. I clearly took up your challenge, made the substitution as you requested, showing clearly how the substitution didn't work. It's not my fault that you continued to hold your hand over your eyes and declare exactly the opposite of what was clearly there. The statements, with the substitution, made absolutely no sense. Bigots having a problem with people of different races marrying has nothing to do with trying to re-define the very nature of marriage.


I haven't followed any of your discussion with BBS. However, being a "bigot" does not at all necessarily relate to race. One can be a bigot against any type of group.

(Note: I am NOT calling you a bigot, just disagreeing with what appears to be your use of the term.)
Fair enough. The discussion concerned an article I posted on page 3 (March 31 at 3-something pm) I'd be interested to hear your input on both the article and the subsequent discussion between me and BBS.


I probably can't contribute to that particular discussion very coherently, as I would only be reading half of it.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby daddy1gringo on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:28 pm

Woodruff wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Whichever arguments are similar, I discard both--if one has been already refuted (which is why analogies are useful). If dissimilar, then I let the opposition explain. Daddy1gringo refused, so he's left with the reductio ad absurdum until he can muster a good argument against gay marriage.
What a joke. I clearly took up your challenge, made the substitution as you requested, showing clearly how the substitution didn't work. It's not my fault that you continued to hold your hand over your eyes and declare exactly the opposite of what was clearly there. The statements, with the substitution, made absolutely no sense. Bigots having a problem with people of different races marrying has nothing to do with trying to re-define the very nature of marriage.


I haven't followed any of your discussion with BBS. However, being a "bigot" does not at all necessarily relate to race. One can be a bigot against any type of group.

(Note: I am NOT calling you a bigot, just disagreeing with what appears to be your use of the term.)
Fair enough. The discussion concerned an article I posted on page 3 (March 31 at 3-something pm) I'd be interested to hear your input on both the article and the subsequent discussion between me and BBS.


I probably can't contribute to that particular discussion very coherently, as I would only be reading half of it.
OK, I've never "foe"ed anyone so I'm not sure how that works. Anyway, I'm not the one who made the comparison. Check out the article, if you will. BBS was the one who claimed that you could substitute "interracial" for "same sex" in the author's statements, and it would show his arguments to be bigoted. I took him up on the challenge, made the substitution, and I stand by that it showed exactly the opposite. In any event, the article, written by a gay man, is thought-provoking, and I think you would enjoy reading it.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:56 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Sounds pretty bigoted to me.

Instead of "same-sex," insert "interracial" and tell me if his post is not at all bigoted.



Race and gender are not the same thing. They are separate things.

That argument is about as valid as "Instead of same sex, insert ""pedophile""......


Ask Sym about making comparisons and how that all works.


no thanks! I'm done with him, as he as already turned his Thomas Jefferson thread into a Phatscotty thread and the basic facts of the situation cannot even be allowed for discussion.

I understand why people try to make this analogy, but it doesn't work for one important reason. Even when there was a fuss in a few states about interracial marriage, it was still about marriage concerning one male and one female. Nobody was trying to redefine marriage based on gender, and interracial marriages have existed all over the world for thousands of years.

Marriage was not the issue, racism was, and it was a problem in many areas, not just marriage.


It's amazing to me some people who claim to be for "small government" don't find it odd to try to squeeze the government into our bedrooms.

For you to be consistent, Phatscotty, you would have to completely stop being against Marriage Equality. Instead, you should SOLELY arguing in favor of getting the government out of marriage entirely (tax breaks, legalities, etc...). I know you have put forward that position, but in order to be consistent, that would have to be your ONLY position, not this "against Marriage Equality" bullshit that goes entirely against your claims of being in favor of "small government".


?

Is your lack of a response a sign that you're no longer making the "I'm for small government" claim?
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:00 pm

daddy1gringo wrote:Interesting article:

http://www.gospelherald.com/article/opi ... VYRU1fz4Ug

I'm Gay and I Oppose Same-Sex Marriage
Doug Mainwaring

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“I know in my heart that man is good, that what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” These words, spoken by Ronald Reagan in 1991, are framed on the wall above my desk. As a gay man, I’ve adopted them as my own, as I’ve entered the national discussion on same-sex marriage.

I wholeheartedly support civil unions for gay and lesbian couples, but I am opposed to same-sex marriage. Because activists have made marriage, rather than civil unions, their goal, I am viewed by many as a self-loathing, traitorous gay. So be it. I prefer to think of myself as a reasoning, intellectually honest human being.

The notion of same-sex marriage is implausible, yet political correctness has made stating the obvious a risky business. Genderless marriage is not marriage at all. It is something else entirely.

Opposition to same-sex marriage is characterized in the media, at best, as clinging to “old-fashioned” religious beliefs and traditions, and at worst, as homophobia and hatred.

I’ve always been careful to avoid using religion or appeals to tradition as I’ve approached this topic. And with good reason: Neither religion nor tradition has played a significant role in forming my stance. But reason and experience certainly have.

Learning from Experience

As a young man, I wasn’t strongly inclined toward marriage or fatherhood, because I knew only homosexual desire.

I first recognized my strong yearning for men at age eight, when my parents took me to see The Sound of Music. While others marveled at the splendor of the Swiss Alps displayed on the huge Cinerama screen, I marveled at the uniformed, blond-haired Rolfe, who was seventeen going on eighteen. That proclivity, once awakened, never faded.

During college and throughout my twenties, I had many close friends who were handsome, athletic, and intelligent, with terrific personalities. I longed to have an intimate relationship with any and all of them. However, I enjoyed something far greater, something which surpassed carnality in every way: philia (the love between true friends)—a love unappreciated by so many because eros is promoted in its stead.

I wouldn’t have traded the quality of my relationships with any of these guys for an opportunity to engage in sex. No regrets. In fact, I always felt like the luckiest man on the planet. Denial didn't diminish or impoverish my life. It made my life experience richer.

Philia love between men is far better, far stronger, and far more fulfilling than erotic love can ever be. But society now promotes the lowest form of love between men while sabotaging the higher forms. Gay culture continues to promote the sexualization of all (viewing one’s self and other males primarily as sexual beings), while proving itself nearly bankrupt when it comes to fostering any other aspect of male/male relationships.

When all my friends began to marry, I began to seriously consider marriage for the first time. The motive of avoiding social isolation may not have been the best, but it was the catalyst that changed the trajectory of my life. Even though I had to repress certain sexual desires, I found marriage to be extremely rewarding.

My future bride and I first met while singing in a youth choir. By the time I popped the question, we had become the very best of friends. “Soul mates” is the term we used to describe each other.

After a couple of years of diligently trying to conceive, doctors informed us we were infertile, so we sought to adopt. That became a long, arduous, heartbreaking process. We ultimately gave up. I had mixed emotions—disappointment tempered by relief.

Out of the blue, a couple of years after we resigned ourselves to childlessness, we were given the opportunity to adopt.

A great shock came the day after we brought our son home from the adoption agency. While driving home for lunch, I was suddenly overcome with such emotion that I had to pull the car off to the side of the road. Never in my life had I experienced such pure, distilled joy and sense of purpose. I kept repeating, “I’m a dad,” over and over again. Nothing else mattered. I knew exactly where I fit in within this huge universe. When we brought home his brother nearly two years later, I was prepared: I could not wait to take him up in my arms and declare our kinship and my unconditional love and irrevocable responsibility for him.

Neither religion nor tradition turned me into a dedicated father. It was something wonderful from within—a great strength that has only grown with time. A complete surprise of the human spirit. In this way and many others, marriage—my bond with the mother of my children—has made me a much better person, a person I had no idea I had the capacity to become.

Intellectual Honesty and Surprise Conclusions

Unfortunately, a few years later my marriage ended—a pain known too easily by too many. At this point, the divorce allowed me to explore my homosexuality for the first time in my life.

At first, I felt liberated. I dated some great guys, and was in a couple of long-term relationships. Over several years, intellectual honesty led me to some unexpected conclusions: (1) Creating a family with another man is not completely equal to creating a family with a woman, and (2) denying children parents of both genders at home is an objective evil. Kids need and yearn for both.

It took some doing, but after ten years of divorce, we began to pull our family back together. We have been under one roof for over two years now. Our kids are happier and better off in so many ways. My ex-wife, our kids, and I recently celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas together and agreed these were the best holidays ever.

Because of my predilections, we deny our own sexual impulses. Has this led to depressing, claustrophobic repression? No. We enjoy each other’s company immensely. It has actually led to psychological health and a flourishing of our family. Did we do this for the sake of tradition? For the sake of religion? No. We did it because reason led us to resist selfish impulses and to seek the best for our children.

And wonderfully, she and I continue to regard each other as “soul mates” now, more than ever.

Over the last couple of years, I’ve found our decision to rebuild our family ratified time after time. One day as I turned to climb the stairs I saw my sixteen-year-old son walk past his mom as she sat reading in the living room. As he did, he paused and stooped down to kiss her and give her a hug, and then continued on. With two dads in the house, this little moment of warmth and tenderness would never have occurred. My varsity-track-and-football-playing son and I can give each other a bear hug or a pat on the back, but the kiss thing is never going to happen. To be fully formed, children need to be free to generously receive from and express affection to parents of both genders. Genderless marriages deny this fullness.

There are perhaps a hundred different things, small and large, that are negotiated between parents and kids every week. Moms and dads interact differently with their children. To give kids two moms or two dads is to withhold from them someone whom they desperately need and deserve in order to be whole and happy. It is to permanently etch “deprivation” on their hearts.

Rich Versus Diminished Lives

Sexuality is fluid for many, and much more complex than many want to acknowledge. Gay and straight activists alike pretend this isn’t true in order to fortify their positions. If they fail to maintain that mirage, fundraising for their organizations might dry up, as would the requests for television and radio interviews. Yet the “B” in the middle of “LGBT” acknowledges an important reality concerning our human sexuality.
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Here’s a very sad fact of life that never gets portrayed on Glee or Modern Family: I find that men I know who have left their wives as they’ve come out of the closet often lead diminished, and in some cases nearly bankrupt, lives—socially, familially, emotionally, and intellectually. They adjust their entire view of the world and their role within it in order to accommodate what has become the dominant aspect of their lives: their homosexuality. In doing so, they trade rich lives for one-dimensional lives. Yet this is what our post-modern world has taught us to do. I went along with it for a long while, but slowly turned back when I witnessed my life shrinking and not growing.

What Now?

In our day, prejudice against gays is just a very faint shadow of what it once was. But the abolition of prejudice against gays does not necessarily mean that same-sex marriage is inevitable or optimal. There are other avenues available, none of which demands immediate, sweeping, transformational legislation or court judgments.

We are in the middle of a fierce battle that is no longer about rights. It is about a single word, “marriage.”

Two men or two women together is, in truth, nothing like a man and a woman creating a life and a family together. Same-sex relationships are certainly very legitimate, rewarding pursuits, leading to happiness for many, but they are wholly different in experience and nature.

Gay and lesbian activists, and more importantly, the progressives urging them on, seek to redefine marriage in order to achieve an ideological agenda that ultimately seeks to undefine families as nothing more than one of an array of equally desirable “social units,” and thus open the door to the increase of government’s role in our lives.

And while same-sex marriage proponents suggest that the government should perhaps just stay out of their private lives, the fact is, now that children are being engineered for gay and lesbian couples, a process that involves multiple other adults who have potential legal custody claims on these children, the potential for government’s involvement in these same-sex marriage households is staggering.

Solomon only had to split the baby in two. In the future, judges may have to decide how to split children into three, four, or five equal pieces. In Florida, a judge recently ordered that the birth certificate of a child must show a total of three parents—a lesbian couple and a gay man (the sperm-providing hairdresser of one of the lesbian moms). Expect much more of this to come.

Statists see great value in slowly chipping away at the bedrock of American culture: faith and family life. The more that traditional families are weakened in our daily experience by our laws, the more that government is able to freely insert itself into our lives in an authoritarian way. And it will.

Mark Regnerus, a sociologist at the University of Texas at Austin, recently said, “I think you can have social stability without many intact families, but it’s going to be really expensive and it's going to look very ‘Huxley-Brave New World-ish.’ So [the intact family is] not only the optimal scenario … but it’s the cheapest. How often in life do you get the best and the cheapest in the same package?”

Marriage is not an elastic term. It is immutable. It offers the very best for children and society. We should not adulterate nor mutilate its definition, thereby denying its riches to current and future generations.

This article originally appeared in Public Discourse: Ethics, Law, and the Common Good, the online journal of the Witherspoon Institute of Princeton, NJ. Thepublicdiscourse.com. Reprinted with permission.
Yeah, he's just another of those ignorant homophobic bigots.


I find him to be failing in logic, to be honest. He speaks as though the allowance of same-sex marriage would remove the likelihood (or even the possibility) of philial love. That doesn't make any sense to me, as I have good friends who are female, and my wife has at least one good male friend). I think he's arguing to cut off his note to spite his face. to be honest.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby macbone on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:41 pm

I'm not sure he's saying that, Woodruff. I think his point about Eros vs Phileo is that our culture tends to elevate the formal while diminishing the latter, but I don't read anything in there that says marriage precludes any possible occurence of Phileo. C.S. Lewis explores the same ideas in his book <I>The Four Loves</I>, and he also argues that Phileo is a higher love than Eros. He was single for much of his life, but he apparently had enough romantic liaisons to have some room to speak from experience, plus whatever went on with him and Mrs. Moore. Actually, given what has been said about Moore, maybe Lewis' thoughts on Phileo make perfect sense.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:25 pm

macbone wrote:I'm not sure he's saying that, Woodruff. I think his point about Eros vs Phileo is that our culture tends to elevate the formal while diminishing the latter, but I don't read anything in there that says marriage precludes any possible occurence of Phileo.


Ok, yes I probably over-stated that, but his logic is still very poor. Otherwise, the idea of phileo love between those of the opposite sex would be rare (at least, he seems to be afraid that would become the case).

As well, I would suggest that our culture does NOT particularly elevate Eros love over Phileo love, but rather that the Phileo love is more underlying and just not as obvious but MORE PERVASIVE than Eros love.

In other words, Eros love is what is out there in front of everyone (thank you, advertising agencies, for instance), but Phileo love is actually far more common. It's not like those who would likely "marry" in the homosexual community don't already feel the Eros love, after all.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 03, 2013 2:47 pm

Rhode Island Joins States That Allow Gay Marriage

Overcoming years of resistance, Rhode Island on Thursday became the 10th state in the country and the last in New England to approve same-sex marriage...

...Delaware is likely to be next, perhaps as soon as next week. Illinois and Minnesota are also on track for passage...



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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Fri May 03, 2013 5:17 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Rhode Island Joins States That Allow Gay Marriage

Overcoming years of resistance, Rhode Island on Thursday became the 10th state in the country and the last in New England to approve same-sex marriage...

...Delaware is likely to be next, perhaps as soon as next week. Illinois and Minnesota are also on track for passage...


Delaware isn't considered to be in New England? I did not know that.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby saxitoxin on Mon May 27, 2013 6:28 pm

thegreekdog wrote:it's a little off-putting when he spends the first 30 seconds to a minute making it abundantly clear to listeners that he is not gay. "


"LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW STRAIGHT I APPEAR!"

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/2089 ... &c=y&img=1
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Symmetry on Tue May 28, 2013 9:36 am

saxitoxin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:it's a little off-putting when he spends the first 30 seconds to a minute making it abundantly clear to listeners that he is not gay. "


"LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW STRAIGHT I APPEAR!"

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/2089 ... &c=y&img=1
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Maybe he's a Liberacetarian?
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby crispybits on Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:40 pm

Bit of a thread necro but figured this would be better than a whole new thread:

http://americablog.com/2013/07/indiana- ... riage.html

In what appears to be a rather massive violation of the freedom of religion, the Republican party in Indiana appears to have amended the state criminal code to either make it a crime, or confirm that it remain a crime, for clergy to conduct weddings for gay couples.

While it is not widely known, numerous mainstream American religions permit gay nuptials. The faiths include reform Judaism, Evangelical Lutherans, Episcopalians, and the United Church of Christ, among others.

The amendment to the criminal code, which will go into effect on July 1, 2014, makes it a misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine of $1,000 for clergy “solemnize” a marriage of two men or two women.


So now, when the battle cry of "freedom of religion" goes up amongst the christian taliban in gay marriage discussions, they'll have to put a disclaimer on it "as long as it's religion that agrees in every way with ours!"
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:51 pm

crispybits wrote:Bit of a thread necro but figured this would be better than a whole new thread:

http://americablog.com/2013/07/indiana- ... riage.html

In what appears to be a rather massive violation of the freedom of religion, the Republican party in Indiana appears to have amended the state criminal code to either make it a crime, or confirm that it remain a crime, for clergy to conduct weddings for gay couples.

While it is not widely known, numerous mainstream American religions permit gay nuptials. The faiths include reform Judaism, Evangelical Lutherans, Episcopalians, and the United Church of Christ, among others.

The amendment to the criminal code, which will go into effect on July 1, 2014, makes it a misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine of $1,000 for clergy “solemnize” a marriage of two men or two women.


So now, when the battle cry of "freedom of religion" goes up amongst the christian taliban in gay marriage discussions, they'll have to put a disclaimer on it "as long as it's religion that agrees in every way with ours!"


Wow...really hard to defend that one. I'd be quite curious how that could even be justified by someone who is religious.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Woodruff wrote:
crispybits wrote:Bit of a thread necro but figured this would be better than a whole new thread:

http://americablog.com/2013/07/indiana- ... riage.html

In what appears to be a rather massive violation of the freedom of religion, the Republican party in Indiana appears to have amended the state criminal code to either make it a crime, or confirm that it remain a crime, for clergy to conduct weddings for gay couples.

While it is not widely known, numerous mainstream American religions permit gay nuptials. The faiths include reform Judaism, Evangelical Lutherans, Episcopalians, and the United Church of Christ, among others.

The amendment to the criminal code, which will go into effect on July 1, 2014, makes it a misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine of $1,000 for clergy “solemnize” a marriage of two men or two women.


So now, when the battle cry of "freedom of religion" goes up amongst the christian taliban in gay marriage discussions, they'll have to put a disclaimer on it "as long as it's religion that agrees in every way with ours!"


Wow...really hard to defend that one. I'd be quite curious how that could even be justified by someone who is religious.


They don't have to since some number of them already got what they wanted.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:23 am

Looks some some members of one group think they are more equal than some members of another

SEATTLE, WA, – A street preacher was repeatedly punched in the head and kicked by two men at Seattle’s Pridefest this past Sunday – and the entire confrontation was caught on camera. In disturbing video footage uploaded on Youtube and reported by Seattle’s KOMO news, two Christian street preachers can be seen standing on a grassy area. One of the preachers holds a sign that says “Jesus saves and heals,” and “Repent or else,” while the other holds a Bible.


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Last edited by Phatscotty on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:24 am

Did that fight occur before or after the preachers said, "all fags are going to hell"?
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:28 am

Phatscotty wrote:Looks some some members of one group think they are more equal than some members of another

SEATTLE, WA, – A street preacher was repeatedly punched in the head and kicked by two men at Seattle’s Pridefest this past Sunday – and the entire confrontation was caught on camera. In disturbing video footage uploaded on Youtube and reported by Seattle’s KOMO news, two Christian street preachers can be seen standing on a grassy area. One of the preachers holds a sign that says “Jesus saves and heals,” and “Repent or else,” while the other holds a Bible.


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BigBallinStalin wrote:Did that fight occur before or after the preachers said, "all fags are going to hell"?


Would you ask the same question if a preacher sucker punched and started mauling a homosexual protesting a religious function? Of course not, it would be front page news all across the country and we would have all the answers and Obama would be making a statement and Eric Holder would be forming a special investigation into a hate crime.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:06 am

Sometimes, you're right. Most of the time you're polemical, you create misleading analogies, and you don't criticize your own thinking/conclusions.

This is one of those latter moments.


Anyway, if you can't answer my question correctly, then don't you think it would be foolish to take something out of context?
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:17 am

General questions: (A) if we hold fast to freedom of expression, then does responding to someone's message (the preachers') with violence constitute as censuring that freedom of expression? (b) Under which circumstances is freedom of expression rightfully curtailed or censured?

I thought, "(A) Sure, which isn't right, but" since (B) = promoting violence, threatening others with death and torture*, then did the preachers do anything which revoked their right to freedom of expression?

    *; civil disobedience, and the enforcement required for failing to abide by contracts is one caveat.



If someone is going around threatening others with death and torture (e.g. "you're going to hell," or "Repent of Else") for behaving in a normal way in a consensual relationship among adults, then that's unacceptable. And the reasoning behind that threat is... a narrowed, arbitrary interpretation from a Magic Book, which is absurd. Hateful, bigoted speech is acceptable under the freedom of expression--until of course, threats of violence are made through that speech. So, going around threatening people with eternal torture and damnation--especially on one religion's grounds--breaks from the protection of freedom of speech. Those kinds of preachers in the youtube video are slightly better than radical, violent Muslims. Also, the state subsidizes the security of those who preach hate and violence toward minority groups, which unsurprisingly some people don't find troublesome (e.g. PS).
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby crispybits on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:25 am

It's a weird one for sure, because the gay witnesses can't actually claim they've been threatened with anything much of they don't believe that God exists (or at least that the biblical God exists), but the religious witnesses have to affirm that they were threatening hell and torture because they do believe it....
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:31 am

crispybits wrote:It's a weird one for sure, because the gay witnesses can't actually claim they've been threatened with anything much of they don't believe that God exists (or at least that the biblical God exists), but the religious witnesses have to affirm that they were threatening hell and torture because they do believe it....


Haha, I know, right?

I'd maintain that even if the recipients of the violent threat do not believe in its capability of being carried out, it doesn't matter--since the advocates of such violence really do believe in it. That's the problem: one can ignore something, but it doesn't mean that it goes away. In short, the violent threat still remains.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:21 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Sometimes, you're right. Most of the time you're polemical, you create misleading analogies, and you don't criticize your own thinking/conclusions.

This is one of those latter moments.


Anyway, if you can't answer my question correctly, then don't you think it would be foolish to take something out of context?


Honestly, I just want to know where all the threads are where Phatscotty abhors violence against gays. I can't seem to find those. You know... those incidents where a gay kid is bullied and commits suicide; or those incidents where a gay kid is tied to a truck and dragged for a couple of miles? Seems like those are more disturbing and worthy of mention than some people beating the crap out of two preachers who called them deragatory names.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby waauw on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:26 am

Phatscotty wrote:Looks some some members of one group think they are more equal than some members of another

SEATTLE, WA, – A street preacher was repeatedly punched in the head and kicked by two men at Seattle’s Pridefest this past Sunday – and the entire confrontation was caught on camera. In disturbing video footage uploaded on Youtube and reported by Seattle’s KOMO news, two Christian street preachers can be seen standing on a grassy area. One of the preachers holds a sign that says “Jesus saves and heals,” and “Repent or else,” while the other holds a Bible.


Image



These preachers are dispicable. You should know in advance that there is a very good chance of people getting pissed for doing this. Yes, people should have freedom of opinion and freedom of speech, but it should be limited by a line called "respect towards other people".

If a person hates bikers for example, he might be scared to go tell that right in the face of some of these huge men. They might be scared because they know it will be perceived as disrespectful. The same should go for this situation. If you start preaching thusly, it is a given that a lot of people will be dissatisfied and might react. Knowing this in advance and still deciding to do this, they're just purposelly trying to disrupt the peace. They are purposelly picking a fight.

I don't understand why american police even allows this.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 am

Phatscotty wrote:Looks some some members of one group think they are more equal than some members of another

SEATTLE, WA, – A street preacher was repeatedly punched in the head and kicked by two men at Seattle’s Pridefest this past Sunday – and the entire confrontation was caught on camera. In disturbing video footage uploaded on Youtube and reported by Seattle’s KOMO news, two Christian street preachers can be seen standing on a grassy area. One of the preachers holds a sign that says “Jesus saves and heals,” and “Repent or else,” while the other holds a Bible.


This DEFINITELY proves that gays should not be allowed to marry. Well done, Phatscotty.
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Re: Marriage Equality

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 am

waauw wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Looks some some members of one group think they are more equal than some members of another


These preachers are dispicable. You should know in advance that there is a very good chance of people getting pissed for doing this. Yes, people should have freedom of opinion and freedom of speech, but it should be limited by a line called "respect towards other people".


Now that you mention it, wasn't Phatscotty the one blaming some black kids for getting shot at a gas station because they weren't being respectful enough with their loud music? I guess in his mind, you should only be more respectful when you're a black kid. Religious people have the right to be blatantly offensive to gays, but black kids don't have the right to listen to their music as they'd like to.
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