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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:23 pm

Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:25 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.


Brilliant! Thanks, Phatscotty.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:27 pm

Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.


Brilliant! Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit C.

You know, my ban hammer is up to 24 hours... just saying I could do this for a while.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:30 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.


Brilliant! Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit C.

You know, my ban hammer is up to 24 hours... just saying I could do this for a while.


Brilliant! It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you'd happily see me banned again, Phatscotty. In fact, I think you'd be pleased at the idea.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.


Brilliant! Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit C.

You know, my ban hammer is up to 24 hours... just saying I could do this for a while.


Brilliant! It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you'd happily see me banned again, Phatscotty. In fact, I think you'd be pleased at the idea.


Exhibit D.

I really wouldn't be. I'm just wondering how long it will take you to type:

Spockruff wrote:You're right TGD. I'm just having a little go at Phatscotty. Obama is just as bad as Bush II, so I don't know why JB is making the comparison.


It's not that hard. Seriously.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Lootifer on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:39 pm

So do the 8 people who have voted at time of posting all have reference material at the ready? I am quite keen to see the studies you guys are basing your assertions off.

I eagerly await the links :D
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:26 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:True enough, your posts are in there. Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit B.


Brilliant! Thanks, Phatscotty.


Exhibit C.

You know, my ban hammer is up to 24 hours... just saying I could do this for a while.


Brilliant! It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you'd happily see me banned again, Phatscotty. In fact, I think you'd be pleased at the idea.


Exhibit D.

I really wouldn't be. I'm just wondering how long it will take you to type:

Spockruff wrote:You're right TGD. I'm just having a little go at Phatscotty. Obama is just as bad as Bush II, so I don't know why JB is making the comparison.


It's not that hard. Seriously.


I've said it so many times previously that it really shouldn't be necessary. As you say, it's not that hard. But keep on keeping on, Phatscotty...you're doing what you're good at. At least you know where your talent lies.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:22 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:I put not really. Mainly due to in the American context, guns being so readily available that anyone who really wants a gun can get one illegally. Either through theft or the black market.

I think the answer would be to reduce the supply of guns, which gun control laws might accomplish by reducing legitimate buyers,(legal hurdles ect) which in turn might reduce the amount of guns produced leading to a lower supply of guns available to the black market.


=D> I did too.

Fortunately, reducing arms is a restriction on our right to bear arms. It would be like reducing voting locations.

The overall answer is that we need to fix our culture. Why doesn't anyone want to seem to do that?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby muy_thaiguy on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:24 pm

So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:31 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


I was asking if they actually work or not. I don't really have a problem with them, accept for they don't really work imo. We are trying to stop murders right? So then let's ask a relative question, like, out of all the gun murders in the USA, how many of them were committed by a person who passed a background check?

And I don't know who has their panties in a twist, unless you are talking about the trolls, who aren't really participating anyways.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby The Voice on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:36 pm

Why the hell does this topic title keep changing? I feel like we'll eventually land at "Why are kittens such a popular poll item?" and retroactively ban everyone who posted up to that point for spamming the thread with posts unrelated to kittens and their popularity at the polls.

As an aside, TheGreekDog, your implication(s) that Woodruff is Juan_Bottom, and Woodruff, your implication(s) that TGD is Phatscotty only make you both look more like the person you're being labeled as. I guess what I'm saying is stop it. Neither of you are as nearly as bad as either of the others. Actually, I quite like reading your posts when they're not being used to egg on the another. I skip past the posts made by PS and JB and move right along to yours because I feel like I can learn something true.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Night Strike on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:21 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:26 pm

Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


I grant that's true. Now my question...does it actually matter? Are your personal firearms actually going to make ANY DIFFERENCE if the government goes full-retard-totalitarian? The idea that they would be effective against the military now is ludicrous.

There was a time when they would. I don't believe they could now.
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Postby Symmetry on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:31 pm

Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


They have several such databases.

the ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consists of several databases:
1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.[8]
2. Suspect Guns. All guns suspected of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples[citation needed]), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere.[citation needed] Reported as 34,807 in 2010. [8]
3. Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception.[8]This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.
4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968. [9]
5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010.[8] Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional).[8] Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
Good old Ron Reagan.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Night Strike on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:35 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


I grant that's true. Now my question...does it actually matter? Are your personal firearms actually going to make ANY DIFFERENCE if the government goes full-retard-totalitarian? The idea that they would be effective against the military now is ludicrous.

There was a time when they would. I don't believe they could now.


So the answer is to just let them take away all the guns? Your response just demonstrates why there should be fewer gun restrictions, not more of them. Besides, as others have mentioned (on this site and others), the citizens only have to demonstrate they will fight if necessary in order for many members of the military to ignore such unlawful orders of turning against the citizens.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:35 pm

Woodruff wrote:
I grant that's true. Now my question...does it actually matter? Are your personal firearms actually going to make ANY DIFFERENCE if the government goes full-retard-totalitarian? The idea that they would be effective against the military now is ludicrous.

There was a time when they would. I don't believe they could now.


Let's brush past the typical totalitarianism in Uhmerica arguments that others hold.

Now, do you think Americans have generally become conditioned to higher taxes and more wars over the decades?
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Re:

Postby Night Strike on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:37 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


They have several such databases.

the ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consists of several databases:
1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.[8]
2. Suspect Guns. All guns suspected of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples[citation needed]), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere.[citation needed] Reported as 34,807 in 2010. [8]
3. Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception.[8]This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.
4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968. [9]
5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010.[8] Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional).[8] Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
Good old Ron Reagan.


Good to know....time to get rid of them. Except for the stolen guns and possibly the suspect guns.
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Re: Re:

Postby Symmetry on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:03 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


They have several such databases.

the ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consists of several databases:
1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.[8]
2. Suspect Guns. All guns suspected of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples[citation needed]), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere.[citation needed] Reported as 34,807 in 2010. [8]
3. Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception.[8]This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.
4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968. [9]
5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010.[8] Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional).[8] Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
Good old Ron Reagan.


Good to know....time to get rid of them. Except for the stolen guns and possibly the suspect guns.


Get rid of the databases, or the guns?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Baron Von PWN on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:05 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:I put not really. Mainly due to in the American context, guns being so readily available that anyone who really wants a gun can get one illegally. Either through theft or the black market.

I think the answer would be to reduce the supply of guns, which gun control laws might accomplish by reducing legitimate buyers,(legal hurdles ect) which in turn might reduce the amount of guns produced leading to a lower supply of guns available to the black market.


=D> I did too.

Fortunately, reducing arms is a restriction on our right to bear arms. It would be like reducing voting locations.

The overall answer is that we need to fix our culture. Why doesn't anyone want to seem to do that?


How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Night Strike on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:11 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?


The devaluation of human life and the removal of traditional, stable families are good places to start fixing.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:12 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:I put not really. Mainly due to in the American context, guns being so readily available that anyone who really wants a gun can get one illegally. Either through theft or the black market.

I think the answer would be to reduce the supply of guns, which gun control laws might accomplish by reducing legitimate buyers,(legal hurdles ect) which in turn might reduce the amount of guns produced leading to a lower supply of guns available to the black market.


=D> I did too.

Fortunately, reducing arms is a restriction on our right to bear arms. It would be like reducing voting locations.

The overall answer is that we need to fix our culture. Why doesn't anyone want to seem to do that?


How do you "fix culture"


Well, for one and most pertinent to the discussion here, we can do a LOT better in teaching our children "thou shall not kill"....agree so far?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Baron Von PWN on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:15 pm

Night Strike/Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?


The devaluation of human life and the removal of traditional, stable families are good places to start fixing.

Well, for one and most pertinent to the discussion here, we can do a LOT better in teaching our children "thou shall not kill"....agree so far?


Ok how do you do that? Shout "Don't kill people!" at children repeatedly? Ban divorce so couples are forced to stay together?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:18 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
Night Strike/Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?


The devaluation of human life and the removal of traditional, stable families are good places to start fixing.

Well, for one and most pertinent to the discussion here, we can do a LOT better in teaching our children "thou shall not kill"....agree so far?


Ok how do you do that? Shout "Don't kill people!" at children repeatedly? Ban divorce so couples are forced to stay together?


We teach it, just like we would teach anything else. I'm sure there are ways to teach besides shouting.

Have you been drinking or something? Where is the tude coming from?
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:20 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:So, tell me. What's wrong with background checks for purchasing firearms? Unless you're an ex-con (violent crimes) or something like that, I don't see why people would get their panties in a twist about it.


If the government is notified every time a gun changes ownership, then they would easily have the abilities to create a registry of gun owners. Even if they claim they would never actually build such a database. Does anyone actually believe them when they say that?


I grant that's true. Now my question...does it actually matter? Are your personal firearms actually going to make ANY DIFFERENCE if the government goes full-retard-totalitarian? The idea that they would be effective against the military now is ludicrous.

There was a time when they would. I don't believe they could now.


So the answer is to just let them take away all the guns?


Boy, you jumped to full-retard quick. Where did I say anything of the sort, Night Strike? Would you like to discuss the issue rationally, or would you like to continue with your terror-induced coma for a while first?

Night Strike wrote:Your response just demonstrates why there should be fewer gun restrictions, not more of them.


No it doesn't. Please explain how my response demonstrates any such thing, Night Strike.

Night Strike wrote:Besides, as others have mentioned (on this site and others), the citizens only have to demonstrate they will fight if necessary in order for many members of the military to ignore such unlawful orders of turning against the citizens.


See, here's what you don't get. I know that. I was in the military, and there's no question in my mind that a portion of the military would go against such orders. That being said, it STILL DOESN'T MATTER. That military equipment is what would be necessary. As I said before, the idea that your personal firearms are going to be effective against the military using military equipment is ludicrous.
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Re: Background Checks/Gun Control: Do They Work?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:22 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:I put not really. Mainly due to in the American context, guns being so readily available that anyone who really wants a gun can get one illegally. Either through theft or the black market.

I think the answer would be to reduce the supply of guns, which gun control laws might accomplish by reducing legitimate buyers,(legal hurdles ect) which in turn might reduce the amount of guns produced leading to a lower supply of guns available to the black market.


=D> I did too.

Fortunately, reducing arms is a restriction on our right to bear arms. It would be like reducing voting locations.

The overall answer is that we need to fix our culture. Why doesn't anyone want to seem to do that?


How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?


1. Go back to Christian ideals.
2. Get rid of the homosexuals and liberals.
3. Profit.

Night Strike wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:How do you "fix culture" what is it about american culture that needs fixing which would make an abundance of guns not a problem?


The devaluation of human life and the removal of traditional, stable families are good places to start fixing.


Bingo.

Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:How do you "fix culture"


Well, for one and most pertinent to the discussion here, we can do a LOT better in teaching our children "thou shall not kill"....agree so far?


Imagine that.
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