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Re: Gun Control

Postby Lootifer on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:18 am

Nobunaga wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/beating-caught-homeowner-nanny-cam-article-1.1381703

My wife, or my son, would have killed the bastard.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10890792

And this guy + 3? 5? 10? 23? would also be dead in your same little gun-in-everyones-pocket world.

I am neither strongly against nor strongly for guns; but my point is posting some news stories where under different circumstances some bad dude might not have been allowed to be bad is fucking retarded.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:26 am

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby hotfire on Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:49 am



I'm all for requiring a key or credit card to operate a gun also....
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:17 am

hotfire wrote:


I'm all for requiring a key or credit card to operate a gun also....


Well at least you can congratulate yourself on getting the important information out of the article.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby hotfire on Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Woodruff wrote:
hotfire wrote:


I'm all for requiring a key or credit card to operate a gun also....


Well at least you can congratulate yourself on getting the important information out of the article.


It's really distracting when the conclusion of the article could be improved with freshman year of college level editing...especially from a newspaper of status.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:06 pm

hotfire wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
hotfire wrote:


I'm all for requiring a key or credit card to operate a gun also....


Well at least you can congratulate yourself on getting the important information out of the article.


It's really distracting when the conclusion of the article could be improved with freshman year of college level editing...especially from a newspaper of status.


Except that the conclusion of the article wasn't that a gun should have a key or credit card to operate it. Perhaps it isn't the editor who had the issue with the Freshman year of college.

So did you have any thoughts on the actual content of the article?
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Re: Gun Control

Postby hotfire on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:32 pm

it contains some valid points/criticisms, but it wasn't very motivating/moving....what about it impressed u worth sharing?
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:02 am

hotfire wrote:it contains some valid points/criticisms, but it wasn't very motivating/moving....what about it impressed u worth sharing?


The balanced way he approached the need for some added measures regarding guns without being unnecessarily hampering (for instance, background checks). I found it going against both of the "typical arguments" of "you can't do anything to guns or it's against the Second Amendment" and "we need to get rid of guns". Most articles and discussions regarding guns don't tend to be very balanced, even when the author is probably trying to be, so I found it refreshing.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 pm

Do citizens have the right to possess guns in Brazil?

What are they using to kill each other in such huge numbers if they don't have guns? Surely some kind of regulation is called for.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/18 ... -30-years/
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Lootifer on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:44 pm

What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:08 pm

Nobunaga wrote:Do citizens have the right to possess guns in Brazil?

What are they using to kill each other in such huge numbers if they don't have guns? Surely some kind of regulation is called for.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/18 ... -30-years/


Of course killing can happen without guns (I was in Rwanda, remember). But guns absolutely make it easier, faster, generally "cleaner", and almost always less "personally involving" than most other means for the common person to have at their disposal. For that reason, I think it's reasonable to have a view of gun control that is a bit different than a view of, for instance, pocket knives.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:10 pm

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...


I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Nobunaga on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:53 am

Woodruff wrote:
Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...


I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.


... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Nobunaga on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:58 am

Nobunaga wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...


I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.


... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.


For Looty: Absurd? If somebody wants you dead, and they have no gun, they can get the job done with a machete, a baseball bat, or whatever is convenient.

But I have looked into this further to discover that Brazilians do indeed have firearms, and in great quantities.



..... Move along.... Nothing to see here....
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:16 am

Nobunaga wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...


I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.


... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.


I certainly would agree with you that even if we were to go the "get rid of all guns" route, it's not going to stop all murders from happening in the United States.

That being said, there IS a difference between the use of a gun to kill someone and the use of most other weapons. Most other weapons are more "personally involved", which for many people makes a tremendous difference psychologically...the gun is a much easier method for them for that reason. Most other weapons also provide more of an opportunity to "fight back" and maybe at least cause more evidence to be left at the scene (blood of the attacker, etc).

Don't get me wrong...I am NOT a "get rid of all guns" advocate, nor even a "get rid of any guns" advocate. I DO advocate required background checks for all gun sales, however. That won't stop any murders directly, I don't think...but it will help to resolve them after the fact and in some cases make it more difficult for criminals to get guns.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Lootifer on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:53 pm

Nobunaga wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.


Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...


I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.


... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.


For Looty: Absurd? If somebody wants you dead, and they have no gun, they can get the job done with a machete, a baseball bat, or whatever is convenient.

But I have looked into this further to discover that Brazilians do indeed have firearms, and in great quantities.



..... Move along.... Nothing to see here....

I agree, people will kill each other if they really want to.

I also agree that guns arent really the issue (in Brazil or the US); there are far more important factors involved.

Where we disagree is that I dont think guns help the situation. But I am certainly not getting involved in this debate again, the US can be as pro-gun as they like; I will continue to feel that you're a bit crazy, but I am certainly not going to say you should get rid of them: thats not my place (just please dont shoot me when I come over on Holiday).
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Re: Gun Control

Postby notyou2 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:28 pm

Nobunaga wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/beating-caught-homeowner-nanny-cam-article-1.1381703

My wife, or my son, would have killed the bastard.


Holy f*ck you are TOUGH

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Re: Gun Control

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:01 pm

Things Don’t Turn Out Well for Group of Thugs Who Went After 75-Year-Old Man – Three Are in Custody and One Is at the Morgue

SANDSTONE, Minn. (TheBlaze/AP) — Sheriff’s officials say three people are in custody after a homeowner shot and killed an armed intruder during a home invasion in eastern Minnesota.
Minnesota Man Shoots Kills Armed Robber, 3 Suspects in Custody

Authorities say two men in their 20s entered a house near Sandstone about 2:30 a.m. Thursday with the apparent intent to rob the old homeowner, who KAAL-TV identifies as 75-year-old Charles Carlson.

At least one of the intruders was armed with a handgun.

Following a struggle with one of the intruders, Carlson was able to grab his own gun and shoot the armed suspect, who was later pronounced dead at the scene, according to Pine County Sheriff Robin Cole. The dead suspect is identified as 23-year-old Gypsy Watts. A second suspect fled.

WDIO-TV reports three persons of interest were arrested Thursday afternoon. Authorities say no other suspects are being sought. Authorities also found a van they believe was involved.

The homeowner was not hurt and is reportedly cooperating with investigators.

Though he is not expected to face legal consequences, the County Attorney’s office will determine if the shooting fits the criteria for self-defense.
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