We need more regulation!!!

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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:49 am

Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:25 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?


why troll?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:27 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?


why troll?


Good question. Why do you troll?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:21 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


the government is in your bedroom??? Can't wait to hear what you're talking about here.

Or are you just making things up again.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:26 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?


why troll?


You're just like Player, who has driven me crazy with her inconsistencies lately.

On the one hand, you're all for freedom and getting the government out of something when it's something you don't want the government to be in. And to drive home your argument, you use tenets from the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.

On the other hand, when it's something like abortion or gay marriage, you're all about government intervention and ignore any founding documents or any other logical link between government intervention and freedom.

You argue out of both sides of your mouth and that's not only stupid, it's dishonest. If you're going to argue about less government regulation of business while arguing against gay marriage and abortion, as far as I'm concerned you're prohibited from invoking the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence, or any other historical or modern interpretations thereof. Hypocrisy doesn't work here. Sorry little buddy.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby ooge on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?


why troll?


You're just like Player, who has driven me crazy with her inconsistencies lately.

On the one hand, you're all for freedom and getting the government out of something when it's something you don't want the government to be in. And to drive home your argument, you use tenets from the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.

On the other hand, when it's something like abortion or gay marriage, you're all about government intervention and ignore any founding documents or any other logical link between government intervention and freedom.

You argue out of both sides of your mouth and that's not only stupid, it's dishonest. If you're going to argue about less government regulation of business while arguing against gay marriage and abortion, as far as I'm concerned you're prohibited from invoking the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence, or any other historical or modern interpretations thereof. Hypocrisy doesn't work here. Sorry little buddy.


=D> =D> =D> =D> beautifully stated and accurate,I could not agree more
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby ooge on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:57 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:regulation..glass /spegal why was it put into law? when was it repealed? what were the consequences of the repealing of this regulation? Arline industry when was it deregulated? by whom? what have been the consequences of this deregulation?State of California and energy deregulation,what were the consequences of the deregulation.Trucking industry? one can go on and on about how government has deregulated over regulated the past forty years.


Huh? What? Who? When? Where? Why? How?


(The underlined were very beneficial examples of deregulation/privatization).


care to elaborate on why deregulation was beneficial to the underlined?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:07 am

ooge wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:regulation..glass /spegal why was it put into law? when was it repealed? what were the consequences of the repealing of this regulation? Arline industry when was it deregulated? by whom? what have been the consequences of this deregulation?State of California and energy deregulation,what were the consequences of the deregulation.Trucking industry? one can go on and on about how government has deregulated over regulated the past forty years.


Huh? What? Who? When? Where? Why? How?


(The underlined were very beneficial examples of deregulation/privatization).


care to elaborate on why deregulation was beneficial to the underlined?


How much are you willing to read?

And, as a thought experiment, what happens when the Soviet Union nationalizes an industry?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:28 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


Why be consistent?


why troll?


Cogito ergo troglodytarum?

Also, is this the motto of the Troll Forest Brigade?


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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:27 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Gov't is too big, to expsensive, with compounding interest, period.

If you want to look for cuts, ignore the people who try to mock other with the roads and bridges bit. Challenge them to start at mesquito control, humvees for federal parks, and publicly funded art projects. And who can leave out light rail?


And get them out of our bedrooms.


the government is in your bedroom??? Can't wait to hear what you're talking about here.
Or are you just making things up again.


I know you don't keep up on the news much, Phatscotty, but see there's this interesting take on marriage that views it with the eyes of equality rather than with the eyes of bigotry. With that view, rational people are realizing that homosexuals should not be kept from the ability to marry. Never mind sodomy laws and other silly things like that.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby warmonger1981 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:30 am

What happens in the case when affirmative action doesn't work? As in the case with white firefighters who were denied raises in pay since no blacks passed a written test. Reverse racism? Where was the caucasian fair right to advance. They had to go to court to get the pay. Affirmative action is legal reverse racism on whites. People should be as racist all they want. Freedom of choice even if your an ignorant asshole.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:56 am

warmonger1981 wrote:What happens in the case when affirmative action doesn't work? As in the case with white firefighters who were denied raises in pay since no blacks passed a written test.


I don't know the story here...do you have a link?

warmonger1981 wrote:Affirmative action is legal reverse racism on whites. People should be as racist all they want. Freedom of choice even if your an ignorant asshole.


First of all, the term "reverse racism" is a moron term. It doesn't even make basic sense, unless you're trying to say that the individual using "reverse racism" is NOT being racist.

Secondly, people WILL be racist all they want and I even agree that they should be allowed to be when it's simply a private matter, unfortunately. However, I do not at all agree that they should be allowed to in the performance of some public undertaking, such as running a business or the like.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Lootifer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:32 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:What happens in the case when affirmative action doesn't work? As in the case with white firefighters who were denied raises in pay since no blacks passed a written test. Reverse racism? Where was the caucasian fair right to advance. They had to go to court to get the pay. Affirmative action is legal reverse racism on whites. People should be as racist all they want. Freedom of choice even if your an ignorant asshole.

Then i'd assume there would be a signal sent that education amongst black communities is lacking and we should probably do something about that also.

(note: I personally would be supporting improved education programs amongst communities that are... erm... being left behind. I dont particularly support an affirmative action scheme that prescribes a certain percentage of diversity amongst parts of the workforce).

Not all regulation is bad, but I would suggest most, if not all, prescriptive regulation is bad.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:34 pm

Lootifer wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:What happens in the case when affirmative action doesn't work? As in the case with white firefighters who were denied raises in pay since no blacks passed a written test. Reverse racism? Where was the caucasian fair right to advance. They had to go to court to get the pay. Affirmative action is legal reverse racism on whites. People should be as racist all they want. Freedom of choice even if your an ignorant asshole.

Then i'd assume there would be a signal sent that education amongst black communities is lacking and we should probably do something about that also.

(note: I personally would be supporting improved education programs amongst communities that are... erm... being left behind. I dont particularly support an affirmative action scheme that prescribes a certain percentage of diversity amongst parts of the workforce).

Not all regulation is bad, but I would suggest most, if not all, prescriptive regulation is bad.


What's your approach to this kind of problem?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Lootifer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:42 pm

Throw tax payer money at it durr!

But more seriously. I am not sure; this is how we do it, and it seems ok (I am not particularly in-the-know-in in education...).

There's plenty of unintended consequences (which im sure you will happily list), the most obvious being the slowing of net progress of education (racing boat analogy, one with a pointed front goes through the water faster than one with a square front) but since I value fairness above progress I can sleep at night.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:47 pm

Lootifer wrote:Throw tax payer money at it durr!

But more seriously. I am not sure; this is how we do it, and it seems ok (I am not particularly in-the-know-in in education...).

There's plenty of unintended consequences (which im sure you will happily list), the most obvious being the slowing of net progress of education (racing boat analogy, one with a pointed front goes through the water faster than one with a square front) but since I value fairness above progress I can sleep at night.


Hey, especially since you're glad that everyone else is forced to pay for it! :D External costs, private benefits, yo. Oh, the price of Ideology. When will it end?


The lower a school’s decile rating, the more funding it gets. The increased funding given to lower decile schools is to provide additional resources to support their students’ learning needs. A decile does not indicate the overall socio-economic mix of the students attending a school or measure the standard of education delivered at a school.


That's an interesting way to 'throw taxpayer money' at it! :D

I wonder if anywhere uses an index of performance, e.g. # of employed or in under/grad school after graduation would determine how much state-money a school gets.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby Lootifer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Hey, especially since you're glad that everyone else is forced to pay for it! :D External costs, private benefits, yo. Oh, the price of Ideology. When will it end?

Firstly the cost isnt completely externalised; I pay my taxes, and happily do so, knowing that part of my taxes go towards this program.

Secondly you are right; in a perfect world we would figure out a way of voting on the ideology, such that we can democratically say, one way or another, this is what the population genuinely wants (after understanding the unintended consequences and decrease in efficiency) - yes I am implying I know what way the vote would go, I am fairly (pun intended) confident of what way our culture would go on this single issue (NZ culture tends to favour fairness over freedom when faced with a binary choice).

Once again we come to an impasse that is a result of the political structure being unable practically represent its people.

I wonder if anywhere uses an index of performance, e.g. # of employed or in under/grad school after graduation would determine how much state-money a school gets.

Tsk tsk... thats equality of results durr, not equality of opportunity.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby ooge on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:41 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:regulation..glass /spegal why was it put into law? when was it repealed? what were the consequences of the repealing of this regulation? Arline industry when was it deregulated? by whom? what have been the consequences of this deregulation?State of California and energy deregulation,what were the consequences of the deregulation.Trucking industry? one can go on and on about how government has deregulated over regulated the past forty years.


Huh? What? Who? When? Where? Why? How?


(The underlined were very beneficial examples of deregulation/privatization).


care to elaborate on why deregulation was beneficial to the underlined?


How much are you willing to read?

And, as a thought experiment, what happens when the Soviet Union nationalizes an industry?


nationalizing is not the same as regulation.look at the title of this thread
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby warmonger1981 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:43 pm

Links: Ricci v. DeStefano
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106083630
https://www.nytimes.com/ 2011/ 07/ 29/ nyregion/ new-haven-firefighters-settle-race-discrimination-claims.html -


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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby john9blue on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:33 am

ooge wrote:
nationalizing is not the same as regulation.look at the title of this thread


can you give an example of something that was one but not the other?
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby b.k. barunt on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:31 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Links: Ricci v. DeStefano
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =106083630
https://www.nytimes.com/ 2011/ 07/ 29/ nyregion/ new-haven-firefighters-settle-race-discrimination-claims.html -


" The best form of government, like the most perfect of religions, taken in a literal sense, is a contradictory idea. The problem is not to discover how we shall be best governed, but how we shall be most free. George Plechanoff - Anarchism and Socialism


That's one of those soundsgoodifyousayitfast lil popups. The more freedom you have, the more perfect form of government you need to maintain those freedoms. Case in point: America. We had the most perfect formof government that i know of within the framework of our Constitution. As self serving wankers like Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, NIxon, Reagan, Bush and Obama chipped away at our Constitution we correspondingly had our freedom chipped away.


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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:31 am

Our Constitution only works with moral people. We dont have that. We are a nation of corporations not people. Polititions are lobbyist working for corporations. The whole world is up for sale and everything in it.
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:02 pm

Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Hey, especially since you're glad that everyone else is forced to pay for it! :D External costs, private benefits, yo. Oh, the price of Ideology. When will it end?

Firstly the cost isnt completely externalised; I pay my taxes, and happily do so, knowing that part of my taxes go towards this program.

Secondly you are right; in a perfect world we would figure out a way of voting on the ideology, such that we can democratically say, one way or another, this is what the population genuinely wants (after understanding the unintended consequences and decrease in efficiency) - yes I am implying I know what way the vote would go, I am fairly (pun intended) confident of what way our culture would go on this single issue (NZ culture tends to favour fairness over freedom when faced with a binary choice).

Once again we come to an impasse that is a result of the political structure being unable practically represent its people.


Markets are significantly better at that though.

Lootifer wrote:
I wonder if anywhere uses an index of performance, e.g. # of employed or in under/grad school after graduation would determine how much state-money a school gets.

Tsk tsk... thats equality of results durr, not equality of opportunity.


How can you adhere to opportunity while shunning outcomes? You'd be satisfied in having "equal opportunity" for all kids to join warehouses from 8AM-3PM everyday, learning nothing. (Just being extreme here, but that's the reductio ad absurdum. Obviously, you'd want better outcomes, but I'm not sure why you said the underlined).
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Re: We need more regulation!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:04 pm

ooge wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:regulation..glass /spegal why was it put into law? when was it repealed? what were the consequences of the repealing of this regulation? Arline industry when was it deregulated? by whom? what have been the consequences of this deregulation?State of California and energy deregulation,what were the consequences of the deregulation.Trucking industry? one can go on and on about how government has deregulated over regulated the past forty years.


Huh? What? Who? When? Where? Why? How?


(The underlined were very beneficial examples of deregulation/privatization).


care to elaborate on why deregulation was beneficial to the underlined?


How much are you willing to read?

And, as a thought experiment, what happens when the Soviet Union nationalizes an industry?


nationalizing is not the same as regulation.look at the title of this thread


Suppose I let you own a piece of land. I'm going to tell you what you can and can't produce, and how you're going to produce it (regulation). If the regulation is great enough, then you de facto do not own your land (i.e. you don't retain the ownership rights).

How much are you willing to read? Do you even care about critically challenging your beliefs about regulation?
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