If Marriage Is a Fundamental Right, Then?

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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Middle School Girls Forced Into 'Lesbian Kiss' at NY School

their daughters complained that they were forced to ask each other for kisses and pretend to be lovers during an anti-bullying presentation on homosexuality and gender identity.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/paren ... ool-94523/


I have to agree that there certainly should have been parental notification/permission for something of this nature. That being said, do you have a source that's not heavily biased?

Phatscotty wrote:
The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tment.html


Gotta be honest, I see no problem here. Why do you? Are you going to bother answering this one?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Thu May 09, 2013 11:02 pm

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/05/0 ... -marriage/

Minn. House Approves Gay Marriage, 75-59

This is the right way to change marriage
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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Thu May 09, 2013 11:43 pm

Am I missing something? how is that different than any other state/country that has approved it?

(not poking or arguing here, genuine question).
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Fri May 10, 2013 6:53 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Middle School Girls Forced Into 'Lesbian Kiss' at NY School

their daughters complained that they were forced to ask each other for kisses and pretend to be lovers during an anti-bullying presentation on homosexuality and gender identity.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/paren ... ool-94523/


I have to agree that there certainly should have been parental notification/permission for something of this nature. That being said, do you have a source that's not heavily biased?

Phatscotty wrote:
The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl

Image
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tment.html


Gotta be honest, I see no problem here. Why do you? Are you going to bother answering this one?


Moderators, can you please remove Phatscotty's posts to another thread? This appears to be off-topic since this topic is about gay marriage.

For that matter, you might as well move all of his posts in this thread to a different thread, since none of them are about gay marriage.
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Re: Marriage

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 10, 2013 10:04 am

The Simpsons episode about Valentines Day popped into my head while reading through this topic earlier this morning:

show



--Andy
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Postby 2dimes on Fri May 10, 2013 10:53 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
The little boy who started a sex change aged eight because he (and his lesbian parents) knew he always wanted to be a girl

Image
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tment.html


Gotta be honest, I see no problem here. Why do you? Are you going to bother answering this one?
Could a person make a mistake they might regret when they're eight?

With modern medicine they can really go all out.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 13, 2013 7:43 pm

It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 13, 2013 9:04 pm

Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?
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Postby 2dimes on Mon May 13, 2013 9:54 pm

Disorder? You and the rest of the "wiki" chauvinist pigs should be put to death for calling it that. It's natural and beautiful that a little boy wants to do that.


Just kidding, I'm actually kind of neutral even though I believe he should wait to irreversibly change gender. So what side are you on again?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Baron Von PWN on Mon May 13, 2013 10:09 pm

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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 13, 2013 10:41 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?

I have no idea. Though I think that is secondary to my point. The parents gender/sexuality is meaningless to the article to me (any debate should be around a young child starting the sex change process pre-puberty).

Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?
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Re:

Postby Orwell on Mon May 13, 2013 11:11 pm

2dimes wrote:Sorry.
I know a lot of people that had kids without getting married.

And there are a lot of couples who get married with no intention of having children - my wife and I included.

According to the definition of marriage presented by conservatives, our right to be married shouldn't be recognized because we do not want to engage in the biological function of producing offspring. Yet it is recognized by all states, the Federal government, and the Catholic Church we were married in - only because we are a woman and a man.

I consider that severely hypocritical.
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Re: Marriage

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue May 14, 2013 12:31 am

Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.


2dimes wrote:Disorder? You and the rest of the "wiki" chauvinist pigs should be put to death for calling it that. It's natural and beautiful that a little boy wants to do that.
Just kidding, I'm actually kind of neutral even though I believe he should wait to irreversibly change gender. So what side are you on again?


It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).




"In conclusion, transsexualism is strongly associated with the neurodevelopment of the brain...The condition has not been found to be overcome by contrary socialisation, nor by psychological or psychiatric treatments . . . Individuals may benefit from an approach that includes a programme of hormones and corrective surgery to achieve realignment of the phenotype with the gender identity, accompanied by well-integrated psychosocial interventions to support the individual and to assist in the adaptation to the appropriate social role . . . Treatments may vary, and should be commensurate with each individual's particular needs and circumstances."


from: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

original source: http://www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Assets ... ameset.htm


2dimes wrote:Could a person make a mistake they might regret when they're eight?


Could the parents and the peer groups regret making the mistake of forcing someone to be who they aren't?

It's not like age makes people any wiser about transsexualism. In many cases, they simply cause harm by denying one's developing a particular gender identity.



Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 14, 2013 12:35 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.


How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


How long have you been asking questions that make absolutely no sense in the discussion but are designed only with the intention of furthering your right-wing agenda?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 14, 2013 12:38 am

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


I think we both know the answer to that...
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Re: Marriage

Postby Colemanus on Tue May 14, 2013 12:56 am

And some people have deviant sexual behavior. These would be normal them, vile to others.
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Re: Marriage

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue May 14, 2013 2:29 am

I guess, but sex and gender are pretty different topics.
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Tue May 14, 2013 7:40 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.
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Re: Marriage

Postby crispybits on Tue May 14, 2013 7:45 am

But he is all in favour of limited government..... for anything he wants to do! Get the government out of all my shit!

Hang on though - I don't like that other thing over there, the government should totally get involved with having laws which forbid that for sure...
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 14, 2013 11:58 am

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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:28 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:31 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.


How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


How long have you been asking questions that make absolutely no sense in the discussion but are designed only with the intention of furthering your right-wing agenda?


Your answer looks a lot like Greekdogs.

Anyone?
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Re: Marriage

Postby crispybits on Thu May 16, 2013 5:27 am

How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?

How long have we had legally recognised married gay people? That's like saying how long have people born in 1991 been able to vote democrat. Well, since 2009 when they were legally allowed to do it.

A better question would be how long have gay people been able to adopt kids? In modern America, that would be since the late 1970s, so well over 30 years now, heading for 40. If there was some fundamental flaw in their parenting just because they are gay, then I'm pretty confident someone would have noticed by now given that adoptive families undergo much higher scrutiny from social services than biologically created ones.
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Thu May 16, 2013 10:23 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:45 am

Phatscotty wrote:If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


Redefining marriage is thoroughly irrelevant to a more limited government. It has as much to do with a more limited government as freeing the slaves did.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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