Marriage

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Re: Marriage

Postby Colemanus on Tue May 14, 2013 12:56 am

And some people have deviant sexual behavior. These would be normal them, vile to others.
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Re: Marriage

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue May 14, 2013 2:29 am

I guess, but sex and gender are pretty different topics.
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Tue May 14, 2013 7:40 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.
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Re: Marriage

Postby crispybits on Tue May 14, 2013 7:45 am

But he is all in favour of limited government..... for anything he wants to do! Get the government out of all my shit!

Hang on though - I don't like that other thing over there, the government should totally get involved with having laws which forbid that for sure...
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 14, 2013 11:58 am

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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:28 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:31 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.


How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


How long have you been asking questions that make absolutely no sense in the discussion but are designed only with the intention of furthering your right-wing agenda?


Your answer looks a lot like Greekdogs.

Anyone?
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Re: Marriage

Postby crispybits on Thu May 16, 2013 5:27 am

How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?

How long have we had legally recognised married gay people? That's like saying how long have people born in 1991 been able to vote democrat. Well, since 2009 when they were legally allowed to do it.

A better question would be how long have gay people been able to adopt kids? In modern America, that would be since the late 1970s, so well over 30 years now, heading for 40. If there was some fundamental flaw in their parenting just because they are gay, then I'm pretty confident someone would have noticed by now given that adoptive families undergo much higher scrutiny from social services than biologically created ones.
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Thu May 16, 2013 10:23 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:45 am

Phatscotty wrote:If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


Redefining marriage is thoroughly irrelevant to a more limited government. It has as much to do with a more limited government as freeing the slaves did.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:46 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.


How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


How long have you been asking questions that make absolutely no sense in the discussion but are designed only with the intention of furthering your right-wing agenda?


Your answer looks a lot like Greekdogs.


There's probably a reason for that. But I shouldn't expect someone with your lack of self-awareness to pick up on it, I suppose.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:47 am

thegreekdog wrote:See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.


It's almost as if he recognizes deep down in that black heart of his that his position is in reality untenable.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 19, 2013 1:14 am

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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Sun May 19, 2013 1:54 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 19, 2013 2:33 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.


1. Now you know how it feels.

2. If you're still waiting for an answer, then you simply aren't paying attention:
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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 20, 2013 7:56 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).

Haha, yeah I agree, but lines up with what you say later on.

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.

He never did answer that one :(
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 8:57 pm

Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).

Haha, yeah I agree, but lines up with what you say later on.

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.

He never did answer that one :(


Isn't it great though? Now that I have tapped into vast knowledge, I am ready to hear why the vast knowledge doesn't matter. :D

Of course I assert it has something to do with ruining the child's life. It's learned (sometimes the questions are just stupid, or the questioner is operating with a false premise/repeating lies)

and here is proof. people aren't born gay. It's learned. But if you want to argue that married gay couples do not try to teach their children about homosexuality, and that young children are not confused about sexuality, and young children are not vulnerable, or that young children who do not have a father in the home know what it's like to have a father in the home or know how a father acts, I'm all ears.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

“Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

“Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

“Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.

Even more remarkable, most of the changes occur without counseling or therapy. “These changes are not therapeutically induced, but happen ‘naturally’ in life, some very quickly,” Dr. Whitehead observes. “Most changes in sexual orientation are towards exclusive heterosexuality.”

Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive heterosexuality are greater than current numbers of bisexuals and homosexuals combined. In other words, ex-gays outnumber actual gays.

The fluidity is even more pronounced among adolescents, as Bearman and Brueckner’s study demonstrated. “They found that from 16 to 17-years-old, if a person had a romantic attraction to the same sex, almost all had switched one year later.”

“The authors were pro-gay and they commented that the only stability was among the heterosexuals, who stayed the same year after year. Adolescents are a special case—generally changing their attractions from year to year.”

Still, many misconceptions persist in the popular culture. Namely, that homosexuality is genetic – so hard-wired into one’s identity that it can’t be changed. “The academics who work in the field are not happy with the portrayals by the media on the subject,” Dr. Whitehead notes. “But they prefer to stick with their academic research and not get involved in the activist side.”

Even though same-sex attraction is not genetic, Dr. Whitehead disagrees with those who content that homosexuals “choose” their orientation. “There can be little informed, responsible choice involved if first attraction is about age 10,” he notes. “At that age no-one chooses lifetime sexual orientation or lifestyle in any usual sense. SSA is discovered to exist in oneself rather than chosen.”
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Re: Marriage

Postby thegreekdog on Mon May 20, 2013 9:37 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:It wasnt simply a one step process where the kid said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!"

It sounds like the diagnosis is pretty sound and the symptoms have been present for a number of years (since age of 3 if the article is accurate). Since 1 in 30000 people (according to wiki article on disorder) have the disorder it was just a matter of time that a story like this popped up.



How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.


Why did you ask Lootifer the question? Couldn't you look it up yourself?

If you are against federal recognition of gay marriage, you should provide reasons why. Nothing you've provided in this thread are reasons why you are against federal recognition of gay marriage. You appear to be against gay proms, gay adoption, any gays raising children, and the move of U.S. culture towards acceptance of gays. These are certainly related to gay marriage, but are points used by those that are not desirous of freedom of choice for gays.

You mention studies saying that being gay may not be genetic. Why does that matter? What does genetic disposition have to do with gay marriage? What does genteic disposition have to do with anything at all?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 9:41 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
How long have married gay people been able to adopt kids?


Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.


Why did you ask Lootifer the question? Couldn't you look it up yourself?



I asked Lootifer the question, because I was curious about Lootifers answers. IS THAT OKAY WITH THE GREEKDOG??

seriously, wtf
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Re: Marriage

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Why do you pretend that you've accepted Minnesota's decision? You keep posting anti-gay propaganda and views.

And if you want to know why I care so much, it's because you talk about how you're in favor of limited government, BUT YOU REALLY AREN'T! Stop making the rest of us look bad. Seriously.


so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.


Why did you ask Lootifer the question? Couldn't you look it up yourself?



I asked Lootifer the question, because I was curious about Lootifers answers. IS THAT OKAY WITH THE GREEKDOG??

seriously, wtf


You seem to have overlooked the rest of thegreekdog's posts. I'm sure it was just an oversight, because you've stated plainly that you don't ignore reasonable questions. Or was thegreekdog just trolling?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 20, 2013 10:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).

Haha, yeah I agree, but lines up with what you say later on.

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.

He never did answer that one :(


Isn't it great though? Now that I have tapped into vast knowledge, I am ready to hear why the vast knowledge doesn't matter. :D

Of course I assert it has something to do with ruining the child's life. It's learned (sometimes the questions are just stupid, or the questioner is operating with a false premise/repeating lies)

and here is proof. people aren't born gay. It's learned. But if you want to argue that married gay couples do not try to teach their children about homosexuality, and that young children are not confused about sexuality, and young children are not vulnerable, or that young children who do not have a father in the home know what it's like to have a father in the home or know how a father acts, I'm all ears.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

“Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

“Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

“Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.

Even more remarkable, most of the changes occur without counseling or therapy. “These changes are not therapeutically induced, but happen ‘naturally’ in life, some very quickly,” Dr. Whitehead observes. “Most changes in sexual orientation are towards exclusive heterosexuality.”

Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive heterosexuality are greater than current numbers of bisexuals and homosexuals combined. In other words, ex-gays outnumber actual gays.

The fluidity is even more pronounced among adolescents, as Bearman and Brueckner’s study demonstrated. “They found that from 16 to 17-years-old, if a person had a romantic attraction to the same sex, almost all had switched one year later.”

“The authors were pro-gay and they commented that the only stability was among the heterosexuals, who stayed the same year after year. Adolescents are a special case—generally changing their attractions from year to year.”

Still, many misconceptions persist in the popular culture. Namely, that homosexuality is genetic – so hard-wired into one’s identity that it can’t be changed. “The academics who work in the field are not happy with the portrayals by the media on the subject,” Dr. Whitehead notes. “But they prefer to stick with their academic research and not get involved in the activist side.”

Even though same-sex attraction is not genetic, Dr. Whitehead disagrees with those who content that homosexuals “choose” their orientation. “There can be little informed, responsible choice involved if first attraction is about age 10,” he notes. “At that age no-one chooses lifetime sexual orientation or lifestyle in any usual sense. SSA is discovered to exist in oneself rather than chosen.”

Quoting for later reference.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).

Haha, yeah I agree, but lines up with what you say later on.

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.

He never did answer that one :(


Isn't it great though? Now that I have tapped into vast knowledge, I am ready to hear why the vast knowledge doesn't matter. :D

Of course I assert it has something to do with ruining the child's life. It's learned (sometimes the questions are just stupid, or the questioner is operating with a false premise/repeating lies)

and here is proof. people aren't born gay. It's learned. But if you want to argue that married gay couples do not try to teach their children about homosexuality, and that young children are not confused about sexuality, and young children are not vulnerable, or that young children who do not have a father in the home know what it's like to have a father in the home or know how a father acts, I'm all ears.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

“Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

“Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

“Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.

Even more remarkable, most of the changes occur without counseling or therapy. “These changes are not therapeutically induced, but happen ‘naturally’ in life, some very quickly,” Dr. Whitehead observes. “Most changes in sexual orientation are towards exclusive heterosexuality.”

Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive heterosexuality are greater than current numbers of bisexuals and homosexuals combined. In other words, ex-gays outnumber actual gays.

The fluidity is even more pronounced among adolescents, as Bearman and Brueckner’s study demonstrated. “They found that from 16 to 17-years-old, if a person had a romantic attraction to the same sex, almost all had switched one year later.”

“The authors were pro-gay and they commented that the only stability was among the heterosexuals, who stayed the same year after year. Adolescents are a special case—generally changing their attractions from year to year.”

Still, many misconceptions persist in the popular culture. Namely, that homosexuality is genetic – so hard-wired into one’s identity that it can’t be changed. “The academics who work in the field are not happy with the portrayals by the media on the subject,” Dr. Whitehead notes. “But they prefer to stick with their academic research and not get involved in the activist side.”

Even though same-sex attraction is not genetic, Dr. Whitehead disagrees with those who content that homosexuals “choose” their orientation. “There can be little informed, responsible choice involved if first attraction is about age 10,” he notes. “At that age no-one chooses lifetime sexual orientation or lifestyle in any usual sense. SSA is discovered to exist in oneself rather than chosen.”

Quoting for later reference.


uh, okay, that's fine, but you are focusing on me again, not the issue. So, per the study that shows homosexuality is not genetic, do you have any comments? Or is all you get from that a future gotchya opportunity?
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Re: Marriage

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 10:20 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
so...how long???

And your position expands government. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just continuing to tell lies about me. Either way, I didn't have much respect left for you in the first place, but you are just talking out of your ass now.

If you want to explain how redefining marriage = more limited government, I will give you the rostrum and listen.


See, again, here's the thing - whether or not a gay married couple can adopt has nothing to do with limited government or redefining marriage. Virtually none of your posts in this thread have anything to do with gay marriage. You talked about gay adoption, gay couples and sex changes for their children, gay people going to prom, and the effect of gays on culture. You've completely ignored the concept of gay marriage.

Your stated position on gay marriage is that it should be left to the states.

But then you argue against gay marriage using, again, things like gay adoption, gay people going to prom, gays on televisions. None of those things have to do with limited government or limited federal government.

So I need to choose to characterize you as either a limited government guy (where you would make an argument like I do) or as someone who is against gay marriage (where you would make the arguments that you make about gay proms).

Before I answer your question, answer this question first - what does the year in which gay people could adopt children have to do with government recognition of gay marriage?


That has nothing to do with why I asked Lootifer the question, which related to something Lootifer said before. Adoption, I have to agree, doesn't really have an impact on limited government. Of course, I never have thought it did, or tried to say it was. So idk wtf you are talking about, unless you are doing this on purpose.

I just asked Lootifer a question, and besides everyone trying to get in the way and yell as loud as they can, I still await an answer.


Why did you ask Lootifer the question? Couldn't you look it up yourself?



I asked Lootifer the question, because I was curious about Lootifers answers. IS THAT OKAY WITH THE GREEKDOG??

seriously, wtf


You seem to have overlooked the rest of thegreekdog's posts. I'm sure it was just an oversight, because you've stated plainly that you don't ignore reasonable questions. Or was thegreekdog just trolling?


You are trying to blame me for something that is your specialty??

I saw them, I read them. What you overlooked is that the questions are asked under a false premise, not to mention are way down the path of budging in on me and Loot's conversation, to which other have very successfully tried to bury.

First, I deal with the first issue, me and Lootifer and the question I asked him. Then, when Greekdog understands that I asked the question for totally different reasons than he assumed, and when he sees what my question was trying to accomplish, THEN he will be asking very different questions. I'm not dealing with them because the premise is flawed, and the case he is questioning me on is not the case I was trying to make, so the questions he is asking do not ask about what I was trying to say, they ask about what he thinks I was trying to say, which I wasn't trying to say. But now I am just uncovering your strategy, to twist things out of context into a question that doesn't deal at all with what we were talking about, and then you can accuse me of dodging questions of which their only intent was to confuse the conversation.

So we need to back up, because you have been trying to protect him from answering the question for about 3 pages.
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Re: Marriage

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 20, 2013 10:57 pm

I am relatively impressed by the article; seems fairly sound. I do wish it was not found on a god blog, but i'll overlook that for obvious reasons...

Its an interesting study, however it is certainly not the leading, nor definitive study on the matter. There have been, as expected, many studies into this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_an ... rientation

Provides a pretty good summary (and being wikipedia they do at least attempt to be neutral).

Basically there are a number of reasons why twin homosexual concordance may not be 100%, though other studies on twins have found high levels of concordance.

So you saying with definitive certainty that "homosexuality is not something you are born with, it is something you learn" is not correct. There is certainly some evidence in your favor, but there are equal amounts of evidence that homosexuality is a trait you are born with.

The reality is currently unknown. What is most likely (from my point view) is that there is a spectrum of biological/genetic/hormonal attributes that at one end point to "likely to be gay", and at the other "likely to be straight" with plenty of range inbetween. You then lay on early cognitive development, social conditioning and a whole lot of other external factors and the end result is someone who is gay, or not.

With respect to the specific case of the young girl; I think the parents are irrelevant in this case. The only difference having lesbian parents has made from my perspective is that they were more open to the little boy becoming a girl from a holistic point of view; it should be noted that even they were against the treatment to begin with. In no way to I think that because the little boy had lesbian parents made him want to be a girl. Do you think this?
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Re: Marriage

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue May 21, 2013 6:55 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not a disorder. That's the psychologists on the DSM-IV speaking--you know, the people who deemed homosexuality as a disorder (in the 1960s).

Haha, yeah I agree, but lines up with what you say later on.

Lootifer wrote:Are you asserting that the parents sexuality has something to do with the little boy having the gender disorder?


Great question. I'm sure PS can tap into his vast knowledge of gender identity and give us a worthy answer.

He never did answer that one :(


Isn't it great though? Now that I have tapped into vast knowledge, I am ready to hear why the vast knowledge doesn't matter. :D


Of course I assert it has something to do with ruining the child's life. It's learned (sometimes the questions are just stupid, or the questioner is operating with a false premise/repeating lies)

and here is proof. people aren't born gay. It's learned. But if you want to argue that married gay couples do not try to teach their children about homosexuality, and that young children are not confused about sexuality, and young children are not vulnerable, or that young children who do not have a father in the home know what it's like to have a father in the home or know how a father acts, I'm all ears.

It would be really, really, nice if you actually bothered to STUDY and LEARN science before you start blathering on more with your misinformation.\

ONE instance does not prove anything. Among other issues,even the most "identical" of twins is not necessarily a true 100% genetic match. Also, no one is claiming that the tie-in is absolute. That is, saying there is a genetic link or a biologic link (previously you have ignored that there could be a distinction there, but it is very significant... hormone influxes in the womb, for example would impact both fetus', but would not be a genetic cause) doesn't mean that every single set of twins will be of the same sexuality, it means that the rate of same sexuality is much, MUCH higher among twins than other areas of the population.

Beyond that, the fact that the standards have changed is not a failure of science, it is a success. Beyond that, there is a LOT we still need to learn in the area of psychology. Among other issues, testing can be very, very difficult.

And yeah.... why does the genetic link even matter for THIS debate. Aren't we supposed to be a nation that represents freedom of choice... and don't you claim to be a heavy advocate of that freedom?
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