Well-regulated militias

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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:16 pm

Forget about trying to imagine what a militia might look like under today's circumstances. At the time when militias would need to be called upon, you will have long been going to bed hungry and a fight would already be well underway.


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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:29 am

Phatscotty, you're becoming a good example of a negative externality.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:38 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Phatscotty, you're becoming a good example of a negative externality.


damnit...

I just thought that clip was a good example of how a militia would actually operate and what the conditions would be in order for them to be actually called upon
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby tzor on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:24 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:So moving past the irrelevant ooge and PLAYER comments,

what would the federal government's reaction be if a group of people took seriously the 2nd Amendment by forming their own well-regulated militia?


Good question. Say what ever happened to those guys who banded together to protect the southern border?

Doing pretty good as of last year.

Arizona Militias Gain Momentum After Citizen Border Group Bill is Defeated

Not sure about 2013.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby ooge on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:45 pm

As long as the government does not view a few guys playing army with themselves, "a militia" as a threat, they will ignore it.Once they view it as a threat the government will squash it like a bug.It seems to me that millitia people when faced with a real situation will pee their pants and cry for their mommy's
Last edited by ooge on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby tzor on Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:50 pm

It should be pointed out, if you really want to go with what the second amendment is supposed to be about, that "militias" are state entities. Not that the Federal Government cares a wit anymore what the states do or think these days, but militias were supposed to be the jurisdiction of the states at the time the Constitution was written. So if the state is cool with a "private" militia then that should be enough; if not, then they are illegal.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby ooge on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:05 pm

tzor wrote:It should be pointed out, if you really want to go with what the second amendment is supposed to be about, that "militias" are state entities. Not that the Federal Government cares a wit anymore what the states do or think these days, but militias were supposed to be the jurisdiction of the states at the time the Constitution was written. So if the state is cool with a "private" militia then that should be enough; if not, then they are illegal.


that is how The guard ended up in Iraq.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:26 am

ooge wrote:As long as the government does not view a few guys playing army with themselves, "a militia" as a threat, they will ignore it.Once they view it as a threat the government will squash it like a bug.It seems to me that millitia people when faced with a really situation will pee their pants and cry for their mommy's


I'm actually not sure how the relevant bureaucrats view private militias within US borders, but there seems to have been a bad history for any militia which arms itself.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:27 am

tzor wrote:It should be pointed out, if you really want to go with what the second amendment is supposed to be about, that "militias" are state entities. Not that the Federal Government cares a wit anymore what the states do or think these days, but militias were supposed to be the jurisdiction of the states at the time the Constitution was written. So if the state is cool with a "private" militia then that should be enough; if not, then they are illegal.


Interesting, but I'll settle on the scholars' interpretation instead.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby ooge on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:43 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:As long as the government does not view a few guys playing army with themselves, "a militia" as a threat, they will ignore it.Once they view it as a threat the government will squash it like a bug.It seems to me that millitia people when faced with a real situation will pee their pants and cry for their mommy's


I'm actually not sure how the relevant bureaucrats view private militias within US borders, but there seems to have been a bad history for any militia which arms itself.


You could have just said you agreed with me :lol:
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:53 am

Militias are banned under the Arizona constitution, I think ...

Arizona Declaration of Rights

The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp ... t/2/26.htm
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:44 am

saxitoxin wrote:Militias are banned under the Arizona constitution, I think ...

Arizona Declaration of Rights

The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp ... t/2/26.htm


Armed body of men? I think I spotted a loophole.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:55 am

ooge wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:As long as the government does not view a few guys playing army with themselves, "a militia" as a threat, they will ignore it.Once they view it as a threat the government will squash it like a bug.It seems to me that millitia people when faced with a real situation will pee their pants and cry for their mommy's


I'm actually not sure how the relevant bureaucrats view private militias within US borders, but there seems to have been a bad history for any militia which arms itself.


You could have just said you agreed with me :lol:


I kinda want to agree, but that would be too easy. I must continue fighting for Justice.

(I want to say that the government will tend to view any well-regulated, private militia as a threat to its own hold on The People, so it'll find ways to justify crushing such forms of self-government).
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:56 am

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Militias are banned under the Arizona constitution, I think ...

Arizona Declaration of Rights

The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp ... t/2/26.htm


Armed body of men? I think I spotted a loophole.



I'd join that.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby patches70 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:04 am

I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:06 am

patches70 wrote:I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!


I'm a proud, non-card-carrying member of the Troll Forest Brigade, but I don't recall signing up for "the militia."
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby patches70 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:24 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!


I'm a proud, non-card-carrying member of the Troll Forest Brigade, but I don't recall signing up for "the militia."


You certainly didn't sign up, but you are a member of the militia regardless. Should I explain or are you going to take my word for it?
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 am

patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!


I'm a proud, non-card-carrying member of the Troll Forest Brigade, but I don't recall signing up for "the militia."


You certainly didn't sign up, but you are a member of the militia regardless. Should I explain or are you going to take my word for it?


You're gonna hafta tease out your reasoning on this one.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby patches70 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:38 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!


I'm a proud, non-card-carrying member of the Troll Forest Brigade, but I don't recall signing up for "the militia."


You certainly didn't sign up, but you are a member of the militia regardless. Should I explain or are you going to take my word for it?


You're gonna hafta tease out your reasoning on this one.


Look, man, I gotta head out and do some work and won't be back until later tonight. I'll get more specific at that time. For now I'll leave you this to contemplate upon-

I want you to look at these pictures. Keep in mind that at the time these people were civilians who probably thought they weren't part of a militia either-

Image

Image

Image

These poor fools didn't think they had any obligations either. They learned the folly of their thinking eventually. Though I grant you that each and everyone was put into very tough positions where certain choices had to be made, and every choice sucked.

But indeed, you are in the militia whether you think you are or not and if circumstances came around similar to what these poor saps had to deal with, then you'll find that your "I never signed a contract" argument won't be worth the rope that is used to hang you with. Each and every citizen of the US is in the militia, the unorganized militia. I'm not saying it's fair, but life rarely is fair as you well know yourself.

But I'll explain in detail later. Till then, Tooddle Loo and keep up the good fight.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:00 am

patches70 wrote:But indeed, you are in the militia whether you think you are or not and if circumstances came around similar to what these poor saps had to deal with, then you'll find that your "I never signed a contract" argument won't be worth the rope that is used to hang you with. Each and every citizen of the US is in the militia, the unorganized militia. I'm not saying it's fair, but life rarely is fair as you well know yourself.

But I'll explain in detail later. Till then, Tooddle Loo and keep up the good fight.


According to the Wikipedia and the Militia Act of 1903, also known as the Dick Act (terrific name), "...every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who is not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia, are part of the 'unorganized militia'. [That is anyone who would be eligible for a draft.] Former members of the armed forces up to age 65 are also considered part of the 'unorganized militia' "


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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby tzor on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:10 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting, but I'll settle on the scholars' interpretation instead.


Like this one? THE MILITIA AND THE CONSTITUTION: A LEGAL HISTORY Educational purposes only; can't actually quote it.

Or this one RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS (Lincoln University of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)
When the U.S. Constitution was adopted, each of the states had its own "militia" - a military force comprised of ordinary citizens serving as part-time soldiers. The militia was "well-regulated" in the sense that its members were subject to various requirements such as training, supplying their own firearms, and engaging in military exercises away from home. It was a form of compulsory military service intended to protect the fledgling nation from outside forces and from internal rebellions.

The "militia" was not, as the gun lobby will often claim, simply another word for the people at large. Indeed, membership in the 18th century militia was generally limited to able-bodied white males between the ages of 18 and 45 - hardly encompassing the entire population of the nation.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:46 pm

tzor wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting, but I'll settle on the scholars' interpretation instead.


Like this one? THE MILITIA AND THE CONSTITUTION: A LEGAL HISTORY Educational purposes only; can't actually quote it.

Or this one RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS (Lincoln University of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)
When the U.S. Constitution was adopted, each of the states had its own "militia" - a military force comprised of ordinary citizens serving as part-time soldiers. The militia was "well-regulated" in the sense that its members were subject to various requirements such as training, supplying their own firearms, and engaging in military exercises away from home. It was a form of compulsory military service intended to protect the fledgling nation from outside forces and from internal rebellions.

The "militia" was not, as the gun lobby will often claim, simply another word for the people at large. Indeed, membership in the 18th century militia was generally limited to able-bodied white males between the ages of 18 and 45 - hardly encompassing the entire population of the nation.


Still not seeing that:

(1) " "militias" are state entities." (Sure, each State had a militia, but it doesn't follow that all militias are 'state entities'--whatever that term may mean to you).

(2) "militias were supposed to be the jurisdiction of the states at the time the Constitution was written. " (Still not seeing how militias were SUPPOSE to be under the jurisdiction of each State. It doesn't state that in the Constitution, nor does your source's definition of "militia" confirm either of your points).

The underlined is irrelevant.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:53 pm

patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I don't know why you are asking the question about militias that you are. How is it that you don't know anything about what you already are? You are an American citizen, BBS? Then you are part of the militia. Unless you are in the military, and for some reason you don't strike me as the professional soldier type. I could be wrong about that, but if I'm not, then you already belong to the militia. Whether you like it or not!


I'm a proud, non-card-carrying member of the Troll Forest Brigade, but I don't recall signing up for "the militia."


You certainly didn't sign up, but you are a member of the militia regardless. Should I explain or are you going to take my word for it?


You're gonna hafta tease out your reasoning on this one.


Look, man, I gotta head out and do some work and won't be back until later tonight. I'll get more specific at that time. For now I'll leave you this to contemplate upon-

I want you to look at these pictures. Keep in mind that at the time these people were civilians who probably thought they weren't part of a militia either-

Image

Image

Image

These poor fools didn't think they had any obligations either. They learned the folly of their thinking eventually. Though I grant you that each and everyone was put into very tough positions where certain choices had to be made, and every choice sucked.

But indeed, you are in the militia whether you think you are or not and if circumstances came around similar to what these poor saps had to deal with, then you'll find that your "I never signed a contract" argument won't be worth the rope that is used to hang you with. Each and every citizen of the US is in the militia, the unorganized militia. I'm not saying it's fair, but life rarely is fair as you well know yourself.

But I'll explain in detail later. Till then, Tooddle Loo and keep up the good fight.


Sure, any group of armed thugs can conscript you. I wouldn't say that this makes me a member of the unorganized militia. I'm simply susceptible to temporary slavery by criminal organizations---oops, I mean by the government.
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Postby 2dimes on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:01 pm

When does troll forest bridge meet in Montana? Can someone store my weapons? Taking them back and forth is a bother.
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Re: Well-regulated militias

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:41 pm

On the Cyberwebz, we travel faster than the speed of light, so no worries 'bout all that.
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