Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

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Should the Boston Bomber get the Death Penalty?

Yes
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45%
No
19
50%
Torture the kittens
2
5%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:08 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Boston Bombing Hero Who Identified Suspect Resorts To Online Fundraising To Pay His Medical Bills (UPDATED)



In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombings on Monday, Jeff Bauman’s image was seared into the American consciousness. An extremely graphic photo of Bauman being escorted in a wheelchair with most of his legs blown off quickly went viral. Bauman’s stock rose even further after reports surfaced that he had looked into the eyes of one of the bombing suspects minutes before the explosion, and that the moment he awoke from emergency care, he gave law enforcement critical information that substantially narrowed their field of suspects. But while police continue to scour the streets for at-large suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 27-year-old Bauman is scouring the internet for donations to help pay for his outsized medical bills.

Bauman’s friends created the page “Bucks For Bauman!” on the gofundme.com crowdfunding service. The money raised through donations to the site are meant to help Jeff and his family pay the exorbitant costs of his surgeries, ongoing medical care, and physical therapy. Since Tuesday, when the site was launched, Americans from across the country have poured in $158,294 in donations — over half of the overall $300,000 goal.

Bauman has been fortunate enough to receive an impressive number of donations to help him pay his bills, and his uncle plans to buy him his first pair of prosthetic legs. But many other victims in the Boston bombings may not be as fortunate. The cost of treating the bombing survivors’ injuries is expected to exceed $9 million. The out-of-pocket costs associated with that treatment could bury many of the victims financially, even if they do have insurance — unless hospitals, insurers, and charitable foundations swoop in to help, as they did after the mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado.


Obviously Bauman is lying or this is a scam. Obamacare is now in place and, even if it wasn't, Massachusetts has had Romneycare - on which Obamacare is modeled - for awhile.

In keeping with my previous pledge not to criticize Obama until May if Hagel was approved, I hereby denounce Bauman as a sniveling Tea Partier or Naderite who is simply trying to embarass Obama.


:shock:
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:11 pm

saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


I don't rule out the federal government comin in dick swingin taking over the case, if for any reason, "just cuz it's big"

Actually, there still might be a tie between that guy that got deported back to Saudi Arabia and "links to terrorism"....but was not charged. I think that was the first guy they announced they had, then said they didn't have him. The media won't touch it
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby nietzsche on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:21 pm

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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:29 pm

saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


Oh, the AP says for using a "Weapon of Mass Destruction." - http://www.ydr.com/ci_23071438/boston-m ... eavy-guard

Not that it's ever stopped me before, but - at the risk of armchair lawyering - I still don't understand how this would qualify under these conditions ...

A person who, without lawful authority, uses, threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass destruction—

(1) against a national of the United States while such national is outside of the United States;

(2) against any person or property within the United States, and

    (A) the mail or any facility of interstate or foreign commerce is used in furtherance of the offense;
    (B) such property is used in interstate or foreign commerce or in an activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce;
    (C) any perpetrator travels in or causes another to travel in interstate or foreign commerce in furtherance of the offense; or
    (D) the offense, or the results of the offense, affect interstate or foreign commerce, or, in the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected interstate or foreign commerce;
(3) against any property that is owned, leased or used by the United States or by any department or agency of the United States, whether the property is within or outside of the United States; or

(4) against any property within the United States that is owned, leased, or used by a foreign government,

shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, and if death results, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:42 pm

The election will play in this too, as I bet whatever happens, the verdict will come about 3 months before the election in 2014
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:45 pm

Wow, I always thought jimboston was named Boss and was from Jamestown.mthis thread has been an eye-opener.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:16 am

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.


of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...


I'm not seeing the relevance here.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:21 am

saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Night Strike on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:45 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.


of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...


I'm not seeing the relevance here.


"Resorted to" implies the government should have been providing the care or the hospital/insurance should have paid for it all.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:08 am

Night Strike wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.


of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...


I'm not seeing the relevance here.


"Resorted to" implies the government should have been providing the care or the hospital/insurance should have paid for it all.


thanks Strike! I was just gonna let it go...but yeah the title of JB's post about the bombing victim was along the lines of "bombing victims resorts to online donations/charity (free markets)" Resorts to suggests "something is wrong here"

I guess the implication, as I see it, is that this person should be fully taken care of no matter what, presumably by the state, and I would further speculate this is a spring board to a larger-overall fund with the built in sympathy the victims are forced to resort to the free market. Most likely a marketing strat or an IMC
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:22 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.


Yes, but there seems to be a few carts before horses here. The FBI got involved well before anyone could have known whether this was a case of "targeting innocent civilians for a political goal." Evidently setting off an explosion in a public area is enough to count? I too am confused as to how this could be a federal case, although not terribly surprised that he's currently in federal custody.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:38 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.


Yes, but there seems to be a few carts before horses here. The FBI got involved well before anyone could have known whether this was a case of "targeting innocent civilians for a political goal." Evidently setting off an explosion in a public area is enough to count? I too am confused as to how this could be a federal case, although not terribly surprised that he's currently in federal custody.


The FBI and the federal government aren't that picky, and the FBI have the capital and experience with this situations. I wouldn't want some dumbass city cops figuring out what a pressure cooker is. (Also, note: "terrorism" is defined very broadly, so even if the perpetrator doesn't state a political goal, his having a beard, being a radical Islamic believer, etc. is probably enough----however, if it isn't, then they'll charge him with something else to get the same outcome).

That's just how this works. Bomb kills civilians? Federal government (via FBI) get involved. (They may even label the Chechen as an international terrorist, thus bringing it within the federal government's scope--but that would be a more 'after-the-fact' justification).
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:10 pm

Word is he's being held as an enemy combatant...

an interesting video
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby jimboston on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:49 am

saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


That's how.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby jimboston on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 am

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?


I don't rule out the federal government comin in dick swingin taking over the case, if for any reason, "just cuz it's big"

Actually, there still might be a tie between that guy that got deported back to Saudi Arabia and "links to terrorism"....but was not charged. I think that was the first guy they announced they had, then said they didn't have him. The media won't touch it


If they got material help or were involved in a conspiracy with anyone outside the State it would/could be a Federal case.

If they transported bomb-making equipment across State lines it could be a Federal case.

Saxi is just being Saxi.
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