Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

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Should the Boston Bomber get the Death Penalty?

Yes
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45%
No
19
50%
Torture the kittens
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5%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby jimboston on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:52 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Wow, I always thought jimboston was named Boss and was from Jamestown.mthis thread has been an eye-opener.


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Postby 2dimes on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:02 am

Good to see you here James. How's the mood among your friends and family?
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Re:

Postby jimboston on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:50 pm

2dimes wrote:Good to see you here James. How's the mood among your friends and family?



People are relieved now.

Earlier in the week people really just couldn't believe it.
All you heard was "this is crazy".

I don't know anyone personally who was injured... I know several people who know people, but nothing has impacted me directly.

I have family in Watertown... I don't think they were overly "scared" on Friday.
They certainly got little-to-no sleep... and really were "locked-down" on Friday... but everyone seemed OK.

I have some "friends" on the local PD... not really current friends that I hang out with now, more like people I went ti High School with and grew up with. So I haven't talked to any of them since Friday. I can imagine they are happy.

It's certainly a big news story... but day-to-day people have already started to move-on.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:27 am

Lessons from Boston and Chechnya

We cannot bring back the stolen lives. We cannot bring back the lost limbs or the lost hearing. And we cannot mitigate the infinite grief of the victims' loved ones.

But there is something we can and must do: We must learn all the lessons we can.

Here are some:

1. The gulf between the decent and the indecent

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older brother, once told an interviewer before a Golden Gloves boxing competition: "I don't have a single American friend. I don't understand them."

The reason Tsarnaev didn't understand Americans was not primarily cultural. Tsarnaev came to America when he was 14 or 15, an age when the vast majority of immigrants to America have assimilated quite successfully.

Rather, the reason was that the indecent don't understand the decent, just as the decent don't understand the indecent.

One of the greatest insights I learned as a young man came from reading Viktor Frankl's seminal work, "Man's Search for Meaning." Frankl was a Jewish psychoanalyst who survived Auschwitz, where nearly every member of his family, including his wife, was murdered. His conclusion: "There are two races of men in this world but only these two. The race of the decent man and the race of the indecent man."

Those "races" do not understand one another. But more important than understanding the indecent is overpowering and, when necessary, destroying the indecent.

2. Any religion or ideology that is above good and evil produces enormous evil.

For tens of millions of Muslims today, Islam is beyond good and evil: The infidel may be decent, but that is of no importance to the radical Islamist. For example, to become a "more religious" Muslim, Tamerlan Tsarnaev gave up boxing, marijuana, tobacco and even not wearing a shirt in the presence of females. Tsarnaev believed Islam forbade those things -- none of which is an evil. But when it came to the greatest evil -- murder (of non-Muslims) -- his religion was not only silent, it was enthusiastically supportive.

Likewise, communists in the Soviet Union, China and elsewhere -- and their many supporters in the West -- raised the creation of egalitarian society and industrialization above good and evil. And Nazism elevated race above good and evil. The environmentalists who oppose vitamin A-injected rice in the Third World place their agenda above good and evil.

Unfortunately, most religious and secular ideologues find preoccupation with human decency boring. The greatest moral idea in history, ethical monotheism, doesn't excite most people.

3. A victimhood identity produces cruelty.

The Tsarnaev brothers' primary self-perception was that of being Chechen victims, and that plus their religious convictions allowed them to blow up men, women and children with a perfectly clear conscience. Even when victimhood status is objectively true -- which it was not for these brothers, who were among the spectacularly fortunate few to be able to live in freedom and with unlimited opportunities -- nothing provides people with as good a reason to commit atrocities as does a victim mentality.

4. Happiness is a moral issue.

Happiness is not an emotional state so much as it is a moral imperative. In general, those who act happy make the world better and those who act unhappy make it worse. This is equally true in the micro and macro realms. It is not surprising, therefore, that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was described by a cousin, Zaur Tsarnaev, in this way: "He was never happy, never cheering, never smiling."

5. Boys will be bad men if they had no good men.

It is apparent that the younger brother Dzhokhar was deeply influenced by his brother, Tamerlan, who was seven years older. All of us who have an older brother, especially with a large age gap, know that he has a god-like status in the eyes of a young boy.

If good men do not inspire boys, bad men will. Without good older men in boys' lives, those boys are likely to grow up and do bad things. See our inner cities for further confirmation.

6. Universities and the left generally continue to deny any link between Muslim terrorists and their Muslim beliefs.

Just as in previous acts of Islamist terror, the left in general, and university professors in particular, continue to argue that it is wrong -- actually bigoted -- to associate these terrorists' religious beliefs with their terrorism.

Michael Eric Dyson, Georgetown professor of sociology: "So you take one part of the element, that he's Muslim. But he also might have listened to classical music. He might have had some Lil Wayne."

MSNBC host Melissa Harris- Perry: "I keep wondering is it possible that there would ever be a discussion like, 'This is because of Ben Affleck and the connection between Boston and movies about violence?' And of course, the answer is no. ... Our very sense of connection to them is this framed-up notion of, like, Islam making them something that is non-normal."

Zaheer Ali -- Harvard graduate, recipient of Columbia University's Merit Scholars Graduate Fellowship, recipient of the Social Science Research Council's Mellon Mays Pre-Doctoral Research Grant -- on MSNBC: "It isn't Muslim that is a common thing here, it's people who are alienated."

Professor Brian Levin -- director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino (formerly associate director of the Southern Poverty Law Center) -- to Bill Maher:

"Look, it's not like people who are Muslim who do wacky things have a monopoly on it. We have hypocrites across faiths, Jewish, Christian who say they're out for God and end up doing not so nice things."

Bill Maher's response: "That's liberal bullshit."

And that's what our children are routinely taught.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 18082.html


Last edited by Phatscotty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:42 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:29 am

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Re:

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:56 am

2dimes wrote:What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html


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Re:

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:15 am

2dimes wrote:What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html


Islam is making fools of the American (and now Canadian) people, or rather helping them broadcast their ignorance. Seems to be the only thing that Bush and Obama worked together on.


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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:41 am

Just as in previous acts of Islamist terror, the left in general, and university professors in particular, continue to argue that it is wrong -- actually bigoted -- to associate these terrorists' religious beliefs with their terrorism.


Today, April 24, 2013, the U.S. FBI only has one active, unsolved, terrorist bombing investigation: the murder of Alex Odeh, an Arab Christian, in Orange County. The night before the attack, Odeh had been in an argument on Nightline with Irv Rubin, the Supreme Commander of the terrorist group "Jewish Defense League." A $1 million reward remains unclaimed for the capture of the JDL bombers, whose attack also permanently injured several innocent American bystanders, including an OC Sheriff's deputy. The FBI's primary suspects fled to the terrorist stronghold of Israel before they could be questioned and the Israeli regime has refused cooperation with U.S. law enforcement.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/ ... chel-odeh/

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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:06 am

In the fight against the "malaria" of this jihadism, Obama and the West have been successful in killing many of the top "mosquitoes" including OBL, but their reluctance to drain the swamps for fear of offending the swamp keepers -- Pakistan and Saudi Arabia -- has ensured every jihadi terrorist killed leaves behind enough larvae to harvest millions more.


When someone starts using metaphors that equate humans with cockroaches/larvae/etc it's probably time to stop taking them seriously. Just a short step from there to the conclusion that we must "exterminate the infestation".
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:37 am

I equate any human who casually but purposely takes innocent civilian human lives with cockroaches/larvae/etc. - with apologies to the cockroaches/larvae/etc. This of course would include most of our presidents. Personally i'd like to see the infestation terminated, but i wouldn't put such power in the hands of the U.S. government for obvious reasons.


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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Armandolas on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:51 am

dEATH PENALTY IS MURDER...a tool for antidemocratic underdeveloped countries(at least mentaly)

But f*ck yeah...invade Chekoslovakia for the bombing :shock:
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Re: Re:

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:58 am

b.k. barunt wrote:
2dimes wrote:What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html


Islam is making fools of the American (and now Canadian) people, or rather helping them broadcast their ignorance. Seems to be the only thing that Bush and Obama worked together on.


Honibaz


And the bailouts.
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Re: Re:

Postby patches70 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:27 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:
2dimes wrote:What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html


Islam is making fools of the American (and now Canadian) people, or rather helping them broadcast their ignorance. Seems to be the only thing that Bush and Obama worked together on.


Honibaz


And the bailouts.


And the wars.
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Re: Re:

Postby The Voice on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:36 am

patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:
2dimes wrote:What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html


Islam is making fools of the American (and now Canadian) people, or rather helping them broadcast their ignorance. Seems to be the only thing that Bush and Obama worked together on.


Honibaz


And the bailouts.


And the wars.


And their respectively graying hairs.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:55 am

b.k. barunt wrote:I equate any human who casually but purposely takes innocent civilian human lives with cockroaches/larvae/etc. - with apologies to the cockroaches/larvae/etc. This of course would include most of our presidents. Personally i'd like to see the infestation terminated, but i wouldn't put such power in the hands of the U.S. government for obvious reasons.


Honibaz


I'm hesitant to agree. If 'the tables were turned', then more of us who are hardly exposed to terrorism would actually support it. For example, it worked to the IRA's benefit, and some of their key leaders took legitimate positions in politics. The same goes for Israel's Irgun and their colorful history of terrorism.

Sometimes, it takes the loss of innocent lives to retain sovereignty/freedom over a boundary. If Howard Zinn's book on US history is correct, then even the revolutionary forces coerced citizens to join the revolt and--from my interpretation--used terrorism to suppress dissent. In today's terms, 'ethnic' cleansing was occurring against the Loyalists and neutral groups.

So, are you saying all those people are equivalent to cockroaches/larvae? Even people like George Washington?
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:37 pm

I suppose that it could be a question of degrees and fine points. If Hitler was on a bus full of children would i blow up the bus? Because of my own experience in the military i doubt that i would be able to, but i could understand someone doing such a thing to save countless other lives. Bombing a city full of people to destroy a bioweapons plant, same thing. However, blowing up a crowd of civilians at an event that has no bearing whatsover on anything military is cowardice in its lowest form. Cockroaches i'd say.


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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:57 pm

Has anyone read the reports on motive. Yahoo had a headline about the young guy talking. Their headlines are great and their "news" articles are horrendious. I couldn't bring myself to click the link.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:55 pm

A quick perusal of the Koran should answer your question as far as motive goes. Infidels (like the U.S., known to muslims as "The Great Satan") are not to be allowed on Islamic soil (like Iraq maybe?)


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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby crispybits on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:52 pm

Evidence emerging that the Boston PD have some impressive technology

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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:55 pm

I broke down and read the Yahoo story. Here's a nice snippet.

Dylan Stableford wrote:at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center since his capture on Friday


In my opinion they need to transfer him to a nice Chinese hospital to administer some pork products.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:12 pm

b.k. barunt wrote:I suppose that it could be a question of degrees and fine points. If Hitler was on a bus full of children would i blow up the bus? Because of my own experience in the military i doubt that i would be able to, but i could understand someone doing such a thing to save countless other lives. Bombing a city full of people to destroy a bioweapons plant, same thing. However, blowing up a crowd of civilians at an event that has no bearing whatsover on anything military is cowardice in its lowest form. Cockroaches i'd say.


Honibaz


Well, it does have a significant bearing on the US military. How does one get the US to spend $1-3 trillion on wars in Iraq and AFG and an international war across the Middle East and North Africa? Fly two planes into two tall US buildings; for icing, target the Pentagon and Camp David.

Terrorism can be extremely cost-effective and isn't at all cowardice. It takes a lot to kill yourself or to wage a war against the Strongest Country in the World.


The 'underwear' bomber didn't kill anyone, and had insurance companies and airliners face billions in underestimated costs due to risk.

All of these terrorist incidents in the US reaffirm the public's desire to endure a marginal loss in civil liberties for more perceived security (the latest poll shows that the desire is declining, but I'd expect the "National Security State" to ignore that while it wages its wars). Terrorism can get the government's counter-terrorism to become counter-productive.

Ha, World's Mightiest Cockroaches, but if anyone's a cockroach, it would be those who subsidize oppressive regimes, something which many terrorists dislike and are responding to.
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby b.k. barunt on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:59 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Well, it does have a significant bearing on the US military. How does one get the US to spend $1-3 trillion on wars in Iraq and AFG and an international war across the Middle East and North Africa? Fly two planes into two tall US buildings; for icing, target the Pentagon and Camp David.

Terrorism can be extremely cost-effective and isn't at all cowardice. It takes a lot to kill yourself or to wage a war against the Strongest Country in the World.


The Boston bomber was not suicidal like the 911 boys. He planted a bomb and thought he could do so undetected. He killed women and children in a cowardly fashion - if he had any balls he could have hit a military target or at least a police station. I wouldn't call the 911 boys cowards, but the Boston bomber was a coward.


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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:42 pm

b.k. barunt wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Well, it does have a significant bearing on the US military. How does one get the US to spend $1-3 trillion on wars in Iraq and AFG and an international war across the Middle East and North Africa? Fly two planes into two tall US buildings; for icing, target the Pentagon and Camp David.

Terrorism can be extremely cost-effective and isn't at all cowardice. It takes a lot to kill yourself or to wage a war against the Strongest Country in the World.


The Boston bomber was not suicidal like the 911 boys. He planted a bomb and thought he could do so undetected. He killed women and children in a cowardly fashion - if he had any balls he could have hit a military target or at least a police station. I wouldn't call the 911 boys cowards, but the Boston bomber was a coward.


Honibaz


I might agree with you on that, but it takes some nerves to build a few bombs, drop them off undetected, and blow up some people. I'll admit that they were definitely stupid though, but it depends on their goals.
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Re:

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:46 pm

2dimes wrote:Has anyone read the reports on motive. Yahoo had a headline about the young guy talking. Their headlines are great and their "news" articles are horrendious. I couldn't bring myself to click the link.


The motive is radical Islam, and their general hatred of the West. It also appears they were more motivated to do this because they were pot smoking losers.

I guess that one right in saxi's thread btw (continuation of the streak of drugged up losers)
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:08 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:I suppose that it could be a question of degrees and fine points. If Hitler was on a bus full of children would i blow up the bus? Because of my own experience in the military i doubt that i would be able to, but i could understand someone doing such a thing to save countless other lives. Bombing a city full of people to destroy a bioweapons plant, same thing. However, blowing up a crowd of civilians at an event that has no bearing whatsover on anything military is cowardice in its lowest form. Cockroaches i'd say.


Honibaz


Well, it does have a significant bearing on the US military. How does one get the US to spend $1-3 trillion on wars in Iraq and AFG and an international war across the Middle East and North Africa? Fly two planes into two tall US buildings; for icing, target the Pentagon and Camp David.

Terrorism can be extremely cost-effective and isn't at all cowardice. It takes a lot to kill yourself or to wage a war against the Strongest Country in the World.


The 'underwear' bomber didn't kill anyone, and had insurance companies and airliners face billions in underestimated costs due to risk.

All of these terrorist incidents in the US reaffirm the public's desire to endure a marginal loss in civil liberties for more perceived security (the latest poll shows that the desire is declining, but I'd expect the "National Security State" to ignore that while it wages its wars). Terrorism can get the government's counter-terrorism to become counter-productive.

Ha, World's Mightiest Cockroaches, but if anyone's a cockroach, it would be those who subsidize oppressive regimes, something which many terrorists dislike and are responding to.


We should never forget that osama bin laden said that attacking our economy was just as important as attacking our military and civilians. In that regard their strategy is a stunning success. It's even worse than that too, because all the borrowing by our gov't and all the added regulations of obamacare and other regulations in general act like a 1-2 combo to our economy, and it looks like the combo landed right on the chin.
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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