We're going to Mars

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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:31 pm

Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby MegaProphet on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:15 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.

-TG

Buzz Aldrin wrote a book about why Mars and not the moon and I think it boiled down to the fact that it'll be easier to establish a base on Mars than on the moon
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:25 pm

MegaProphet wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.

-TG

Buzz Aldrin wrote a book about why Mars and not the moon and I think it boiled down to the fact that it'll be easier to establish a base on Mars than on the moon


Hm I'll have to check that out. It seems to me the energy expenditure would be far greater and with much less pay off. If we were to colonize the moon, we could more easily transport materials from drilling and mining operations back as it's a fall to earth (only energy being liftoff from the moon surface). The Moon is rich in iron iirc and has water-ice.

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby crispybits on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 pm

Once you get there though I'd imagine (without actually doing any research) that Mars offers greater potential for further expansion. Things like wider varieties of mineral deposits, etc, and there is water ice on Mars too. The more "normal" (compared to Earth) gravity may well be a positive factor too in that current equipment designs wouldn't need any modification, whereas lunar equipment may need to be adapted significantly due to the lower gravity. That's just off the top of my head though, and basically I do kinda agree that the moon should be step 1 and then look to move outwards from there.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:09 pm

My money would be on a space elevator being step 1.

Since it would reduce the cost of taking stuff up to space something like 1000X it would not only make the Moon/Mars colonization much more feasible, but would also completely open up the space tourism market.

Keeping in mind that there are currently people paying millions to go for a little while in orbit, I think a couple more advances in the technology will make the building of a space elevator quite economically feasible. Put a hotel at the top and you're set.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby NoSurvivors on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:09 pm

TeeGee wrote:Just saw this on TV here.... wonder what speed internet they will have...


LOL Damn right, I wonder what my flag would be if I played CC from mars..
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Lootifer on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:11 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:My money would be on a space elevator being step 1.

Since it would reduce the cost of taking stuff up to space something like 1000X it would not only make the Moon/Mars colonization much more feasible, but would also completely open up the space tourism market.

Keeping in mind that there are currently people paying millions to go for a little while in orbit, I think a couple more advances in the technology will make the building of a space elevator quite economically feasible. Put a hotel at the top and you're set.


Your mums a geostationary orbiting platform tethered to the earth.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Woodruff on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:19 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.


Here's my somewhat uneducated (but I'm a space-geek!) view of things:

We SHOULD establish a base on the Moon first, but ONLY for production. The Moon has vast resources that we could use as aid to manufacturing/launching capabilities, and since the Moon's gravity is significantly less than that of the Earth, we gain a tremendous amount in that regard as well.

So yes to a base on the Moon, but no to colonization on the Moon. Send that to Mars. Why Mars? Because it's fucking Mars, and I wanna be John Carter, dammit! (My absolute favorite series as a kid) Seriously, though...the gravity on Mars is much closer to the Earth, so you mitigate a lot of the health problems that will arise on the moon (kidney stones, osteoporosis, etc...).
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Woodruff on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:21 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:My money would be on a space elevator being step 1.

Since it would reduce the cost of taking stuff up to space something like 1000X it would not only make the Moon/Mars colonization much more feasible, but would also completely open up the space tourism market.

Keeping in mind that there are currently people paying millions to go for a little while in orbit, I think a couple more advances in the technology will make the building of a space elevator quite economically feasible. Put a hotel at the top and you're set.


A space elevator to the Moon is, in my opinion, not worth the expense. Yes, it would definitely reduce what we need to take up by a massive amount, yet we can manufacture on the Moon (of course, we have to transport that initial equipment there). So I think the expense of the elevator doesn't pay off even with that massive initial savings.

Now, the idea of space tourism...I think that will be a reality in the not-too-distant future (it's already sort of started for the ultra-rich).
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Re:

Postby tzor on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:33 pm

2dimes wrote:The fact that it has not returned to the moon probably is due to a reason.


Yes there was never a reason to do so. We only went to the Moon for two reasons; to really prove ICBM technology and to keep the Soviets from getting there first and doing nuclear testing on the dark side of the moon. Real space exploration was never an issue. Real space exploration wanted to build an orbiting station first and go from there.

Besides there was only one person in the entire history of US space flight; George M Lowe. Before him we had the disaster that was Apollo 1, After he left to become President of R.P.I. NASA slowly went to hell in a hand basket. We settled on near orbit stations that could be supplied by a shuttle that could only get to near earth orbit.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby tzor on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:My money would be on a space elevator being step 1.


My money is not on that. The implications would be massive and significant. We are talking about a major increase in tech levels that would probably filter down to all sorts of things (you are talking about industrial grade carbon nanotube or boron nitride nanotube technology). Yes we can spin a carbon nanotube into the thickness of a human hair but we have to go orders of magnitude thicker to get the elevator cable.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:09 pm

What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?

edit: checked wiki, seems... weird.

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:12 pm

Woodruff wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Why Mars and not the more realistic Moon? It seems to me that in tackling the Moon we'd learn more about colonization and such that could be used for something like Mars later.


Here's my somewhat uneducated (but I'm a space-geek!) view of things:

We SHOULD establish a base on the Moon first, but ONLY for production. The Moon has vast resources that we could use as aid to manufacturing/launching capabilities, and since the Moon's gravity is significantly less than that of the Earth, we gain a tremendous amount in that regard as well.

So yes to a base on the Moon, but no to colonization on the Moon. Send that to Mars. Why Mars? Because it's fucking Mars, and I wanna be John Carter, dammit! (My absolute favorite series as a kid) Seriously, though...the gravity on Mars is much closer to the Earth, so you mitigate a lot of the health problems that will arise on the moon (kidney stones, osteoporosis, etc...).


Not only resources but you could have better radio relays on the Moon that wouldn't be subject to atmospheric noise of Earth.

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:13 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I'm concerned about the type of people that would be willing to take a one-way trip to Mars.

"Hey, smart scientist guy. Want to go to Mars?"
"Can I come back?"
"Nope"
"f*ck no!"

"Hey, crazy loner guy. Want to go to Mars?"
"Can I say there forever?"
"Yes."
"f*ck yes!"

John Galt will go.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Lootifer on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:31 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?

edit: checked wiki, seems... weird.

-TG

Me too, though I think it sounds FUCKING AWESOME!
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:13 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:http://applicants.mars-one.com/

Apply within.


Unfortunately, it will never take off. I am sadly completely convinced that this is either a scam (as they take in funding) or a very misguided plan (as their timeline and such is not very sound).

That being said, my wife and I have applied.


Hope you win, Woody! I'll see you off! ;)
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:27 pm

Three necessary reads to make this trip:

Image

...

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...

Image
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:21 pm

What about something like Heinlein's catapult from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby Lootifer on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:21 pm

Old Mans War is amazaballs (and really easy to read/light sci-fi - unlike PK Dick, good luck with that haha)

(I do love PK Dick though).
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:22 pm

Why would anyone want to go to Mars?

I'd let the first 1000 people try, see how many survive, and then maybe go.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby tzor on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:33 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?


Image

Note that if you really want to go overboard you locate the -1 G point on the elevator and start building sideways. With a few elevators in place you could easily build a habitation ring around the earth with the earth always being directly above you in the habitation ring. It would be interesting to see where that point would like in relation to the magnetic lines of the earth.
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:51 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:What about something like Heinlein's catapult from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?


Yeah I thought that was a pretty cool idea. Don't know of its actual feasibility, but it sounded plausible to me.

For those who don't know, one of the characters in the book proposes building long catapults on a tall mountain range where stuff is launched horizontally at escape velocity (think like shooting it from a rifle), since you don't actually have to shoot things straight up. Something at escape velocity in any direction will escape provided nothing is in the way. I don't remember the propulsive methods in the book. After that it's just a matter of timing the launches such that they intercept the moon orbital path.

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:54 am

tzor wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What is a space elevator exactly? Is it any different than building constructs at the Lagrangian points?


Image

Note that if you really want to go overboard you locate the -1 G point on the elevator and start building sideways. With a few elevators in place you could easily build a habitation ring around the earth with the earth always being directly above you in the habitation ring. It would be interesting to see where that point would like in relation to the magnetic lines of the earth.


Somehow that picture doesn't look right. How far out is the counterweight that its CoM is so far away from the Earth? The Moon-Earth CoM is something like 1000 miles below Earth's surface (and I assume that we can't build anything rivaling the Moon's mass).

-TG
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Re: We're going to Mars

Postby john9blue on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:02 am

not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but i recall hearing that the candidates will be chosen by an online vote.

if this is true then the project will almost definitely fail.

sometimes *gasp* democracy is NOT the answer!
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:27 am

tzor wrote:
2dimes wrote:The fact that it has not returned to the moon probably is due to a reason.


Yes there was never a reason to do so. We only went to the Moon for two reasons; to really prove ICBM technology and to keep the Soviets from getting there first and doing nuclear testing on the dark side of the moon. Real space exploration was never an issue. Real space exploration wanted to build an orbiting station first and go from there.

Besides there was only one person in the entire history of US space flight; George M Lowe. Before him we had the disaster that was Apollo 1, After he left to become President of R.P.I. NASA slowly went to hell in a hand basket. We settled on near orbit stations that could be supplied by a shuttle that could only get to near earth orbit.

Or it's too expensive.
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