most corrupt administration in the history of the US

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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby thegreekdog on Wed May 15, 2013 7:30 pm

Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


You're actually comparing Iran during the hostage crisis with countries that are certainly considered allies of ours at the moment (even if I personally feel they should not be)? And you think that's a valid comparison?


Yes and yes. Do you know the stated reasons for the sale of weapons to Iran? I purposefully didn't include the support of "Arab Spring" rebels, but it's kind of the same thing, no? The United States engages in foreign policy by selling weapons. That's how we roll. We sell those weapons to allies and we sell those weapons to rebels in the hopes that they will support us, whether the allies or rebels are scumbags currently or may be enemies in the future. To make it a partisan issue is, well, partisan. And it's also kind of stupid since you end up ignoring the problem (selling weapons to dysfunctional countries or selling weapons at all) and concentrating on "well, if my guy does it, it must be okay."
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby ooge on Wed May 15, 2013 7:32 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 15, 2013 7:33 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


You're actually comparing Iran during the hostage crisis with countries that are certainly considered allies of ours at the moment (even if I personally feel they should not be)? And you think that's a valid comparison?


Yes and yes. Do you know the stated reasons for the sale of weapons to Iran? I purposefully didn't include the support of "Arab Spring" rebels, but it's kind of the same thing, no? The United States engages in foreign policy by selling weapons. That's how we roll. We sell those weapons to allies and we sell those weapons to rebels in the hopes that they will support us, whether the allies or rebels are scumbags currently or may be enemies in the future. To make it a partisan issue is, well, partisan. And it's also kind of stupid since you end up ignoring the problem (selling weapons to dysfunctional countries or selling weapons at all) and concentrating on "well, if my guy does it, it must be okay."


The "Arab Spring uprisings" would at least be a somewhat more valid example. But in the cases you've cited, you're comparing an openly hostile regime with nations that are our allies. That is not a valid comparison.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby thegreekdog on Wed May 15, 2013 7:37 pm

ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


Woodruff wrote:The "Arab Spring uprisings" would at least be a somewhat more valid example. But in the cases you've cited, you're comparing an openly hostile regime with nations that are our allies. That is not a valid comparison.


Do you and Woodruff know anything about Iran-Contra? I would love to read your summaries of that scandal.

More for ooge than Woodruff, but I'm also wondering whether he thinks President Obama is behind the IRS investigations of Tea Party organizations.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby ooge on Wed May 15, 2013 7:47 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


Woodruff wrote:The "Arab Spring uprisings" would at least be a somewhat more valid example. But in the cases you've cited, you're comparing an openly hostile regime with nations that are our allies. That is not a valid comparison.


Do you and Woodruff know anything about Iran-Contra? I would love to read your summaries of that scandal.

More for ooge than Woodruff, but I'm also wondering whether he thinks President Obama is behind the IRS investigations of Tea Party organizations.


of course I know what the Iran/contra scandal was and by letting that administration get away with it,they just embolden presidents that followed him to also break the law.but not all law breaking is the same, Iran/contra was treason,treason is punishable by death. IRS investigating fake 501c tax exempt org. that goal is to elect republicans and are anti tax.Who do you think the IRS should investigate? anyways this occurred under a Bush appointed IRS chief.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 15, 2013 8:00 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


Woodruff wrote:The "Arab Spring uprisings" would at least be a somewhat more valid example. But in the cases you've cited, you're comparing an openly hostile regime with nations that are our allies. That is not a valid comparison.


Do you and Woodruff know anything about Iran-Contra? I would love to read your summaries of that scandal.


I was a classified military network system administrator during Iran-Contra. I know a lot about it. Essentially, there was an arms embargo against Iran, and our government arranged to get arms to them in an effort to secure the release of our hostages and in the hope of sending the money to those fighting Communism in Nicaragua.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 8:22 pm

Obama, concerning all 3 scandals... If he didn't know about them, then that's even worse than if he did know and personally ordered them, because it shows he doesn't know how to lead, and that has a negative impact on every aspect of our government, not just these 3 scandals.

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I've long said, just wait until after the election, then we will finally see the REAL Obama. Well, here he is! Look at him go for the guns! Just like Romney would!
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 15, 2013 8:24 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Image


Is that your class photo?
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby ooge on Wed May 15, 2013 8:25 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Image


Is that your class photo?


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed May 15, 2013 8:52 pm

ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Speaking of fantastic visions of presidents, what's your opinion on Obama's activities:

Tens of millions of dollars of U.S. military financing will continue to flow to Yemen and three other countries that recruit and use child soldiers, despite a 2008 U.S. law designed to restrict U.S. taxpayer funding of foreign militaries that enlist children to fight in war.

The White House issued a memorandum Tuesday evening to allow military funding to Yemen, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Chad, three of the six countries on the State Department's list of foreign governments that recruit and use child soldiers in state-backed armed forces and militias.

Human rights advocates say the presidential waivers, issued for a second year in a row, undermine the intentions of Congress.


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=186346&hilit=child+soldiers#p4073254
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed May 15, 2013 8:53 pm

ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


So selling weapons to despotic regimes as bad as Saddam Hussein's is totally fine with you?

If not, how do such sales affect the images of those presidents? (Certainly can't be a positive image--as much as people try to reinvent their favored presidents, e.g. Obama).
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed May 15, 2013 9:03 pm

Woodruff wrote:What gets me is this...there are plenty of things that Obama has done that are seriously bad, even to the point that I would consider to be impeachment-worthy. But Benghazi isn't one of them. It just isn't.


I'd agree that Benghazi is not impeachment worthy though I think the administration definitely screwed the pooch on it. Would you agree? And it's crazy there isn't more publicity about the fact that not only did some corruption occur but that for one of the first times in the history of America, we didn't go in to save our own whether it was a long shot at success or not. We don't leave Americans behind, ever. Let alone an ambassador which is equivalent to a 4 star general in diplomatic rank (could be wrong on that comment, don't quote me).

If they had came out right away and said "we underestimated intelligence reports and four good Americans died, which we deeply, deeply regret". It would have sucked but the way this was handled was bad on many levels. I would have given credit for honesty though I would have probably criticized them for underestimating those reports. If it wasn't within months of the election, I wonder how it would have been handled.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby thegreekdog on Wed May 15, 2013 9:47 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


So selling weapons to despotic regimes as bad as Saddam Hussein's is totally fine with you?

If not, how do such sales affect the images of those presidents? (Certainly can't be a positive image--as much as people try to reinvent their favored presidents, e.g. Obama).


You know how you don't really argue with Phatscotty because he's so ridiculously over-the-top partisan? Oooge fits that description as well.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby thegreekdog on Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Woodruff wrote:I was a classified military network system administrator during Iran-Contra. I know a lot about it. Essentially, there was an arms embargo against Iran, and our government arranged to get arms to them in an effort to secure the release of our hostages and in the hope of sending the money to those fighting Communism in Nicaragua.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying there was a reason for it, just like there are reasons why we are supporting the Arab Spring uprisings or selling weapons to countries whose leaders routinely violate human rights and/or will eventually be fighting us. It's not like the Reagan administration said "let's sell some weapons to Iran and see what happens" (although, that was kind of what it was).

In any event, my comparisons are valid.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
You know how you don't really argue with Phatscotty because he's so ridiculously over-the-top partisan? Oooge fits that description as well.



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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:04 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


So selling weapons to despotic regimes as bad as Saddam Hussein's is totally fine with you?

If not, how do such sales affect the images of those presidents? (Certainly can't be a positive image--as much as people try to reinvent their favored presidents, e.g. Obama).


You know how you don't really argue with Phatscotty because he's so ridiculously over-the-top partisan? Oooge fits that description as well.


:lol: You just can't help yourself, can you? It's not my fault what you think is wrong.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Phatscotty on Wed May 15, 2013 10:05 pm

Obama Approval Rating - How low will he go?

Wednesday, May 15, 2013

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 49% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Forty-nine percent (49%) now disapprove.

Today’s figures include 26% who Strongly Approve of the way Obama is performing as president and 39% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -13
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 16, 2013 9:18 am

Phatscotty wrote: :lol: You just can't help yourself, can you? It's not my fault what you think is wrong.


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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby thegreekdog on Thu May 16, 2013 10:28 am

Phatscotty wrote:You just can't help yourself, can you? It's not my fault what you think is wrong.


I was making a point to Woodruff that he thinks you're partisan. Really has nothing to do with you (sorry).

Not that it matters, but I think you are partisan, not consistent in your arguments, and unknowledgeable about the subjects you argue. I agree with you on more than a few things, but your argument style is atrocious. You need to go to debate school or something.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby muy_thaiguy on Thu May 16, 2013 11:12 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You just can't help yourself, can you? It's not my fault what you think is wrong.


I was making a point to Woodruff that he thinks you're partisan. Really has nothing to do with you (sorry).

Not that it matters, but I think you are partisan, not consistent in your arguments, and unknowledgeable about the subjects you argue. I agree with you on more than a few things, but your argument style is atrocious. You need to go to debate school or something.

CC IS debate school. And like any school, it has its honor roll students, average students, and punk ass bitch students that think they know what they're doing/saying but tend to fail or come off as punk-ass bitches.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:17 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:What gets me is this...there are plenty of things that Obama has done that are seriously bad, even to the point that I would consider to be impeachment-worthy. But Benghazi isn't one of them. It just isn't.


I'd agree that Benghazi is not impeachment worthy though I think the administration definitely screwed the pooch on it. Would you agree?


I would agree that it definitely appears that way, yes.

patrickaa317 wrote:And it's crazy there isn't more publicity about the fact that not only did some corruption occur


I'm not convinced of the corruption angle, to be honest.

patrickaa317 wrote:If they had came out right away and said "we underestimated intelligence reports and four good Americans died, which we deeply, deeply regret". It would have sucked but the way this was handled was bad on many levels. I would have given credit for honesty though I would have probably criticized them for underestimating those reports.


I agree completely.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:18 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
ooge wrote:instead of voter ID law how about a test to see if you understand simple U.S. history. it seems to me there was an administration that sold weapons to a country that was a sworn enemy of the US.supplying the enemy with weapons is treason.Why republicans look at Ronald Reagan the same way a child looks at Superman I will never know.


Which administration are you talking about? Reagan? Bush I? Clinton? Bush II? Obama?

Cause I'm pretty sure all of those administrations have done it.


Reagan obviously,if you have proof of others supply it.


Done (but only Presidents Clinton and Obama):

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/actmay95.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ia-and-uae
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... gn-policy/

To be fair, right now Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates aren't enemies of the United States.


Bud,you just wasted my time there,I was looking for sworn enemies of the US in these articles I did not find any.


So selling weapons to despotic regimes as bad as Saddam Hussein's is totally fine with you?


At the time, was Saddam someone who was working for our interests? I'm pretty sure he was.

Don't get me wrong...I have long held that we supply our own eventual enemies, so I'm certainly not trying to justify that. But selling to an actual current enemy is a far different thing in my view.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:20 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I was a classified military network system administrator during Iran-Contra. I know a lot about it. Essentially, there was an arms embargo against Iran, and our government arranged to get arms to them in an effort to secure the release of our hostages and in the hope of sending the money to those fighting Communism in Nicaragua.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying there was a reason for it, just like there are reasons why we are supporting the Arab Spring uprisings or selling weapons to countries whose leaders routinely violate human rights and/or will eventually be fighting us. It's not like the Reagan administration said "let's sell some weapons to Iran and see what happens" (although, that was kind of what it was).


Of course he wasn't, and I'm not saying that there wasn't some political reason for it. However...

thegreekdog wrote:In any event, my comparisons are valid.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, given the status of the nations those weapons are being sold to. I don't even understand why you think it's a valid comparison.
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby Woodruff on Thu May 16, 2013 11:22 am

Phatscotty wrote:Obama Approval Rating - How low will he go?

Wednesday, May 15, 2013

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 49% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Forty-nine percent (49%) now disapprove.

Today’s figures include 26% who Strongly Approve of the way Obama is performing as president and 39% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -13


Not that it's any great victory, but that's a hell of a lot stronger than Congress'...
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Re: most corrupt administration in the history of the US

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu May 16, 2013 1:22 pm

Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
So selling weapons to despotic regimes as bad as Saddam Hussein's is totally fine with you?


At the time, was Saddam someone who was working for our interests? I'm pretty sure he was.

Don't get me wrong...I have long held that we supply our own eventual enemies, so I'm certainly not trying to justify that. But selling to an actual current enemy is a far different thing in my view.


Sure, it's different, but I'm trying to see where ooge's moral compass lay because it seems a bit inconsistent whenever the word "Democrat" becomes involved.

Even if it's different, I don't praise subsidizing corrupt, oppressive regimes--nor do I find it useful enough. And with blowback or their becoming enemies of the US, it was a complete waste. Encouraging despotism and creating waste v. subsidizing a current enemy.... hmm, it's not an important distinction if the outcomes are both poor.
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