He's called a "traitor"

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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby rishaed on Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:56 pm

Its a well written article there.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:25 am

Woodruff wrote:For those that actually care:

http://www.alternet.org/glenn-greenwald


I'm not sure how much of it is true, but I do like how they provided links to some of their claims (better than mainstream media), and it was successfully in making me annoyed at the government. :P
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:59 am

It makes me wonder...why hasn't Clapper been sanctioned for his perjury?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby patches70 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:18 am

Woodruff wrote:It makes me wonder...why hasn't Clapper been sanctioned for his perjury?


He didn't lie, he just made an error. He's a loyal public servant. Heh heh.

James Clapper wrote:My response was clearly erroneous — for which I apologize,”........ “mistakes will happen, and when I make one, I correct it"
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:21 am

patches70 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:It makes me wonder...why hasn't Clapper been sanctioned for his perjury?


He didn't lie, he just made an error.


That sounds suspiciously like something Spock said in Star Trek VI (I think).

James Clapper wrote:My response was clearly erroneous — for which I apologize,”........ “mistakes will happen, and when I make one, I correct it"


Yeah...of course, the follow-up to that is that if he could have possibly made that error when he's in the position that he is in, he should be fired.

Also, do they allow that explanation of us "regular folks"?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby patches70 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:41 am

Woodruff wrote:Also, do they allow that explanation of us "regular folks"?


Of course not! After all, the pigs need the greater share of the apples because of all that hard work they do on behalf of the regular people. Where would we be without the pigs to think for us?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:05 pm

Ars has reported that Snowden had huge problems with leakers when George Bush was President. Hm...

< TheTrueHOOHA> HOLY SHIT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washi ... ml?_r=1&hp
< TheTrueHOOHA> WTF NYTIMES
< TheTrueHOOHA> Are they TRYING to start a war?
Jesus christ
they're like wikileaks
< User19> they're just reporting, dude.
< TheTrueHOOHA> They're reporting classified shit
< User19> shrugs
< TheTrueHOOHA> about an unpopular country surrounded by enemies already engaged in a war
and about our interactions with said country regarding planning sovereignity violations of another country
you don't put that shit in the NEWSPAPER
< User19> meh
< TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the f*ck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
< TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.

...

< TheTrueHOOHA> I enjoy it when it's ethical reporting.
< TheTrueHOOHA> political corruption, sure
< TheTrueHOOHA> scandal, yes
< User19> is it unethical to report on the government's intrigue?
< TheTrueHOOHA> VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no


(TheTrueHOOHA = Snowden)
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Re: or "heroic whistle blower!"

Postby oVo on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:09 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Wait. Y'all wear white hats? What kind of night-time meetings do y'all attend??

Don't be confusing "hats" for "hoods" although both groups may have had the best of intentions, it might be beyond suggestion to note that they have common ground. Both feel confident their might makes right and any covert means they employ to achieve their objective --regardless of how misguided or unscrupulous-- is above reproach or accountability.

Reagan & Bush defying Congress with Iran/Contra --cocaine, cash & weapons-- was probably just the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks for the Greenwald Link Woodruff, I'm checking it out now.

Maybe the democratic advances in Arab countries will lead to some Spring Cleaning of our own right here in America.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:46 am

All letters sent via U.S. Mail are photographed and logged by the regime -

Mr. Pickering was targeted by a longtime surveillance system called mail covers, a forerunner of a vastly more expansive effort, the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States — about 160 billion pieces last year. It is not known how long the government saves the images.

“In the past, mail covers were used when you had a reason to suspect someone of a crime,” said Mark D. Rasch, who started a computer crimes unit in the fraud section of the criminal division of the Justice Department and worked on several fraud cases using mail covers. “Now it seems to be, ‘Let’s record everyone’s mail so in the future we might go back and see who you were communicating with.’ Essentially you’ve added mail covers on millions of Americans.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/mo ... share&_r=0
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:05 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Ars has reported that Snowden had huge problems with leakers when George Bush was President. Hm...


That is definitely interesting. Then again, in the time between then and now, I can see how something may have happened to change his view of things. I mean, there was a time (it's been quite a while, but still) when I was a pretty serious cheerleader for our government, for instance...and over time, my perspective legitimately changed on that.

As well, it's also entirely possible that he simply suspected that, as an NSA employee, he was probably being watched. It's certainly not beyond the realm of likelihood even.

But I agree that it is interesting.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:16 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Ars has reported that Snowden had huge problems with leakers when George Bush was President. Hm...

< TheTrueHOOHA> HOLY SHIT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washi ... ml?_r=1&hp
< TheTrueHOOHA> WTF NYTIMES
< TheTrueHOOHA> Are they TRYING to start a war?
Jesus christ
they're like wikileaks
< User19> they're just reporting, dude.
< TheTrueHOOHA> They're reporting classified shit
< User19> shrugs
< TheTrueHOOHA> about an unpopular country surrounded by enemies already engaged in a war
and about our interactions with said country regarding planning sovereignity violations of another country
you don't put that shit in the NEWSPAPER
< User19> meh
< TheTrueHOOHA> moreover, who the f*ck are the anonymous sources telling them this?
< TheTrueHOOHA> those people should be shot in the balls.

...

< TheTrueHOOHA> I enjoy it when it's ethical reporting.
< TheTrueHOOHA> political corruption, sure
< TheTrueHOOHA> scandal, yes
< User19> is it unethical to report on the government's intrigue?
< TheTrueHOOHA> VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no


(TheTrueHOOHA = Snowden)


Not sure if legit, but if it is:

ermehgerd, Snowden, TheTrueHOOHA, was putting up a front?! Who would've saw that coming????
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Re: He's a "whistle blower"

Postby oVo on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 pm

When it comes to news it's hard to know who to believe, particularly politics. There seems to be a corporate agenda behind most editorial opinions and many of the toughest issues to "commoners" aren't discussed in depth or objectively at all. The internet has exposed many "facts" while at the same time unearthing absurd amounts of misinformed "truths" and it's totally weird that governments --including the USA-- spend millions of dollars to disperse info and impact opinions on the web.

Who can you trust? Over the years it's been revealed that government entities have infiltrated nearly all subversive groups in America and initiated actions to make them look bad. In some instances even encouraging civil unrest that has allowed heavy handed responses by local authorities. When there's a riot associated with a once peaceful demonstration connected to political conventions/anti-war rallies/occupy I have to wonder who is actually behind the violence.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:58 pm

Snowden denies he provided or lost any information to the Chinese or Russians:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Woodruff wrote:Snowden denies he provided or lost any information to the Chinese or Russians:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china

Interesting article. Especially this passage:
The extraordinary claim that China had drained the contents of Snowden's laptops first appeared in the New York Times in a June 24 article. The paper published the claim with no evidence and without any attribution to any identified sources.

In lieu of any evidence, the NYT circulated this obviously significant assertion by quoting what it called "two Western intelligence experts" who "worked for major government spy agencies". Those "experts" were not identified. The article then stated that these experts "said they believed that the Chinese government had managed to drain the contents of the four laptops that Mr. Snowden said he brought to Hong Kong" (emphasis added).

So that's how this "China-drained-his-laptops" claim was created: by the New York Times citing two anonymous sources saying they "believed" this happened. From there, it predictably spread everywhere as truth.

Once again, America's "independent media" is sucking up the government's line like a pack of starving hounds at a puddle of blood. The same "independent media" that swallowed the Warren Commission report hook, line, and sinker. The same "independent media" that parroted all the BS stories about Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction" and are now desperately pretending that it wasn't them.
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