Religion is a Mental Illness

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Discussions Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby Army of GOD on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:23 pm

Actually, religion is an opiate.

lrn2marx
CURRENCY CONVERSION: 1 SaxBucks = .02 AoGRubles

To redeem AoGRubles, write on AoG's wall with order.
Menu:
-1 nietzsche dickpic: 1 AoGRuble
-1 AoG dickpic: 100 AoGRubles
-1 "AoG is awesome!" t-shirt: 500 AoGRubles
User avatar
Cook Army of GOD
 
Posts: 5122
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Over the river and through the woods
Medals: 26
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby NoSurvivors on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:24 pm

Woodruff wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:85% of the world, not to mention 85.8% of your beloved America, believe in a god of some sort. Don't you think calling 85% of the world "crazy fucks" is a stupid idea?


Perhaps 85% of the world, but definitely not 85% of America, is religious.


Sorry, I forgot. Arrogant Americans like you only give a damn about themselves. :roll:.
User avatar
Major NoSurvivors
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 10:25 am
Medals: 79
Monthly Leader Silver (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (3) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (5)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:59 pm

john9blue wrote:woody, i'm not going to respond to your bullshit anymore. you're sidetracking the discussion into stupid irrelevant shit like symmetry does. come back once you have something meaningful to say.


I've done nothing of the sort here. I've simply called you out on your bullshit and you don't like it. Stop running, John. I guess you're just following in the footsteps of the dodge-master, Phatscotty...you've learned well.

john9blue wrote:haven't we had this discussion? on a theoretical level it doesn't make sense for the removal of religious values to be good for society, and on a practical level we have no evidence yet of a successful atheist society.


Religious values? You mean values like the oppression of women, pedophilia, homophobia...those sorts of values? I'd say society would be better off without the promotion of them that religion CURRENTLY does, yes.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:01 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:85% of the world, not to mention 85.8% of your beloved America, believe in a god of some sort. Don't you think calling 85% of the world "crazy fucks" is a stupid idea?


Perhaps 85% of the world, but definitely not 85% of America, is religious.


Sorry, I forgot. Arrogant Americans like you only give a damn about themselves. :roll:.


Huh? Where did that come from? I simply pointed out that your statement regarding the percentage of religious people in America wasn't even close to accurate. And that's worthy of that response from you?

Roll your eyes at yourself, where it's deserved.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:10 pm

Woodruff wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:85% of the world, not to mention 85.8% of your beloved America, believe in a god of some sort. Don't you think calling 85% of the world "crazy fucks" is a stupid idea?


Perhaps 85% of the world, but definitely not 85% of America, is religious.


Sorry, I forgot. Arrogant Americans like you only give a damn about themselves. :roll:.


Huh? Where did that come from? I simply pointed out that your statement regarding the percentage of religious people in America wasn't even close to accurate. And that's worthy of that response from you?

Roll your eyes at yourself, where it's deserved.


I'd also like some idea of what NoS's comment has to do with Woody's. It looks like a complete non-sequitur to me. Come to that, what do the rolling eyes mean in this context? I'm baffled. Please, NoS , explain what you meant.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Sergeant jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby waauw on Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:42 pm

john9blue wrote:haven't we had this discussion? on a theoretical level it doesn't make sense for the removal of religious values to be good for society, and on a practical level we have no evidence yet of a successful atheist society.


I'm curious. What do you define as criteria for a succesful atheist society?
Also I haven't read your debate so this might sound stupid, but removing or adding religious values is a stupid notion as a whole. Not because religion is important or unimportant, but because many of the values held by many religious people are the same of people who aren't religious. There is no monopoly on any values there(except admiring a deity).
Image

George Santayana: Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
User avatar
Cook waauw
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:46 pm
Location: Physically in Belgium, mentally lost in his fantasy world
Medals: 50
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4) Tournament Contribution (10)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby john9blue on Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:38 pm

waauw wrote:I'm curious. What do you define as criteria for a succesful atheist society?
Also I haven't read your debate so this might sound stupid, but removing or adding religious values is a stupid notion as a whole. Not because religion is important or unimportant, but because many of the values held by many religious people are the same of people who aren't religious. There is no monopoly on any values there(except admiring a deity).


a widespread society without significant religious influence in their culture. has that ever happened?

and the reason both types of people hold similar values is because most people get almost all of their values from their culture/environment. most nonreligious people (despite pretending to be "freethinkers" or whatever other nonsense) indirectly get some of their values from religion, since religion is probably very influential within their culture, and they get most of their values from their culture like everyone else.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby tzor on Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:43 pm

john9blue wrote:a widespread society without significant religious influence in their culture. has that ever happened?


It all depends on how you define "religious influence." If you mean religious dogma, then yes, there have been a few. If you mean philosophical influences of a predominant religion, then the answer is probably not.

But i would hardly qualify either as "atheist."
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby crispybits on Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:55 pm

john9blue wrote:
waauw wrote:I'm curious. What do you define as criteria for a succesful atheist society?
Also I haven't read your debate so this might sound stupid, but removing or adding religious values is a stupid notion as a whole. Not because religion is important or unimportant, but because many of the values held by many religious people are the same of people who aren't religious. There is no monopoly on any values there(except admiring a deity).


a widespread society without significant religious influence in their culture. has that ever happened?

and the reason both types of people hold similar values is because most people get almost all of their values from their culture/environment. most nonreligious people (despite pretending to be "freethinkers" or whatever other nonsense) indirectly get some of their values from religion, since religion is probably very influential within their culture, and they get most of their values from their culture like everyone else.


You are discounting or forgeting that there are several other ways to influence culture and imbue values. For sure "thou shalt not kill" is a biblical commandment, but we can learn that it is bad to kill someone else through non-religious means also.

Can you name any values that are exclusively religious and which cannot be transmitted or taught through secular means that, if missing, would lead to a lack of moral values?
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (7)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby john9blue on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:10 pm

crispybits wrote:You are discounting or forgeting that there are several other ways to influence culture and imbue values. For sure "thou shalt not kill" is a biblical commandment, but we can learn that it is bad to kill someone else through non-religious means also.


i never said religion was the only way to acquire moral values. but it is a popular and effective way.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby chang50 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:03 am

chang50 wrote: So I am either a liar or deluded?
Your personal beliefs go right to the heart of the matter when you accuse me of being a hypocrite after I have stated my position openly and honestly but you hide yours so I cannot assess it likewise.This is called intellectual honesty and is fundamental to FAIR and EQUAL debate,which you appear reluctant to engage in.A level playing field,is very little to ask for.


-_- all right. consider me an agnostic then. i like the idea of christianity, but i'm not knowledgeable enough to defend a lot of christian beliefs, so i tend to leave christian apologetics to those who are good at it.[/quote]


That didn't hurt did it?
Now we are on an equal footing can you explain why you believe I'm not an agnostic atheist?Like you I can see some good in the idea of Christianity.But I can also see much bad,the idea of redemption appalls me for example,but I am not an antitheist,or even a gnostic atheist.Since you take issue with how I describe my position I can equally see a problem with someone claiming a tendencey to leave Christian apologetics to others then fairly regularly indulging in them.Some might say reading your posts you appear to be a Christian with serious reservations.Would that be fair?
User avatar
Captain chang50
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:54 am
Location: pattaya,thailand
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:10 am

john9blue wrote:
waauw wrote:I'm curious. What do you define as criteria for a succesful atheist society?
Also I haven't read your debate so this might sound stupid, but removing or adding religious values is a stupid notion as a whole. Not because religion is important or unimportant, but because many of the values held by many religious people are the same of people who aren't religious. There is no monopoly on any values there(except admiring a deity).


a widespread society without significant religious influence in their culture. has that ever happened?

and the reason both types of people hold similar values is because most people get almost all of their values from their culture/environment. most nonreligious people (despite pretending to be "freethinkers" or whatever other nonsense) indirectly get some of their values from religion, since religion is probably very influential within their culture, and they get most of their values from their culture like everyone else.


Depends on what you mean by significant, but give it time, and many of the Northern and Eastern European countries will bear fewer and fewer religious influence over the generations. They're the forerunners of what I expect most "developed" countries to demographically appear (increasing atheism/humanitarianism without the religion).
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby chang50 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:24 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
john9blue wrote:
waauw wrote:I'm curious. What do you define as criteria for a succesful atheist society?
Also I haven't read your debate so this might sound stupid, but removing or adding religious values is a stupid notion as a whole. Not because religion is important or unimportant, but because many of the values held by many religious people are the same of people who aren't religious. There is no monopoly on any values there(except admiring a deity).


a widespread society without significant religious influence in their culture. has that ever happened?

and the reason both types of people hold similar values is because most people get almost all of their values from their culture/environment. most nonreligious people (despite pretending to be "freethinkers" or whatever other nonsense) indirectly get some of their values from religion, since religion is probably very influential within their culture, and they get most of their values from their culture like everyone else.


Depends on what you mean by significant, but give it time, and many of the Northern and Eastern European countries will bear fewer and fewer religious influence over the generations. They're the forerunners of what I expect most "developed" countries to demographically appear (increasing atheism/humanitarianism without the religion).



Correct,an evolutionary process,the UK of the 50's I was born into was different to the one I left 50 years later,only time will answer John's question.He is right to say it has not happened anywhere yet,probably not even N.Korea,certainly not China or the old Soviet bloc countries.Funny how something essentially noble and worthy like freethinking can be dismissed in such a negative way by someone pretending to know what most of it's practitioner's actually think.
User avatar
Captain chang50
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:54 am
Location: pattaya,thailand
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby chang50 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:33 am

NoSurvivors wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:85% of the world, not to mention 85.8% of your beloved America, believe in a god of some sort. Don't you think calling 85% of the world "crazy fucks" is a stupid idea?


Perhaps 85% of the world, but definitely not 85% of America, is religious.


Sorry, I forgot. Arrogant Americans like you only give a damn about themselves. :roll:.


Still no source for that ridiculous figure?I could believe at a pinch 85% are religious but theists as well?
User avatar
Captain chang50
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:54 am
Location: pattaya,thailand
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Religion is a Mental Illness

Postby crispybits on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:54 am

john9blue wrote:
crispybits wrote:You are discounting or forgeting that there are several other ways to influence culture and imbue values. For sure "thou shalt not kill" is a biblical commandment, but we can learn that it is bad to kill someone else through non-religious means also.


i never said religion was the only way to acquire moral values. but it is a popular and effective way.


And going to the gym is a popular and effective way of keeping fit, but if all the people of the world stopped using gyms tomorrow it does not follow that the world would get less fit as a result of this.

Your argument is a good example of the fallacy of the single cause. A causes X. A is decreasing. Therefore X will decrease. It fails to take into account the other variables where B causes X, C causes X, etc etc.

When something is lacking in society from one source, often it will be compensated for by other sources. For example in a state where universal healthcare had been provided by the government, and the government stops providing universal healthcare, more charities may spring up to assist people who cannot pay for healthcare with getting the treatment they need, or more affordable insurance plans may be developed by profit-seeking corporations which would provide for the basic needs of policy holders, or more web based resources may be developed to assist people in diagnosing and treating simple ailments themselves without having to pay for a doctor, etc etc.

So I'll ask again, for the true consequences of a decline in religiosity, can you name any value/values that are exclusively religious and which cannot be imbued by secular means? These are the values that you are on solid ground in arguing would be removed from society by a removal of religion, and if you can think of some good ones then I may change my position that religion causes far more harm than good and should be removed from society completely.
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (7)

PreviousNext

Return to Whose Forum is It Anyway?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jonesthecurl, mrswdk and 9 guests

Login