Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby Shannon Apple on Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:17 pm

That's not the point of confession. A priest cannot forgive your sins. He is a link between God and the congregation. He only has the power to give you absolution for your sins, but the rest is between you and God. Only you know in your own mind and soul if you are truly sorry and no confession can help you if you're not. Even if you don't do anything bad, you are expected to examine your own conscience and put before him all of the things that you thought about, or did do, and confess them. It means thinking it through and preparing what you are going to say.

The act of confessing before God, should mean you are sorry and therefore forgiven. But as I said, you can't expect to be forgiven for something that you don't intend to put right. You have to atone for what you did. I am sure that any Christian religion teaches the same things except that they don't have confessions like we have. I don't particularly like confession, it's horrible, but we do it anyway because it forces you to face up to aspects of your life that you know you can change.

I won't pretend to be some super religious Catholic because I am not, lol, but I try to do the best I can as a person and that's all anyone can do. We all pray to the one God (people who believe that is). That's how I see it, so there really isn't any right or wrong way to do it and it all depends on what religion you were born into 90% of the time.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby chang50 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:34 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:That's not the point of confession. A priest cannot forgive your sins. He is a link between God and the congregation. He only has the power to give you absolution for your sins, but the rest is between you and God. Only you know in your own mind and soul if you are truly sorry and no confession can help you if you're not. Even if you don't do anything bad, you are expected to examine your own conscience and put before him all of the things that you thought about, or did do, and confess them. It means thinking it through and preparing what you are going to say.

The act of confessing before God, should mean you are sorry and therefore forgiven. But as I said, you can't expect to be forgiven for something that you don't intend to put right. You have to atone for what you did. I am sure that any Christian religion teaches the same things except that they don't have confessions like we have. I don't particularly like confession, it's horrible, but we do it anyway because it forces you to face up to aspects of your life that you know you can change.

I won't pretend to be some super religious Catholic because I am not, lol, but I try to do the best I can as a person and that's all anyone can do. We all pray to the one God (people who believe that is). That's how I see it, so there really isn't any right or wrong way to do it and it all depends on what religion you were born into 90% of the time.


Doesn't your last sentence,which I agree with,make you wonder that if it's just a cultural or geographical lottery that decides the details of what you believe,nobody might have the winning ticket?Or that none exists?
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:08 am

Shannon Apple wrote:That's not the point of confession. A priest cannot forgive your sins. He is a link between God and the congregation. He only has the power to give you absolution for your sins, but the rest is between you and God. Only you know in your own mind and soul if you are truly sorry and no confession can help you if you're not. Even if you don't do anything bad, you are expected to examine your own conscience and put before him all of the things that you thought about, or did do, and confess them. It means thinking it through and preparing what you are going to say.

The act of confessing before God, should mean you are sorry and therefore forgiven. But as I said, you can't expect to be forgiven for something that you don't intend to put right. You have to atone for what you did. I am sure that any Christian religion teaches the same things except that they don't have confessions like we have. I don't particularly like confession, it's horrible, but we do it anyway because it forces you to face up to aspects of your life that you know you can change.

As well as a priest, catholicism also teaches that Mary the virgin is mediator between us and God, much alike what you claim the priest's role is. Copy 'n' paste from earlier post

hahaha3hahaha wrote:Catholicism teaches that Mary is the intercessor between man and God. Let's see what the bible has to say about that.

1 Tim 2:5– For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6– Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
969 … “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”
Questions and Answers about Mary
6. How is Mary our intercessor?
"Mary is our intercessor because in heaven she continues to intercede with her Son, Jesus, for us in the world.
She is our intercessor because of the following reasons: (1) As worthy Mother of God and full of grace, she occupies a middle position between God and his creatures. (2) Together with Christ and under him, she cooperated in the reconciliation of God and mankind while she was still on earth. (3) Now from heaven she distributes the graces that God bestows on his children."
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:48 am

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:BUT where you err is in thinking that this is as absolute as all that. Remember that the priests, under Roman Catholic tradition, are not working on their own power, they are merely agents of God, the Lord. They give the words, but the ultimate forgiveness comes from God, not the priest.. even if the priests are the ones passing on the penalties, etc. In real Roman Catholicism (as opposed to what many Roman Catholics THINK is Roman Catholicism), there is more subtlety involved. You cannot just get penance, if your heart doesn't truly repent. Its just that the church cannot see into someone's soul/heart, so they look at the superficialities as a means of basically bringing people into the "heart" portion. Basically its "do the traditions and it will bring you closer to God, even if your heart is not 100% always 'there' ". Also, while I see the pitfall in places even these words into the hands of priests, because priests are human and thus subject to human failings and false judgements, Roman Catholics don't see it that way.

Man cannot forgive/absolve/pardon sins. Our discrepancy lies in the fine line between "being an agent of God" and attempting to assume God's roles/responsibilities.

I am only going to get into this one point, because you don't seem really interested in hearing any other opinions or ideas.

First, its not "our" discrepancy. I am not Roman Catholic. As to your point, that is pretty much what I said, why I am not Roman Catholic. BUT..the point you miss is that while many Roman Catholics do, indeed basically see the Priest as "assuming God's role" -- that is actually, themselves, passing the judgement/forgiveness, this is not true Roman Catholic Doctrine The real and true Roman Catholic Doctrine on this point is very similar to that of Protestants. The main place where we differ is in whether we believe ANY pennance can "undo" a sin, in any real way. Protestants tend to say "by Grace alone" -- aka Paul, whereas Roman Catholics tend to lean more to "faith without works is dead". I would argue that EITHER point can be taken to extreme, both are partially incorrect, but we humans are limited in our ability to understand and, particularly to implement God's plans. This is why Christ had 12 disciples, not 1, why there have, since the beginning been multiple churches. (traditionally, we tend to talk about 7 'original' churches).

The REAL point is that we all fall within and under the umbrella of Christ. We are allowed to disagree and to debate, but division is the tool of Satan, not Christ.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:08 am

chang50 wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:

I won't pretend to be some super religious Catholic because I am not, lol, but I try to do the best I can as a person and that's all anyone can do. We all pray to the one God (people who believe that is). That's how I see it, so there really isn't any right or wrong way to do it and it all depends on what religion you were born into 90% of the time.


Doesn't your last sentence,which I agree with,make you wonder that if it's just a cultural or geographical lottery that decides the details of what you believe,nobody might have the winning ticket?Or that none exists?

It could be. It could be that there is one, true, "ultimate truth", but that the way different people must each, individually reach it differs. This might sound a tad like Hinduism, but I mean something more specific. All musicians play music, but some play drums, some play the Clarinet, some play Tuba. Each is important for an orchestra, but the path to learn each is pretty specific. Few can "bounce" from one to another.

I don't really know what the "ultimate truth" is, except I do firmly believe in Christianity. What I also believe, though, is that Christ can take many forms and go by many names. I met southern women in the deep south of Mississippi who saw Christ, who "connected" with Christ primarily through Gospel sings and hymns. I have seen more "hippie churchers" who connected through "drums and hugs". I have seen many who find deep, private contemplation through going to church in "suits and ties", reciting liturgy... and monks who escape and rarely come back to be with other people as a way of pursuing their personal faith. If we, in the US church, can see and understand so much variation in what is almost the "same" culture, then would God not be able to find ways to reach people who think entirely differently in other ways?

The only real evidence I have is from folks like those involved with Wycliff (sp?) Bible translators, who spend over a year, maybe 2 before even beginning to mention anything close to the word "God". They feel it takes that long to truly understand the culture enough to be able to truly communicate God's word. Further, even once they reach "full fluency", they will not go about and massively instruct, they will find 1-2 people to talk with. The goal is to find someone within that culture who can come back and learn the Bible in English (or another language) well enough to then translate it back to their own people. Anyway, they say that , inevitably, once they get to the point of "talking God", they usually get a response to the effect of "oh.. that is what you call it", meaning not just the name, but the entire religion of Christianity. Of course, there are variations, but there are variations in faith, period.

Ultimately, we each are given our own path to follow. Why or how is just something that "is". I am Christian, a Protestant Christian. I do not feel comfortable in the Roman Catholic Church. I don't feel comfortable in the Baptist church, either. Yet, I can recognize that each of these churches brings people to Christ, teaches them "the way" and does, for them, what my church does for me... perhaps more in many cases. I can disagree with them on individual points, debate them, but I don't condemn them as unChristian for disagreeing. Nor do I feel I can call people outside the church "bad" or even "unfaithful" because they do differently from I. If they are following their path, then they are seeking God. It is for God, not I to judge.
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