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Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby kuthoer on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:08 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
saxitoxin wrote: Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviet Union led by a Ukrainian president, not Russia! Plus, had it not been for Reagan supplying guns to the mujahadin, it would have been relatively bloodless (and perfectly legal as the intervention was requested by the Afghan government).


Interesting point but not entirely correct. The soviet president of the day Brezhnev, also a general secretary, was, indeed, Ukrainian. But he had his first stroke in 1973 and, according to US intelligence and anyone who could see :lol:, was totally out of his mind by 1977. My understanding that he was not even present at the meetings -- why do you need a mad sick person there :mrgreen: ?

The country was mostly run by Suslov (Russian, head of foreign affairs committee of the politbureau) who was strongly against invasion of Afghanistan and required a lot of convincing. The pro-invasion lobby was Andropov (Russian, head of KGB), Gromyko (Belorussian, foreign mInister) and Ustinov (Russian, defence minister). The invasion went ahead after the trio managed to convince Suslov.


Hairs can be split but, ultimately, if you're going to say the USSR invaded Afghanistan you should also say the U.S. invaded South Korea in 1950. The legal government of Afghanistan sent a formal request to the USSR for fraternal military aid. The USSR responded to that request by sending troops in a spirit of international socialist solidarity.

Ha-ha-ha, America invaded South Korea, ha-ha-ha! Saxi, has a way of rewriting history.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:17 pm

kuthoer wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
saxitoxin wrote: Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviet Union led by a Ukrainian president, not Russia! Plus, had it not been for Reagan supplying guns to the mujahadin, it would have been relatively bloodless (and perfectly legal as the intervention was requested by the Afghan government).


Interesting point but not entirely correct. The soviet president of the day Brezhnev, also a general secretary, was, indeed, Ukrainian. But he had his first stroke in 1973 and, according to US intelligence and anyone who could see :lol:, was totally out of his mind by 1977. My understanding that he was not even present at the meetings -- why do you need a mad sick person there :mrgreen: ?

The country was mostly run by Suslov (Russian, head of foreign affairs committee of the politbureau) who was strongly against invasion of Afghanistan and required a lot of convincing. The pro-invasion lobby was Andropov (Russian, head of KGB), Gromyko (Belorussian, foreign mInister) and Ustinov (Russian, defence minister). The invasion went ahead after the trio managed to convince Suslov.


Hairs can be split but, ultimately, if you're going to say the USSR invaded Afghanistan you should also say the U.S. invaded South Korea in 1950. The legal government of Afghanistan sent a formal request to the USSR for fraternal military aid. The USSR responded to that request by sending troops in a spirit of international socialist solidarity.


Ha-ha-ha, America invaded South Korea, ha-ha-ha! Saxi, has a way of rewriting history.


I didn't say it did. America was invited in by the South Korean dictator Syngman Rhee to fight as mercenaries to defend and recapture the factories of Rhee's big business allies. Through conscription, the U.S. then forced members of the lower classes of American society to go fight and die for Rhee in exchange for a cut of the commercial profits that many wealthy American families subsequently realized thanks to favorable trade pacts the ROK gave companies run by America's most illustrious families. Utterly despicable, of course, but not an invasion.

Just like the USSR - invited in by the legal government of Afghanistan - did not invade Afghanistan.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby patches70 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:43 pm

Saxi has a point, the PDPA and Russia signed a treaty in 1978 that allowed the PDPA to ask for Soviet military assistance. And the PDPA did just that in 1979.

It's eerily similar to how the US got embroiled in Vietnam. Russia sent military advisers and training staff at first, then troops and material and before long they found themselves fighting the war for the PDPA instead of merely assisting. Pretty much exactly the same way the US entered the Vietnam war.

Debacles none the less.

To me it's more like comparing the US as invading South Vietnam, which we pretty much did. We bombed the hell out of South Vietnam (as well as the north and Vietnam's neighbors). We helped our ally who requested assistance by literally destroying and poisoning our ally's entire country. And we still lost!

Well played!

Anyway, the current crazy over the thinking that the US has to do something about Ukraine is the same line of thinking as the long since discredited Domino Theory that got us involved in a war that was none of our business in the first place.

Ukraine is more of the same bullshit and people still fall for it. Ukraine is irrelevant to the US national security. It doesn't matter who controls it or the Crimea, at least it doesn't matter to our own national security. Not once in the entire history of the United States has it ever mattered who controlled the Ukraine.
Why does it matter now?

Anybody who thinks Russia and Putin are going to invade all the other old Soviet satellites is out of their mind. Not even Putin is that stupid.
After all, it wasn't NATO that won the Cold War. It was Nationalism that won the Cold War. Putin trying to take over those once held nations would be far more hassle than value. Putin knows that, we know that.

But Ukraine, where half the country has nationalistic ideas while the other half doesn't and is sympathetic and in instances yearning for their old rulers, it's another story all together. And the US meddling around in that environment is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby GoranZ on Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:26 pm


Saw the same but only posted the RT video... tho the original stories are quite better :D

DoomYoshi wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:He can order tax audits for all US businesses in Russia.


That's why I can't stand Putin. Why should the President have that ability? Imagine if every registered Republican was audited every year for 8 years because Obama was elected.

1. Who are you to tell others how to organize their country?
1. Does anyone else is telling you how Canada or US to be organized?
1. Is it Democratic behavior you to tell others what they should or think?

kuthoer wrote:Let Russia go ahead and chase all the foreign investment out of their shrinking economy. Let Russia invade Eastern Ukraine and lose even more rubles occupying this region. Putin will isolate his country from the West and his country will be slowly squeezed financially.

Putin will watch his popularity hit rock bottom in the next couple of years and the Russians will see their jobs disappear and incomes drop.

So...the only real income that Russia can draw on is oil and gas revenue, do the leaders hang themselves by shutting the valves off to the West? Gonna be interesting to see how all this plays out over the next several months.

1. Don't get me wrong but you are very dumb when it comes to economy. There are countries in the world that would be glad to take over what West will abandon in Russia, so dont full your self that Russia will be left without investors ;)
1. Russia sells something that the West(especially EU) doesn't have, if EU was able to replace Russia it would have done it so far.
1. Without Russia's gas EU will sink into resection that could last very long time.
1. EU has 2 options... Make arrangements with Russia or freeze next winter :lol:

kuthoer wrote:We Americans are free to criticize American policies, as we have strongly during the Vietnam War.

You are free :lol: I bet some NSA agent already know what you have done as far as he can wish... Or that is for your safety, so you wont harm your self :shock:

kuthoer wrote:Snowden did a treasonous act, since he worked for the government via contract work.

Revealing illegal actions done by the government is treason? Is that Democracy or Freedom? I dont think so ;)

patches70 wrote:Saxi has a point, the PDPA and Russia signed a treaty in 1978 that allowed the PDPA to ask for Soviet military assistance. And the PDPA did just that in 1979.

It's eerily similar to how the US got embroiled in Vietnam. Russia sent military advisers and training staff at first, then troops and material and before long they found themselves fighting the war for the PDPA instead of merely assisting. Pretty much exactly the same way the US entered the Vietnam war.

Debacles none the less.

To me it's more like comparing the US as invading South Vietnam, which we pretty much did. We bombed the hell out of South Vietnam (as well as the north and Vietnam's neighbors). We helped our ally who requested assistance by literally destroying and poisoning our ally's entire country. And we still lost!

Well played!

Anyway, the current crazy over the thinking that the US has to do something about Ukraine is the same line of thinking as the long since discredited Domino Theory that got us involved in a war that was none of our business in the first place.

Ukraine is more of the same bullshit and people still fall for it. Ukraine is irrelevant to the US national security. It doesn't matter who controls it or the Crimea, at least it doesn't matter to our own national security. Not once in the entire history of the United States has it ever mattered who controlled the Ukraine.
Why does it matter now?

Anybody who thinks Russia and Putin are going to invade all the other old Soviet satellites is out of their mind. Not even Putin is that stupid.
After all, it wasn't NATO that won the Cold War. It was Nationalism that won the Cold War. Putin trying to take over those once held nations would be far more hassle than value. Putin knows that, we know that.

But Ukraine, where half the country has nationalistic ideas while the other half doesn't and is sympathetic and in instances yearning for their old rulers, it's another story all together. And the US meddling around in that environment is a recipe for disaster.

Couldn't agree more but be careful, you might be labeled as traitor from someone :D

Kiev’s Inter TV channel was attacked by nationalist activists, who accused the media outlet of being pro-Russian.

Is this the western freedom all proWesterners talk about?
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:50 pm

Qwert wrote:interesting how pro-west supporters notice Russian intervention in Chechnia, Afghanistan and Georgia, and forget how US intervene in Afghanistan.


One of the greatest success stories in US "intervention". I don't forget it, we parade it all day.

kuthoer wrote:Your tongue in cheek nonsense is that. Snowden did a treasonous act, since he worked for the government via contract work.

Nope, This is the Oath he swore to:
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

And he did exactly that. The NSA is an enemy. For all I know, they are selling the info to Putin.

GoranZ wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:He can order tax audits for all US businesses in Russia.


That's why I can't stand Putin. Why should the President have that ability? Imagine if every registered Republican was audited every year for 8 years because Obama was elected.

1. Who are you to tell others how to organize their country?
1. Does anyone else is telling you how Canada or US to be organized?
1. Is it Democratic behavior you to tell others what they should or think?

1. Who would I need to be?
1. Yes, all the time. I read policy briefs. That's what I do. There are tons of suggestions about how Canada or the US should be organized.
1. Democracy requires Freedom of Speech. If I (or a citizen of a country) am not allowed to say what I think then democracy can not flourish. Let me rephrase your question: "Is it undemocratic for doctors to say that smoking kills?" It's a nonsensical question. Is it undemocratic to say that a President with supreme powers who has control of the media and can publish any story he wishes and only stories he wishes; who has control of the judicial system and can with inpunity arrest people on political charges or cause them to be audited might be a bad thing. Why isn't it? Did you vote in the last Macedonian election? That election had the turnout of a funeral home's residents. I imagine you haven't the foggiest about what democracy means or how it might be implemented.

The greatest question of the 21st century is one that was a thought experiment in the 20th century. If a population chooses to live in an autocratic dictatorship, is it still a democracy? In the 90s it was thought that democracy was inevitable. Modernity would win. The greatest philosophical conundrum of the Ideology phase of history is now in practice. I still don't know what the answer is.

Here's another question for you. If a girl is forced into sex slavery by the age of 6 - and that's all she knows - and she is rescued into a shelter at 16 - and she wants to reward her rescuers by making a porno - is it a democratic choice for her to do this? Is this right? What we have now is the same situation. There hasn't really been a strong non-dictatorship in Russia since the 20s. Nobody there even knows what freedom is, tangibly. In Czech they had a stable democracy for a while, and democracy has really rooted there as there were still many alive who remembered the time before the USSR invasion.

It would be unChristian of somebody to abandon those in the world who choose evil. It is our responsibility to show the light. This has nothing to do with democracy. This is a question of charity. What I am saying may not be "democratic" but is charitable and if you donate to me, I will give you a tax receipt.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:35 am

Soviet army orientation cards for soldiers engaged in the fraternal military aid to Afghanistan, issued to Soviet soldiers while the U.S. was sending surface-to-air missiles to religious nutcases who wanted to topple the government and ban women from reading (and eventually would) -

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Do not undress, sunbathe or swim in the sight of local population or near houses since such behavior is not in keeping with national and religious customs of the Afghans and is considered offensive.

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Do not enter the courtyards or houses of the local population, look through their windows and doors, or at the faces of women.

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Value the honor and integrity of Soviet citizenship. Follow Soviet law, uphold the military oath and military regulations, carry out the orders of commanders and leaders and conscientiously fulfill your duty to international socialism.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:46 am



=D> =D> =D>

Great find. This is typical of U.S. media. The #1 job of U.S. media is to whip the American population into war hysteria. Very little journalism is actually involved in the U.S. propaganda machine.

Remember "Gay Girl Damascus" - the oppressed lesbian in Damascus who all American media reported on for months but who turned out to be a middle aged white man living in Iowa? Or the "Dr." Elizabeth Bagley, who John Kerry sourced as an expert on Syria but who subsequently turned out to have lied about all her degrees? Or how about any of these ...

Following the 2013 arrest of DPRK offiical Jang Song-thaek on charges of corruption, scores of U.S. media, including MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, reported he had been eaten alive by a pack of ravenous dogs on the orders of Kim Jong-un.[11] After the reports began to gain traction, Trevor Powell, a Chicago-based software engineer, discovered the story had originated from the blog of a Chinese satirist.

Over a period of several years, many U.S. and European media outlets - including ESPN and the New York Times - have reported that Kim Jong-il once claimed to have shot five holes in one during his first attempt at playing golf (an alternate version of the story claims North Korean media once reported Kim had shot 18 holes in one). The underlying implication of the claim is that the North Korean government assigns supernatural feats of heroism to its leaders as part of an effort to perpetuate a cult of personality. Despite the wide propagation of the story, no original source for the report has ever been offered, with Western media outlets most frequently citing each other as proof of the claim. NK News reports that "informal surveys of North Koreans themselves revealed that no one in Pyongyang was aware of this legendary feat, unless told it by a tourist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_in_re ... te_note-17


It's incredible a handful of dolts still believe western media and use it to do things like call for sanctions against Russia. In the Neo-Gramscian perspective, the hegemonic alliance (the U.S., multinational corporations, and international financial institutions) uses its dominance over intellectual and cultural institutions to create outrageous storylines that are presented as "common sense." While these storylines are based on the most ridiculous lies, their branding as "common sense" means they become verboten as topics for legitimate debate, even by those on the opposite side. This is how the hegemon protects its preeminent informational position and effects subtle forms of propagandizing.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby mrswdk on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:47 am

'R.J. Rummel, an analyst of political killings, estimated that Soviet forces were responsible for 250,000 democidal killings during the war and that the government of Afghanistan was responsible for 178,000 democidal killings.

In the worst year of the war, 1985, well over half of all the farmers who remained in Afghanistan had their fields bombed, and over one quarter had their irrigation systems destroyed and their livestock shot by Soviet or government troops.

The population of Afghanistan's second largest city, Kandahar, was reduced from 200,000 before the war to no more than 25,000 inhabitants, following a months-long campaign of carpet bombing and bulldozing by the Soviets and Afghan communist soldiers in 1987.'


I guess this would also be a good point to send a LOLWUT GoranZ's way in response to his assertion that only the US killed civilians during its incursions into other people's countries
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:55 am

mrswdk wrote:R.J. Rummel


Rummell is a lunatic who wrote a series of bizarre, self-published children's books about a time traveling 12 year old who travels through history with a magic butcher knife he uses to systematically slaughter and dismember all of America's enemies.

So, yeah.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby kuthoer on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:50 am

Ok, Saxi, the Soviet Army respects civilians by flattening villages with attack helicopters and tanks in Afghanistan and Chechnya
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby GoranZ on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:02 am

GoranZ wrote:1. Who are you to tell others how to organize their country?

DoomYoshi wrote:1. Who would I need to be?

Don't act stupid... You are not Russian, so you should not tell them how they should organize their country. Its up to them, not up to you. Basic UN privilege.

GoranZ wrote:1. Does anyone else is telling you how Canada or US to be organized?

DoomYoshi wrote:1. Yes, all the time. I read policy briefs. That's what I do. There are tons of suggestions about how Canada or the US should be organized.

Do I tell you how Canada should be organized, or what it should do?

GoranZ wrote:1. Is it Democratic behavior you to tell others what they should or think?

DoomYoshi wrote:1. Democracy requires Freedom of Speech. If I (or a citizen of a country) am not allowed to say what I think then democracy can not flourish.

Are you citizen of Russia? Russia will allow you to speak as much as Canada is allowing Russians to speak about Canadian issues ;)

DoomYoshi wrote:Here's another question for you. If a girl is forced into sex slavery by the age of 6 - and that's all she knows - and she is rescued into a shelter at 16 - and she wants to reward her rescuers by making a porno - is it a democratic choice for her to do this? Is this right? What we have now is the same situation.

This is not related to current situation in any way, you are wasting your time

DoomYoshi wrote:There hasn't really been a strong non-dictatorship in Russia since the 20s.

Current Russia government is one of the most democratic governments since the creation of Russian state over 1 millennia ago :D

DoomYoshi wrote:Nobody there even knows what freedom is, tangibly.

Are you trying to say that the Russians are stupid? :shock:
Let me update you Fascist brain... Every living creature in the world knows what freedom is, even those born in slavery ;)

DoomYoshi wrote:In Czech they had a stable democracy for a while, and democracy has really rooted there as there were still many alive who remembered the time before the USSR invasion.

:lol: As far as I know USSR had parts that now are Canada's ally's... Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Occupied Ukraine...

DoomYoshi wrote:It would be unChristian of somebody to abandon those in the world who choose evil. It is our responsibility to show the light. This has nothing to do with democracy. This is a question of charity. What I am saying may not be "democratic" but is charitable and if you donate to me, I will give you a tax receipt.

Go in Saudi Arabia(Canada's ally in the middle east) say the previous and try to live threw the next 5 minutes... I'm strongly convinced that you will become dog food the same day ;)

mrswdk wrote:I guess this would also be a good point to send a LOLWUT GoranZ's way in response to his assertion that only the US killed civilians during its incursions into other people's countries

But you are talking about USSR(ruled by another political system), not for Russia alone. Regardless if you agree with me or not for the previous, you must agree that lately Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties much more then US.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby mrswdk on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:15 am

GoranZ wrote:But you are talking about USSR(ruled by another political system), not for Russia alone.


The USSR was basically just Russia, especially in terms of the make-up of its military.

GoranZ wrote:Regardless if you agree with me or not for the previous, you must agree that lately Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties much more then US


On what grounds would I agree with that statement? Russia made more effort to avoid civilian deaths in Chechnya and Georgia than the US has in Afghanistan and Iraq?

The US are still pretty good at accidentally shooting people who are fighting on the same side as them, but they do at least seem to have learned that it's bad publicity to storm into another country and decimate the local civilian population.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:00 pm

mrswdk wrote:
GoranZ wrote:But you are talking about USSR(ruled by another political system), not for Russia alone.


The USSR was basically just Russia, especially in terms of the make-up of its military.


The USSR was a multi-ethnic state dedicated to arresting what Busch called "the secret deployment" as the vanguard of the planned Socialist World Republic. Russia is a homogeneous mercantilist state that stands in opposition to the globalist order of international capital (along with fratre powers like China, India, and Brazil).

The ethnicities of the General-Secretaries of the All-Union Communist Party since underscore this:

    Stalin - Georgian
    Kruschev - Russian
    Brezhnev - Ukrainian
    Andropov - Russian / Finnish
    Chernenko - Ukrainian
    Gorbachev - Russian
    Ivashko - Ukrainian
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:10 pm

This week in Manila, thousands of Pinoys and Pinays took to the street to protest America's warmongering and brinksmanship by burning the globally hated Obama in effigy:



The frightened American puppet government, which took refuge in Malacanang Palace, sent their troops into the streets to break-up the 100% peaceful protest. Still, we see the world is erupting in flame at indignation of the United States' policy of global aggression. The twilight of the west is here and the impotent and hilarious "sanctions" against Russia are the desperate claw scratches of a Goliath clinging to a cliff over an abyss into which it's about to fall.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby kuthoer on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:05 pm

It won't be long when China will implode. Russia will slowly burn it's self out, once their people realize that Nationalism only benefits the elite.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby mrswdk on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:48 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Russia is a homogeneous mercantilist state that stands in opposition to the globalist order of international capital (along with fratre powers like China, India, and Brazil).


lols. Those four countries are all members of the WTO.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby kuthoer on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 pm

mrswdk wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Russia is a homogeneous mercantilist state that stands in opposition to the globalist order of international capital (along with fratre powers like China, India, and Brazil).


lols. Those four countries are all members of the WTO.

Just wait and Saxi will copy and paste another ridiculous post.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby Pope Joan on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:31 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
    Stalin - Georgian
    Kruschev - Russian
    Brezhnev - Ukrainian
    Andropov - Russian / Finnish
    Chernenko - Ukrainian
    Gorbachev - Russian
    Ivashko - Ukrainian


I will take you on w.r.t. Kruschev and Chernenko. Khruschev might have been ethnically Russian but he grew up on the border with Ukraine (Kursk) and spent the beginning of his career in Donbass. So, ideologically, he is Ukrainian. On the opposite, Chernenko's parents were of Ukrainian origin, but he grew up in SIberia, deep in Russia, so probably felt himself Russian rather Ukrainian...

You are right on a big scale. Another interesting illustration are the nationlities of Stalin's executors-in-chiefs, btw, all shot as British spies :D :
Yahoda - Jew,
Ezhov - Russian,
Beriah - Georgian.

kuthoer wrote: Russia will slowly burn it's self out, once their people realize that Nationalism only benefits the elite.


As a hellfire, it does benefit the elite. Think what benefits elites in other countries :mrgreen: Back to Russia, it is searching for a new ideology, indeed, embracing a wide mixture of nationalism, orthodox christianity, pan-slavism and socialism. It may explode, but it may survive for a while. God knows...
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:21 pm

kuthoer wrote:It won't be long when China will implode. Russia will slowly burn it's self out,


lmao

Russia has been on the verge of collapse for the last 400 years.

the patriotic chest-thumping in this thread has gotten ridiculous; I can almost hear the sound of banjos, bald eagles and Chevy truck engines in the background when I read your posts ... the repetition of irrelevant, uninformed, nationalist tripe spoon fed to you by big business media whose job is to whip the plebes into war hysteria

Pope Joan wrote:You are right on a big scale.


don't I know it, Pioneer Joan
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:15 am

mrswdk wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Russia is a homogeneous mercantilist state that stands in opposition to the globalist order of international capital (along with fratre powers like China, India, and Brazil).


lols. Those four countries are all members of the WTO.


This is a very simple assessment of the realities of the present situation. The accession of Brazil, for instance, was negotiated when the reactionary right-wing parties were ruling the country, before the rise of the Worker's Party. Nonetheless, domestic realities require accommodation in governance internally while simultaneously advancing the internationalist war of position. The IFCI did a good job of breaking down Brazil's situation:

    For another part of the so-called “left” in the G-20 countries, it is a matter of quitting the WTO and adopting an economic policy centered on the promotion of the internal market—as if this would resolve the grave social problems existing in their nation states! According to these sections of supposed “socialists,” such as the MST (Landless Workers Movement) and the Via Campesina (a type of peasant international), and even NGOs that uphold a hypothetical “solidarity trade,” these massive social problems can be resolved, or at least ameliorated, if each state would direct its power to expanding the mass internal market and adopted a policy of self-sufficiency in food production.

    The struggle confronting working people in Brazil and the other countries that make up the G-20 is not that of defending a national capitalist economy based on self-sufficiency and “solidarity,” nor that of guaranteeing greater access to the world capitalist market for one or another capitalist country. It can never be forgotten that behind the efforts of agrarian capital represented by the G-20 lies the super-exploitation of agricultural workers in these countries.

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2007/01/braz-j24.html

In the prison notebooks, Gramsci posited that the counter-hegemony will advance its goals by co-opting the institutions of the capitalist order from within rather than attempting their destruction. The Gramscian position has now proven the only valid theoretical lens through which we can analyze international relations. In the BRIC nations we see an expanding challenge to the withering capitalist triumvirate of USA-IMF-MNCs. This is one reason USA has become more unhinged and violent lately; it is like the flickering of a star before it goes supernova or the death convulsions of a big fat pig at the barnyard butcher.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby mrswdk on Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:23 am

Why do you live in the US?
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby kuthoer on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:37 am

saxitoxin wrote:
kuthoer wrote:It won't be long when China will implode. Russia will slowly burn it's self out,


lmao

Russia has been on the verge of collapse for the last 400 years.

the patriotic chest-thumping in this thread has gotten ridiculous; I can almost hear the sound of banjos, bald eagles and Chevy truck engines in the background when I read your posts ... the repetition of irrelevant, uninformed, nationalist tripe spoon fed to you by big business media whose job is to whip the plebes into war hysteria

Pope Joan wrote:You are right on a big scale.


don't I know it, Pioneer Joan

Saxi honey, I'm a Socialist period.

You on the other hand have become a cartoon caricature of old propaganda posters of the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. Oh the glorious revolution of the peasants and all the while killing millions through starvation, work camps and outright murder of anyone who would whisper discontent of their leaders.

Today 's Russia is run by elites who'll do anything to stay in power, this includes using patriotism and nationalism to keep power in their sticky hands.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:26 am

kuthoer wrote: I'm a Socialist period.


LMAO! :lol: :lol: :lol: So you're a socialist who happens to agree with neocon Republican senator John "Blood 'n Guts" McCain on all matters of foreign policy?

What socialist groups do you belong to? You would be unwelcome in any socialist or social democratic organization you attempted to join anywhere in the U.S., and certainly anywhere in the world.

Every major progressive and socialist thinker, group, and publication, in the U.S. has come out in opposition to the U.S. exploitation of Ukraine, from Noam Chomsky to Cindy Sheehan, to Andrew Vitcheck, to Bob Avakian, to Ralph Nader, to Socialist Alternative, to the Freedom Socialist Party, to the Socialist Worker's Party, to the Green Party, to Worker's World, etc. This Counterpunch article neatly encapsulates the progressive view toward the U.S. military expansionism in Europe vis a vis Ukraine.

Outside the U.S., the world's largest socialist parties have all uniformly denounced U.S. gangsterism. The leader of Germany's Die Linke last month made said on the floor of the European Parliament that "The West must recognise the legitimate security interests of Russia in the Crimea ... we must find a place for the Crimea, Ukraine and the Russian Federation with which we can live. We must guarantee Russia that Ukraine will never become a NATO member."

You sound as lucid and unhinged as JB. You are cheering the persecution of Edward Snowden, U.S. drone strikes, etc. You have absolutely zero idea what socialism is; you think it's about tax reform. You wear a Che t-shirt while simultaneously attacking Cuba's solidarity with Russia. You are a banjo-playing, Chevy-driving, Cheetos-eating, flag waving, bumpkin nationalist who suffers from schizophrenia. While I wouldn't be surprised if you knew Matt Kenseth's NASCAR number, I'd be shocked if you could find Ukraine on a map. Go away little boy, the grown-ups are trying to have a talk.
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Re: Congratulations to the people of Donetsk

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:18 am

mrswdk wrote:Why do you live in the US?


I prefer shaved women.
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