Football (real)

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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:37 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
betiko wrote:and I just saw that the russian minister of sports rejected the idea of a "soviet" league today, that was asked mostly by the zenith saint petersbourg. The minister claims that being within the top 10 leagues in europe it's good enough for him.
I don't see how such a league would exist, it's not like there are more than a couple of clubs in the Baltic or Slavic states that would compete in the Russian league anyway.

At most only the top 2 from Croatia and Serbia would even stand a chance avoiding relegation.


"soviet" as in ex USSR, croatia and serbia are ex yougoslavian, never were part of the USSR (even if serbia was very close to the USSR).
I bet that if the shaktar donetsk was in the "soviet league" they would kick the ass of any russian team, including the CSKA and Zenith. But yeah, basically it would mostly be russian+ukranian league, all other ex-ussr countries are irrelevant. Ukrane has at least 4-5 teams that would improve a lot the russian championship (shaktar, dynamo, metalurg, dniepr..). the Bate Borisov from belarus would be good enough as well.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:49 pm

Pirlo wrote:
maxfaraday wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:
betiko wrote:pelé is a fucking idiot. he played almost all of his games vs half ass teams from the paulista championship, and like 20% of his goals are not completely officially proven. He never had the balls to play in europe, and the only thing he does is criticize everything that is not brazilian.

neymar is a very talented player for sure but he isn't even miles away from the others even in brazil... santos was ridiculous this season!

oh and hat trick for Ibra with the PSG last night, 17 goals in 14 games so far! :shock:


Pele did play in Europe regularly. Santos traveled and played in Europe quite a bit back then. http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/thre ... ew.157423/


Friendly games?


I don't think there was any friendly game in the THREE World Cups he won.


Did you know that he didn't actually play in 1962 world cup because he was injured? I think he played less than one game. and did you know that Brazil team during that era was full of legends, like Barca now?


oh wow, impressive friendly games. Well I guess Pelé is right, Messi is shit and with 90+ goals this season he still has a lot to prove.

That makes me soooo want argentina to beat brazil in next world cup! (the 2014 world cup will be won by france as everybody knows).

Even though who is worse in "hasbeen" shit talk? pelé, beckenbauer, maradona or cruyff? I hate them all as grumpy old men they are (even if they have my respect as players)
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Re: Football (real)

Postby maxfaraday on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:03 pm

betiko wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
maxfaraday wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:
betiko wrote:pelé is a fucking idiot. he played almost all of his games vs half ass teams from the paulista championship, and like 20% of his goals are not completely officially proven. He never had the balls to play in europe, and the only thing he does is criticize everything that is not brazilian.

neymar is a very talented player for sure but he isn't even miles away from the others even in brazil... santos was ridiculous this season!

oh and hat trick for Ibra with the PSG last night, 17 goals in 14 games so far! :shock:


Pele did play in Europe regularly. Santos traveled and played in Europe quite a bit back then. http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/thre ... ew.157423/


Friendly games?


I don't think there was any friendly game in the THREE World Cups he won.


Did you know that he didn't actually play in 1962 world cup because he was injured? I think he played less than one game. and did you know that Brazil team during that era was full of legends, like Barca now?


oh wow, impressive friendly games. Well I guess Pelé is right, Messi is shit and with 90+ goals this season he still has a lot to prove.

That makes me soooo want argentina to beat brazil in next world cup! (the 2014 world cup will be won by france as everybody knows).

Even though who is worse in "hasbeen" shit talk? pelé, beckenbauer, maradona or cruyff? I hate them all as grumpy old men they are (even if they have my respect as players)


Here we go again another messi fanboy...
With Barcelona messi is nothing, without messi Barcelona is still the best team in the world (even though I don't like Barcelona).
Without Maradona Argentina wouldn't have won 86, without Argentina Maradona was/is still a legend.

stats: #1 Pelé (3 world cups and more goals than messi will ever score)

raw talent: #1 George Best


overall: #1 Cruijff



overated: #1 messi ("legally" drugged and having the whole team of Barcelona playing for him)
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:43 pm

lol, this is not even about talking about football or not, it's about being completely subjective.
You are too young for all these guys you are worshiping and you have never seen them play game by game over a whole season.
Again, don't compare pelé's bullshit goal count with almost all his goals scored in a regional champioship from the 50-60s when physical conditions were jokes.

Maradona is a legend because of what he represented and because his attitude, he is a showman, he's been through major up and downs with comebacks. He isn't even close to messi's raw talent, and most of all, CONSISTENCY. Maradona IS the #1 over rated player, given that there is even a religion to worship him.

You are admitting that you don't like barcelona, and guardiola's barcelona is probably the team of the century. I had never seen a team with such ball possesion, consistency and able to atomize any given rival. The fact that they didn't win in 2010 and 2012 the champion's league was pretty much a joke each time, and everybody knows that if they had played 100 times inter and chelsea they would ve lost only once.

"with barcelona messi is nothing"? lol, I think you need to reconsider this joke.

FYI, also look at Messi's statistics and great goals with argentina in 2012. It's not his fault if maradona the jackass was argentina's head coach last world cup and he almost didn't qualify them to south africa when it's the best team on the paper.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby Pirlo on Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:00 pm

betiko wrote:lol, this is not even about talking about football or not, it's about being completely subjective.
You are too young for all these guys you are worshiping and you have never seen them play game by game over a whole season.
Again, don't compare pelé's bullshit goal count with almost all his goals scored in a regional champioship from the 50-60s when physical conditions were jokes.

Maradona is a legend because of what he represented and because his attitude, he is a showman, he's been through major up and downs with comebacks. He isn't even close to messi's raw talent, and most of all, CONSISTENCY. Maradona IS the #1 over rated player, given that there is even a religion to worship him.

You are admitting that you don't like barcelona, and guardiola's barcelona is probably the team of the century. I had never seen a team with such ball possesion, consistency and able to atomize any given rival. The fact that they didn't win in 2010 and 2012 the champion's league was pretty much a joke each time, and everybody knows that if they had played 100 times inter and chelsea they would ve lost only once.

"with barcelona messi is nothing"? lol, I think you need to reconsider this joke.

FYI, also look at Messi's statistics and great goals with argentina in 2012. It's not his fault if maradona the jackass was argentina's head coach last world cup and he almost didn't qualify them to south africa when it's the best team on the paper.


Dun worry Betiko, he's a hater :lol:

As for the quote in red, I believe he meant to say "Without."

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Re: Football (real)

Postby chang50 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:50 am

nietzsche wrote:And Chicharito does it again!



Ugh..... I hate Man U with a passion you can only imagine,the happiest day of my life was 20/10/1996,Newcastle U 5 Man U 0,and I was there..
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Re: Football (real)

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:39 am

Actually, i call it to be useless wording for a player to be everything or nothing, with this without that whatever.
Messi is nothing without iniesta and xavi...What an outstanding!!! idea this is, lol.
Without messi, barca WILL sure suck it up bad. Take him out to see...
This is football, being played with 11 players, a team game...

Maradona is being compared with pele, he is with brazillian ronaldo, this is with that and so...
You are missing the change of time...Change in time brought a lot of changes in football, in any sports, in any field...
In years pele played, football was personal abilities more than atletizm, muscle, stamina, whatever. In years, footballers are asked to have additional abilities to be addition over their playing skills...So, comparing a football player with another, the question when he played actively has got a lot to say...

To me, the best footballer ever, it is Former Brazillian Striker Ronaldo...Far far better than any other exsited or existing now. Numbers, scored goals, statistics who cares. He used to be an artist, used to be a form of God showing himself on the field. Didnt have such an entertainment to be close to one i used to get when ronaldo was on the pitch.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby Jamie on Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:48 am

How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"
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Re: Football (real)

Postby chang50 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 am

Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


Or the 'beautiful game',as it is known worldwide.Go back to your parochial minority interest sports which the rest of the world couldn't care less about.. :roll:
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:53 am

Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


lol, 4% of the world thinks of a sport only about commercials played with the hands when you mention football. You are a minority, deal with it.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:01 am

HardAttack wrote:Actually, i call it to be useless wording for a player to be everything or nothing, with this without that whatever.
Messi is nothing without iniesta and xavi...What an outstanding!!! idea this is, lol.
Without messi, barca WILL sure suck it up bad. Take him out to see...
This is football, being played with 11 players, a team game...

Maradona is being compared with pele, he is with brazillian ronaldo, this is with that and so...
You are missing the change of time...Change in time brought a lot of changes in football, in any sports, in any field...
In years pele played, football was personal abilities more than atletizm, muscle, stamina, whatever. In years, footballers are asked to have additional abilities to be addition over their playing skills...So, comparing a football player with another, the question when he played actively has got a lot to say...

To me, the best footballer ever, it is Former Brazillian Striker Ronaldo...Far far better than any other exsited or existing now. Numbers, scored goals, statistics who cares. He used to be an artist, used to be a form of God showing himself on the field. Didnt have such an entertainment to be close to one i used to get when ronaldo was on the pitch.


I have to agree that for me Ronaldo was the best striker I have ever witnessed (in his early years, mostly in barcelona). His career is full of up and downs, and I've always liked him, he looks like a very good guy (I think it's insulting you even have to call him brazilian ronaldo). I don't think he is the best footballer ever though.

I still have problems realzing that when I was a teenager and ronaldo scored 34 goals in 1 season with barcelona I thought I would never see again such thing, and if you look at the goals scored these past 2 years in the liga by top strikers it's just unreal... C.Ronaldo, Messi and Falcao, are you fucking serious? how is that even possible? And yes, none of them has the talent of Ronaldo, but how can they be so damn consistent? how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??
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Re: Football (real)

Postby maxfaraday on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:07 am

betiko wrote: And yes, none of them has the talent of Ronaldo, but how can they be so damn consistent? how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??


You might not remember, but Ronaldo was injured (badly) a few times...
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Re: Football (real)

Postby chang50 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:11 am

betiko wrote:
HardAttack wrote:Actually, i call it to be useless wording for a player to be everything or nothing, with this without that whatever.
Messi is nothing without iniesta and xavi...What an outstanding!!! idea this is, lol.
Without messi, barca WILL sure suck it up bad. Take him out to see...
This is football, being played with 11 players, a team game...

Maradona is being compared with pele, he is with brazillian ronaldo, this is with that and so...
You are missing the change of time...Change in time brought a lot of changes in football, in any sports, in any field...
In years pele played, football was personal abilities more than atletizm, muscle, stamina, whatever. In years, footballers are asked to have additional abilities to be addition over their playing skills...So, comparing a football player with another, the question when he played actively has got a lot to say...

To me, the best footballer ever, it is Former Brazillian Striker Ronaldo...Far far better than any other exsited or existing now. Numbers, scored goals, statistics who cares. He used to be an artist, used to be a form of God showing himself on the field. Didnt have such an entertainment to be close to one i used to get when ronaldo was on the pitch.


I have to agree that for me Ronaldo was the best striker I have ever witnessed (in his early years, mostly in barcelona). His career is full of up and downs, and I've always liked him, he looks like a very good guy (I think it's insulting you even have to call him brazilian ronaldo). I don't think he is the best footballer ever though.

I still have problems realzing that when I was a teenager and ronaldo scored 34 goals in 1 season with barcelona I thought I would never see again such thing, and if you look at the goals scored these past 2 years in the liga by top strikers it's just unreal... C.Ronaldo, Messi and Falcao, are you fucking serious? how is that even possible? And yes, none of them has the talent of Ronaldo, but how can they be so damn consistent? how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??


For pure finishing ability how about Gerd Muller,'Der Bomber'?
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Re: Football (real)

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:40 am

Well, there sure were great names, with excellent finishing abilities. To me Former Brazillian Ronaldo is not one of them. If he had such finishing capabilities, then it wudnt be surprise to me him to finish a season with 80 goals, 2 goals/game avarage or even more. What used to make him amazing, mostly his ball control, technique, speed/pace, acceleration, intelligence in game play, fakes, astonishing moves, and more, but not finishing abilities. It was year 2000, Lazio-Inter game, coppa italia quarter finals, it was the only moment i saw him was a human, other than that i used to believe he was something else but not a human truely. Hey, how can ever happen a player to maximize his control, intelligence, athletic capacities all in harmony working amazing to the max ? Really really unbelievable it was...And another interesting point, he had been transferred to inter from barcelona for 19 million. If it wud happened today, no no little doubt, it wudnt be any less than 130 million. Maradona's coming to barca, not sure i think it is in 1982 or somewhere around there, it was 0.5 million barca paid to boca.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:50 am

Some folks above, calls it barca wud still do ok without messi...
An example, not to very well model but sure will put light on the matter....

Maradona stayed 1-2 years in barcelona, barcelona being his first european route, he played 2/3 of season, but remaining games, he was out of the squad due to his injured situation...Barca had lead while maradona was in the squad, and when he left due to injuries, barca lost important points, so the la liga and european thropies. Maradona, in 2 seasons in barcelona, did not have a chance to play whole season due to injuries. Barca's performance very well was tied to existence of maradona those years. And to me, it is same with messi today.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:54 am

maxfaraday wrote:
betiko wrote: And yes, none of them has the talent of Ronaldo, but how can they be so damn consistent? how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??


You might not remember, but Ronaldo was injured (badly) a few times...


of course I remember, but unless you missread I mentioned his career was full of up and downs and his best season was when he was 19 playing for barcelona and "only" scored 34 goals. He never had the consistency of cristiano ronaldo or messi as these guys are able to score 30+ goals year after year. Having a great phisical condition is part of the abilities of a player. Look at Robben for example, this guy is an awesome player but he can't play half of the games in a full season ever because he is too fragile. Nevertheless, ronaldo with the ball was the scariest shit I had ever witnessed when he was at his best.

regarding gerd "torpedo" muller, I didn't have the chance to really see him in action, but from my understanding he was more the type of guy who was an excellent finisher inside the box, one of the very best ever, not a guy who would create stuff that much.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:58 am

Not sure, but i believe today's footballers playing 10 maybe even more games than footballes of 10-15 years ago due to new shape and schedule of european competitions.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:13 am

HardAttack wrote:Well, there sure were great names, with excellent finishing abilities. To me Former Brazillian Ronaldo is not one of them. If he had such finishing capabilities, then it wudnt be surprise to me him to finish a season with 80 goals, 2 goals/game avarage or even more. What used to make him amazing, mostly his ball control, technique, speed/pace, acceleration, intelligence in game play, fakes, astonishing moves, and more, but not finishing abilities. It was year 2000, Lazio-Inter game, coppa italia quarter finals, it was the only moment i saw him was a human, other than that i used to believe he was something else but not a human truely. Hey, how can ever happen a player to maximize his control, intelligence, athletic capacities all in harmony working amazing to the max ? Really really unbelievable it was...And another interesting point, he had been transferred to inter from barcelona for 19 million. If it wud happened today, no no little doubt, it wudnt be any less than 130 million. Maradona's coming to barca, not sure i think it is in 1982 or somewhere around there, it was 0.5 million barca paid to boca.


Maradona signed for Barcelona for 8 million dollars back in 82, which was a huge thing, not 0,5. In the early 80s the spanish league was dominated by the bask teams (athletic and real sociedad) that won nearly everything, and maradona just won a copa del rey there. That team was not extraordinary, he really did great things when he played for napoli.

And Ronaldo signed up for Inter for 30,5 million euros one year after being recruited for 18 million euros by the Barça from the PSV.

But yes, prices have become more and more crazy, we know that, with so many clubs increasing their debts year after year because there has been very little control on the budgets. Hopefully Platini is changing this with the financial fair play.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby Jamie on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:22 am

chang50 wrote:
Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


Or the 'beautiful game',as it is known worldwide.Go back to your parochial minority interest sports which the rest of the world couldn't care less about.. :roll:


Really?? The Superbowl is viewed by over 1 BILLION people each year, 2nd only to the world cup final, and not by much. The US population is just short of 350 million people, and only about 100 million of those watch the game, so there are TEN times as many people watching the superbowl outside of the US then within it. The NFL also plays games in Canada and England every year, and wants to place a team in London at Wembley Stadium. It would seem to me that Football is the 3rd most popular sport in the world behind only Soccer and Baseball, both of whom have a worldwide tournament. Football has already surpassed baseball in popularity here in the US, and it will soon be number 2 in the world, and in time it may even surpass soccer.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby Jamie on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:35 am

betiko wrote:
Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


lol, 4% of the world thinks of a sport only about commercials played with the hands when you mention football. You are a minority, deal with it.


um the US population represents 5% of the world population just by itself, so your figure is already wrong, and then your figures doesnt account for the fact Canada prefers football over soccer, and the millions more around the world who prefer football over soccer. I would say the figure is much closer to 10% rather then 4%. And the fact that the sport does NOT involve hands is one of the major flaws in the game. Soccer would be FAR more interesting if the players could volley the ball with their hands or balled up fist. The hands are the two most coordinated athletic parts on the human body, and they are eliminated from use in the worlds most popular sport. And for the record, I did NOT insult soccer, I just said the title of the thread is misleading, and offered two very real unsarcastic suggestions. If anything the title does in fact insult American football, the worlds 3rd most popular sport.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:47 am

Jamie wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


Or the 'beautiful game',as it is known worldwide.Go back to your parochial minority interest sports which the rest of the world couldn't care less about.. :roll:


Really?? The Superbowl is viewed by over 1 BILLION people each year, 2nd only to the world cup final, and not by much. The US population is just short of 350 million people, and only about 100 million of those watch the game, so there are TEN times as many people watching the superbowl outside of the US then within it. The NFL also plays games in Canada and England every year, and wants to place a team in London at Wembley Stadium. It would seem to me that Football is the 3rd most popular sport in the world behind only Soccer and Baseball, both of whom have a worldwide tournament. Football has already surpassed baseball in popularity here in the US, and it will soon be number 2 in the world, and in time it may even surpass soccer.


baseball seriously? who watched baseball other than americans, cubans and japanese?

And seriously, maybe someone will tell me I'm wrong, but for any european the most followed US sport championship is the NBA by far.
Absolutely no one gives a f*ck about baseball in europe, and then I'd say people are equally interested in NHL and NFL once in a while. The fact that the NFL is selling well it's TV rights for the superbowl doesn't mean people really watch it. Someone watching 10 minutes just to see what's it's about or to see the half time show is not interested in the sport, but just curious about the event. How many people worldwide are able to tell you the next day who won the superbowl? not even half of the supposed audience for sure. Also, the superbowl usually ends on sundays at 3 or 4 in the morning european time, only trully passionate would watch it.
They have already tried to create a european NFL, and trully no one gives a f*ck. Rugby is way too popular in the uk+ireland+france+ maybe italy to see american football as competition.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am

Jamie wrote:
betiko wrote:
Jamie wrote:How misleading. I see a thread called "Football (real)" and when I click on it, is's not about football at all, it's about soccer. Just call the thread "soccer" or "European football"


lol, 4% of the world thinks of a sport only about commercials played with the hands when you mention football. You are a minority, deal with it.


um the US population represents 5% of the world population just by itself, so your figure is already wrong, and then your figures doesnt account for the fact Canada prefers football over soccer, and the millions more around the world who prefer football over soccer. I would say the figure is much closer to 10% rather then 4%. And the fact that the sport does NOT involve hands is one of the major flaws in the game. Soccer would be FAR more interesting if the players could volley the ball with their hands or balled up fist. The hands are the two most coordinated athletic parts on the human body, and they are eliminated from use in the worlds most popular sport. And for the record, I did NOT insult soccer, I just said the title of the thread is misleading, and offered two very real unsarcastic suggestions. If anything the title does in fact insult American football, the worlds 3rd most popular sport.


Football is called football everywhere. What you guys call football is called american football everywhere.
The US population is 315M in 2012, not 350M, and the world population is 7,06B, so yeah, almost 4,5% if you want, still closer to 4%. Add canada's 34M and yes, maybe you reach 5%. You are talking about people outside of NA who prefer american football, but not counting people in NA who prefer football... Or just people in NA who don't care about sports or american football. The point is that Football was created way before, has a self explanatory name compared to american football and means the same thing for 95% of the world population except for you guys. Therefore I criticize your ethnocentric view of the world as it often happens with americans.
If you want to see a sport involving hands, foot and contact, go for australian football. It's all about what you are describing, and it's obviously less popular worldwide.
The essence of football is to have the best skills with your lesser agile members, which are also the most powerfull. The restrition from using your hands is all the fun of it.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:09 am

betiko wrote:how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??

That goes back to what HA was saying about how times have changed. The training and medical staffs on those teams know a lot more know about how the body works and what is good or bad for it than they did when Ronaldo, Pélé, and Maradona played. Teams even have nutritionists know cooking up specialized diets for players - even youth players.
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Re: Football (real)

Postby betiko on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:18 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:
betiko wrote:how can they be never injured and play every freaking game??

That goes back to what HA was saying about how times have changed. The training and medical staffs on those teams know a lot more know about how the body works and what is good or bad for it than they did when Ronaldo, Pélé, and Maradona played. Teams even have nutritionists know cooking up specialized diets for players - even youth players.


you are mixing the star from the 50s-70s with the star from the 80s early 90s and the star from the late 90's early 00's.
Do you really think you can't compare ronaldo with messi in terms of physical preparation? Of course you can. I was also giving the example of Robben. Ronaldo had shit knees and a metabolic problem!
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Re: Football (real)

Postby Pirlo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:47 am

I think Ronaldo changed the football philosophy... He's probably the first great striker with pace and skills.. I don't think he got the best talent ever.. I think Ronaldinho did! A common problem for Brazilian footballers now is that their career is too short!
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