Americans: What political party are you part of?

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What political party are you?

Republican
17
39%
Democrat
10
23%
3rd Party/Independent (conservative)
4
9%
3rd Party/Independent (liberal)
13
30%
 
Total votes : 44

Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:26 pm

yep, at last we agree on something
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Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:28 pm

Bush isn't as bad a president as he's made out to be, there are few who could do as well as he has in the situation.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:57 pm

Skittlesandmnms wrote:
sfhbballnut wrote:I'm not saying I don't have a party, I'm saying they all need to go, its political reform in the interest of the American people, who the parties seem to have forgotten put them in power and are fighting there battles, not the battles of the people


i agree. George Washington did NOT want these parties... I don't really know how they got started.


ahh, the wonders of comparative government. Because we have a first past the post system (SMD plurality, call it what you will), it's pretty much guaranteed to end up with two main parties, duverger's law (i'm sure i butchered the spelling of his name...)

Essentially, the third parties can have jsut as many constituents as the main parties, but if they're spread out throughout the different voting districts, then they can't capture any seats since they dont' get a majority in any of the districts.

Proportional representation systems work SOO much better in the sense of a variety of parties in the legislature, however they're not nearly as efficient as SMD pluralities since there's less bickering. Its a trade off.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:05 pm

sfhbballnut wrote:Bush isn't as bad a president as he's made out to be, there are few who could do as well as he has in the situation.


what are you talking about?!?!?! he dindt' do anything all that great. He didnt' veto a single bill for the longest time, meaning he's essentially a puppet of his party! He handled hurricane Katrina TERRIBLY, he handled the war in Iraq TERRIBLY, first off he shoulnd't ahve even gone in there, second of all if he DID go there he should ahve had some sort of strategy, instead THOUSANDS of innocent Iraqi civilians are DIEING, you cna't jsut stand bakc and say "oops, my bad" to the families of all of those innocent civilians becasue you didn't plan for a replacement govenrment once you destroyed the existing government!

Another point that shows he has no idea what he's doing: his entire cabinet is practically his dad's cabinet, he stuck in justice alito, which destroys the balance of the supreme court. He's trying to undo some of the greatest accomplishments of the Warren court, fewer rights for the accused, forcing his belief on abortion onto others, the list goes on and on.
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Postby Joe McCarthy on Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:34 am

He's been ok, but not great. Its right to say he isnt as bad as he's been made out to be, because hes been made out to be terrible. It's true that he's spent too much money and hasn't done much of anything to stop abortions, but he's gotten in two good Supreme Court Justices, Alito and Roberts, and he got rid of the Taliban and Sadaam. He could have done better but he did allright.
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Postby Blitzkreig on Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:18 am

cowshrptrn wrote:
sfhbballnut wrote:Bush isn't as bad a president as he's made out to be, there are few who could do as well as he has in the situation.


what are you talking about?!?!?! he dindt' do anything all that great. He didnt' veto a single bill for the longest time, meaning he's essentially a puppet of his party! He handled hurricane Katrina TERRIBLY, he handled the war in Iraq TERRIBLY, first off he shoulnd't ahve even gone in there, second of all if he DID go there he should ahve had some sort of strategy, instead THOUSANDS of innocent Iraqi civilians are DIEING, you cna't jsut stand bakc and say "oops, my bad" to the families of all of those innocent civilians becasue you didn't plan for a replacement govenrment once you destroyed the existing government!

Another point that shows he has no idea what he's doing: his entire cabinet is practically his dad's cabinet, he stuck in justice alito, which destroys the balance of the supreme court. He's trying to undo some of the greatest accomplishments of the Warren court, fewer rights for the accused, forcing his belief on abortion onto others, the list goes on and on.


Please give some semblence of a logical arguement you simply say that he's a bad president because people died, like under almost EVERY president. How could Katrina been handled differently? It was not he that mishandled it but FEMA. The bill vetoing is debateable. And what politician isn't a puppet? They all get rid of they're own morals in order to fit the cookie cutter mold of the current party.
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Postby Joe McCarthy on Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:17 am

What kills me about the statement is the SCOTUS balance argument. Since when is it the Presidents' job to keep some kind of balance on the SCOTUS? Roberts and Alito were very well qualified. That's the Presidents job, to nominate qualified judges whose judicial philosphies he agrees with. But I guess you'd want a liberal President to put in a conservative Justice for balance, right cow? Please quit pretending you expect Presidents to nominate people from the other side for the Court, its just stupid sounding.
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Postby Jolly Roger on Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:03 am

Joe McCarthy wrote:What kills me about the statement is the SCOTUS balance argument. Since when is it the Presidents' job to keep some kind of balance on the SCOTUS? Roberts and Alito were very well qualified. That's the Presidents job, to nominate qualified judges whose judicial philosphies he agrees with. But I guess you'd want a liberal President to put in a conservative Justice for balance, right cow? Please quit pretending you expect Presidents to nominate people from the other side for the Court, its just stupid sounding.


Can I give a shout out to Harriet Miers?
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Postby Joe McCarthy on Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:34 am

oh yeah, and it hardly even mattered what FEMA did in Katrina. The state and local governments handled things so badly it was almost like they were trying to make it worse. How in the f*ck does the mayor NOT use the available busses to get people out, or make some effort to ready the Superdome if he's going to use that for a shelter? How does the Governor REFUSE help from the national Guard when Bush calls to tell her hes got a caravan of them at the state border ready to go to the dome with supplies? Lousiana politicians are the most corrupt and least able in the history of the damn planet, if you live there you take your damn chances and it's not GWBs' fault what happens to you.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:11 pm

People need to stop blaming the president for everything, not just bush, but any president. He doesn't have as much power as people think, at least not in ways they can see, he is not personaly responsible for everything that goes on and he does not handle all that stuff personally, he's not supposed to have to.
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Postby boogiesadda on Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:20 pm

sfhbballnut wrote:Bush isn't as bad a president as he's made out to be, there are few who could do as well as he has in the situation.


AS WELL AS HE HAS?????!!!!!! :roll: you mean at creating a civil war in Iraq? Killing thousands of Soldiers and countless Civilians? With the US economy? With Foreign affairs? With sucking Israel's dick and licking their balls? Hurricane Katrina? September 11th when he sat there like a deer in the headlights? Which one?? I am just confused as to what he is doing so well?? Please fill me in...and no I am not a muslim so don't even try some stupid ass remark about muslims.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:39 pm

Blitzkreig wrote:Please give some semblence of a logical arguement you simply say that he's a bad president because people died, like under almost EVERY president.


Its not becasue people died, its becasue he didnt' have a clear strategy going into the war, its fairly obvious to anyone who has a basic grasp of politics that if you get rid of the current government, you need a replacement. He dind't think the war through ahead of time. In fact, more people are probably dieing from the chaos in the streets than from Sadaam's genocide.

He also got rid of Colin Powell, the only person in his cabinet to be hesitant about going into the war because they dindt' have sufficient evidence.

Joe McCarthy wrote:oh yeah, and it hardly even mattered what FEMA did in Katrina. The state and local governments handled things so badly it was almost like they were trying to make it worse.


in other words: since its a futile effort, he might as well just stay out on his ranch clearing brush while theres a national crisis going on instead of trying to get something done, getting on the mayor's back and trying to get everything going smoothly.

He also happneed to appoint the head of FEMA, who he only hired because of personal ties, granted a lot fo presidents grant positions based on personal ties, but usually its some insignificant position liek ambassador to some random country, and if it is a significant position at least make sure they guy is somewhat competent. How can it take 5 hours after a tsunami hits to do anything, espdecially when you can see the tsunami coming for at least a half hour before hand.

Bush may not be directly responsible, but he IS responsible for appointing heads of FEMA who had absolutely no disaster management experience.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:55 pm

Why does the government need to give the public full and detailed reports on why we're going to war and what's going on in the war? Let's broadcast exactly what we're doing so the people will be happy and see how that affects our armed forces. Anybody ever think that there may have been more to the reasoning behind the deployment that the government hasn't let us in on because of how we got the information or how it would affect the troops. If there had been as much publicity in any other war as there is in this one we may never have gotten through any of them because the spineless politicians would be afraid to do anything for feear of losing public approval.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:11 pm

We have the right to be informed, but not until later, especialy in war, the government would be stupid to tell us all about everything they do and so they don't.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:24 pm

And the contraversy over the government tracking and listening on the phones is completely retarded, even if they were doing that, what have you got to hide? They would have no right to use whatever they found unless it was a matter of security. So why do so many people care?
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Postby Joe McCarthy on Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:37 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:
Joe McCarthy wrote:oh yeah, and it hardly even mattered what FEMA did in Katrina. The state and local governments handled things so badly it was almost like they were trying to make it worse.


in other words: since its a futile effort, he might as well just stay out on his ranch clearing brush while theres a national crisis going on instead of trying to get something done, getting on the mayor's back and trying to get everything going smoothly.


This is a republic, not a kingdom. Bush would be wrong to barge in on a city or state government handling a disaster and tell them what to do. He can offer assistance, not take the hell over. By the Mayors own account, Bush met with him and the Governor shortly before the storm and Bush was trying to tell him to get the city evacuated with the busses he had on hand, and the mayor refused. Bush also tried to get the Governor to accept National Guard help, she deffered the question until later. Her office kept putting it off too, even after Guardsmen where waiting at the state border with supplies. You just have to be determined to blame bush for everything if you're gonna to blame him for the inept local government not only doing nothing in spite of prodding from bush but also ignoring advice and offers of help. These were the people the state of Lousiana and the City of new Orleans had elected to handle their local issues and Bush respected that, as he should.

And oh yeah, Colin Powell is the most over-rated public figure in the country.
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Postby Caleb the Cruel on Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:22 pm

where's the moderate option?
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Postby DIRESTRAITS on Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:32 pm

boogiesadda wrote:
sfhbballnut wrote:Bush isn't as bad a president as he's made out to be, there are few who could do as well as he has in the situation.


AS WELL AS HE HAS?????!!!!!! :roll: you mean at creating a civil war in Iraq? Killing thousands of Soldiers and countless Civilians? With the US economy? With Foreign affairs? With sucking Israel's dick and licking their balls? Hurricane Katrina? September 11th when he sat there like a deer in the headlights? Which one?? I am just confused as to what he is doing so well?? Please fill me in...and no I am not a muslim so don't even try some stupid ass remark about muslims.

Anytime you go into a foreign country with no experience governing themselves, youre going to have problems. Bush isnt't the one killing soldiers and countless civilians, the muslim insurgents are. And Bush isn't sucking Israel's dick, they're just the only country in that region that is friendly to us. Using your logic world war two was a 4 year period of FDR blowing Churchill. And what was he supposed to do on Septemper 11th? go tho the nearest phone booth to change and then fly up to stop the planes?!?! :roll: Other than not doing anything to cut spending or stop illeagal immigration, Bush has been a pretty good President
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Postby sfhbballnut on Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:16 pm

well said
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Postby areon on Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:18 pm

Hey dire why don't you read up some books on modern warfare. A prevailant theme is how technology, medicine, and weapons are minimizing our soldier death count while drastically increasing civilian deaths wherever we go. Yes insurgents are deliberately murdering people, but they wouldn't be there if Saddam was still around. Of course there is no way to say which way is better, a totalitarian government where certain groups are targeted if they don't follow the status quo or total anarchy. And people love to say Iraq isn't in a civil war. They just got off a 3 day forced curfew and violence is still going on. To say that we will always make mistakes doesn't give you the right to not make any attempts for strategy. Rumsfeld just resigned because among other things he wouldn't listen to people who didn't have the same views as him.

As a matter of fact we have a better ally in the ME, they're called Turkey. Israel is always trying to act big to intimidate everyone targeting them. This doesn't stop the fighting, and guess what. With the recent actions in Syria they now are appearing to lose their military edge. Boogie is referring to how Bush lays all the blame on Syrian, Palestinian, and any other group before telling the Israeli to back off.

And to anyone who doesn't believe the police entrap innocent people, fucking look in the mirror. If you are white then go read a book on legal proceedings before saying it's alright for the FEDERAL government to wire tap or do surveillance(sp?) on people without a warrant when the SUPREME COURT rules it unconstitutional. They aren't only doing this to catch terrorists, that's just a premise so that they can legitimize it.
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Postby shultz on Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:09 pm

I hate voting... the question is, is there realy anyone to vote for?
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Postby strike wolf on Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:21 pm

Good point but voting is what makes this country great, or at least it used to. With voting on the decline, you are going to see more and more candidates that you hated more in office and more people who didn't vote complaining about who got elected.
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Postby DIRESTRAITS on Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:34 pm

areon wrote:Hey dire why don't you read up some books on modern warfare. A prevailant theme is how technology, medicine, and weapons are minimizing our soldier death count while drastically increasing civilian deaths wherever we go. Yes insurgents are deliberately murdering people, but they wouldn't be there if Saddam was still around. Of course there is no way to say which way is better, a totalitarian government where certain groups are targeted if they don't follow the status quo or total anarchy. And people love to say Iraq isn't in a civil war. They just got off a 3 day forced curfew and violence is still going on. To say that we will always make mistakes doesn't give you the right to not make any attempts for strategy. Rumsfeld just resigned because among other things he wouldn't listen to people who didn't have the same views as him.

As a matter of fact we have a better ally in the ME, they're called Turkey. Israel is always trying to act big to intimidate everyone targeting them. This doesn't stop the fighting, and guess what. With the recent actions in Syria they now are appearing to lose their military edge. Boogie is referring to how Bush lays all the blame on Syrian, Palestinian, and any other group before telling the Israeli to back off.

And to anyone who doesn't believe the police entrap innocent people, fucking look in the mirror. If you are white then go read a book on legal proceedings before saying it's alright for the FEDERAL government to wire tap or do surveillance(sp?) on people without a warrant when the SUPREME COURT rules it unconstitutional. They aren't only doing this to catch terrorists, that's just a premise so that they can legitimize it.

Yuore right. Insurgents wouldn't be killing people if we hadn't gotten rid of Saddam. Saddam would. And Israel is our best friend in the Middle East. Turkey wouldn't let us go into Iraq through their country. The reason the blame for the ME conflict is placed on the Arabic countries is that it is their fault. They are the ones who want to kill every Israeli man, woman, and child. And what do you mean if I am white? are you saying that white people dont understand legal righs? And yes, the wire tapping is to catch terrorists. What else would they be using it for? Personally, Im glad that we are doing it. It helps catch terrorists and prevent another 9/11. You need to think through your arguments a little bit more.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:33 pm

shultz wrote:I hate voting... the question is, is there realy anyone to vote for?


Its more who are you voting against
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Postby sfhbballnut on Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:41 pm

What have you got to hide that anybody would hear on the phone? They don't care about your frivolous problems. If there was anything to hear in your conversations they would have no right to use it. Its like he says they're doing it to catch terrorists.
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