Catholics and condoms

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OnlyAmbrose

Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:03 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
heavycola wrote:Catholicism... treating women like shit since the dark ages™


Who does birth control set free? women
Which half of the population does the Catholic church believe is unworthy of the priesthood? women
Who bears the endless sprogs and is much more at risk of contracting HIV through heterosexual sex? women

This is a church run entirely by men, at every level. Catholic nuns can't even say mass for themselves.

Women's liberation began with the sexual revolution, which began with the contraceptive pill. No wonder the catholics are still dead set against it. Liberated women? Yeah whatever. LOL.


So sex without consequences = freedom?

This is why I'm really starting to despair about the state of the world.



Well there are consequences.. its call having a baby and most women have it happen at some point in their life! You should try it if you havent already, I hear though that there isn't much freedom involved in it.. after all there are the 3am feedings and such where the baby crys you into a guilt mode..

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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:06 pm

What are you talking about? HeavyCola said that the birth control pill is what gave women freedom. The birth control pill allows sex without consequences. Seems to me he's saying that:

sex without consequences = freedom.

I find that disgusting, to be perfectly frank...
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:15 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:What are you talking about? HeavyCola said that the birth control pill is what gave women freedom. The birth control pill allows sex without consequences. Seems to me he's saying that:

sex without consequences = freedom.

I find that disgusting, to be perfectly frank...


LOL, sorry I must have misread it all. Yeah well I'm one of the women who cant take birth control, doctors wont let me due to family back ground of cancer. Fun right?Mostly moms side but its starting to show some on my dads side now too. So I'm being safe and not using that..

No it doesnt = freedom there are still STD's to be had if your with some one who has multiple partners and hasnt told you yet about it.. There are people who cheat in this world not that I like it. I'm sure as all hell against it. If a person and their partner both wanna be the swingging type thats great as long as both are aware of it and understand how to be safe with the 3rd,4th or however many people there are..you know?

So yeah I can see your POV here then..sorry for the misunderstanding

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Postby Stopper on Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:09 pm

Well, I wanted to ask OnlyAmbrose how he can object to the Vatican's shifting of its views on violating intercourse with a rubber johnny, when the outcome may be that many millions of lives can be saved.

I mean, whether you like it or not, the fact of the matter is, that Africans (like everywhere else, I assume) have sex often and widespreadly enough that the spread of AIDS is absolutely horrific, partly because condoms aren't used. Why should it be such a problem that the Catholic Church shift its position in the face of this? After all, it's shifted its position on geocentrism and creationism before, when these positions became untenable.

I think it's coming, because whatever else the Catholic Church is, it ain't stupid/fundamentalist, but the perennial problem is that it won't shift its views quickly enough before it does serious damage.

Oh, and BTW, salvadevinemasse, girl, you stick to your guns. When OnlyAmbrose is talking about sex & consequences, he ain't talking about pregnancy & the myriad other stuff, it's something divine. If you don't believe in divinity, it doesn't apply to you, and you don't have to respect it...
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post in general

Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:14 pm

Well I didnt miss much here did i? 1 question while my dad and I were at wal-mart buying a new microwave because ours was about to catch fire and no longer works! woohoo! (dont you just love microwaves that smell of burnt plastic?)

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Postby Aradhus on Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:28 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:What are you talking about? HeavyCola said that the birth control pill is what gave women freedom. The birth control pill allows sex without consequences. Seems to me he's saying that:

sex without consequences = freedom.

I find that disgusting, to be perfectly frank...


Well, lookie here. Virgin? You know that when a boy and a girl does that nasty dirty stuff it doesn't always lead to.. ohmygod a baby?! How'd that happen!

Are you the victim of child abuse? Because that might explain your bizarre attitude.

OH BY THE WAY, IT'S 2006 NOT 1006.

What next? Women don't have the intelligence to make a rational decision? :roll:
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A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:48 pm

okay-
So why is it that in adam and eve's time it was against the rules for a woman to be on top? Why did lillith truely get banished?

Easy.. She didnt follow the rules..as my b/f said not long ago she was the first offical "bad girl." So that draws me to the only conclusion I can get.. Adam was boring and not a risk taker and therefore in my book a pansy! Hey he sorta reminds me of how accountants are preceived..

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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:09 pm

Well, lookie here. Virgin? You know that when a boy and a girl does that nasty dirty stuff it doesn't always lead to.. ohmygod a baby?! How'd that happen!

Are you the victim of child abuse? Because that might explain your bizarre attitude.


Yes I am a virgin, no I am not a victim of child abuse.

I don't understand what exactly you mean by the bolded text... I don't think a "boy" or a "girl" should be doing "nasty dirty stuff" period. In fact, sex should certainly NEVER be nasty or dirty.
Last edited by OnlyAmbrose on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stopper on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:10 pm

salvadevinemasse wrote:Adam was boring and not a risk taker and therefore in my book a pansy! Hey he sorta reminds me of how accountants are perceived..

Salva-


Erm, I'm an accountant, and let me tell you, lassie, I'm dynamite, so don't you worry about that...
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Stopper

Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:36 pm

Stopper wrote:
salvadevinemasse wrote:Adam was boring and not a risk taker and therefore in my book a pansy! Hey he sorta reminds me of how accountants are perceived..

Salva-


Erm, I'm an accountant, and let me tell you, lassie, I'm dynamite, so don't you worry about that...


LMAO! I knew someone would reply to that.. actually my brother is going to school to become an accountant too.. It was more a jab at him because hes sorta on/off been a jerk to me the past month. Hell Hes 19 and still telling on me! (He told my mom I'd been over my time on the computer last night and tonight I'm sure he'll do it to me again..)

how old are you there stopper? You sound older by saying lassie although I do know its more a europe/U.K. thing saying lassie..

wasn't meaning to offend ya if I did I'm sorry like I said more a jab at my brother!!

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Re: Stopper

Postby Stopper on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:46 pm

salvadevinemasse wrote:
Stopper wrote:
salvadevinemasse wrote:Adam was boring and not a risk taker and therefore in my book a pansy! Hey he sorta reminds me of how accountants are perceived..

Salva-


Erm, I'm an accountant, and let me tell you, lassie, I'm dynamite, so don't you worry about that...


LMAO! I knew someone would reply to that.. actually my brother is going to school to become an accountant too.. It was more a jab at him because hes sorta on/off been a jerk to me the past month. Hell Hes 19 and still telling on me! (He told my mom I'd been over my time on the computer last night and tonight I'm sure he'll do it to me again..)

how old are you there stopper? You sound older by saying lassie although I do know its more a europe/U.K. thing saying lassie..

wasn't meaning to offend ya if I did I'm sorry like I said more a jab at my brother!!

Salva-


I'm just short of 30, which I will never actually become...I'm Scottish, drunk, and in a frisky mood, which is I why I said "lassie", I think, sorry about that...

Tell your brother that being an accountant is a noble profession - people may sneer at us, but everything's got to be accounted for, does it no? So, if he ever has doubts, tell him to hold his calculator up high, and be proud, and say "I am a MAN, for I am an accountant, and the world would grind to a HALT were it no for the likes of me!" Maybe then, he'll have a bit of pride and stop telling on you...

(Oh BTW, I don't know why my profile is showing an American flag, but I've been assured that'll be fixed sometime soon..hmmm)
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Re: Stopper

Postby OnlyAmbrose on Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:56 pm

Stopper wrote:(Oh BTW, I don't know why my profile is showing an American flag, but I've been assured that'll be fixed sometime soon..hmmm)


Enjoy it while you have it! ;)

:lol:
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Re: Stopper

Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:00 pm

Stopper wrote:
salvadevinemasse wrote:
Stopper wrote:
salvadevinemasse wrote:Adam was boring and not a risk taker and therefore in my book a pansy! Hey he sorta reminds me of how accountants are perceived..

Salva-


Erm, I'm an accountant, and let me tell you, lassie, I'm dynamite, so don't you worry about that...


LMAO! I knew someone would reply to that.. actually my brother is going to school to become an accountant too.. It was more a jab at him because hes sorta on/off been a jerk to me the past month. Hell Hes 19 and still telling on me! (He told my mom I'd been over my time on the computer last night and tonight I'm sure he'll do it to me again..)

how old are you there stopper? You sound older by saying lassie although I do know its more a europe/U.K. thing saying lassie..

wasn't meaning to offend ya if I did I'm sorry like I said more a jab at my brother!!

Salva-


I'm just short of 30, which I will never actually become...I'm Scottish, drunk, and in a frisky mood, which is I why I said "lassie", I think, sorry about that...

Tell your brother that being an accountant is a noble profession - people may sneer at us, but everything's got to be accounted for, does it no? So, if he ever has doubts, tell him to hold his calculator up high, and be proud, and say "I am a MAN, for I am an accountant, and the world would grind to a HALT were it no for the likes of me!" Maybe then, he'll have a bit of pride and stop telling on you...

(Oh BTW, I don't know why my profile is showing an American flag, but I've been assured that'll be fixed sometime soon..hmmm)




Dean, (my brother), apparently believes no accountant would use a calculator.. Dont ask why I truely do not see his POV here.. He is very smart, however today, I fail to see it in the way he talks!

Ah, so you are closer to my age then what I was thinking.. I'm 23 in febuary, and my b/f is 21. I dont mind you calling me lass or lassie although I do tend to sometimes picture the barking dog on TV. Frisky
huh? yeah it happens to us all.. But I go to my b/f when it happens!

Scottish huh? what part of it are you from? My dad was stationed there for 2 years when I was younger! It was like his dream to go there, so when it came up mom and I and my 2 brothers stayed back and he went. my parents had just bought a house thats why we stayed back basically. Plus my brothers and I all had really horrible asthma and it was said scotland wasnt the best place for people with bad asthma. me and dean almost died from it a couple times..not sure about my other brother andrew though.

anyways the drunken part.. hmm want my blackberry manischewitz?

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Re: Stopper

Postby Stopper on Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:28 pm

salvadevinemasse wrote:Dean, (my brother), apparently believes no accountant would use a calculator.. Dont ask why I truely do not see his POV here.. He is very smart, however today, I fail to see it in the way he talks!

Ah, so you are closer to my age then what I was thinking.. I'm 23 in febuary, and my b/f is 21. I dont mind you calling me lass or lassie although I do tend to sometimes picture the barking dog on TV. Frisky
huh? yeah it happens to us all.. But I go to my b/f when it happens!

Scottish huh? what part of it are you from? My dad was stationed there for 2 years when I was younger! It was like his dream to go there, so when it came up mom and I and my 2 brothers stayed back and he went. my parents had just bought a house thats why we stayed back basically. Plus my brothers and I all had really horrible asthma and it was said scotland wasnt the best place for people with bad asthma. me and dean almost died from it a couple times..not sure about my other brother andrew though.

anyways the drunken part.. hmm want my blackberry manischewitz?

Salva-


Your brother Dean is half-right about the calculator thing...partly I was joking, but partly I (and everyone I know) still actually uses a calculator every day - computers aren't always the most convenient thing to use...And calculators were still necessary for some of the ICAEW exams when I did them, which was only six or seven years ago....

Dundee is where I come from, but I live in the very north of England now...(most people from Dundee don't live there anymore lol) - your Dad could have been stationed just about anywhere, but Scotland ain't a big place - he can't have been more than 300 miles from where I am now...

Sorry about your asthma thing - but I've got to say, I'm surprised about them saying Scotland was bad for asthma - I suppose the middle of Glasgow wouldn't be great, but most American servicemen would be in the middle of nowhere as far as I know - but, then, what DO I know?

I ran out of John Smith's ages ago, so I could do with the

salvadevinemasse wrote:my blackberry manischewitz


Shame it can't happen :lol:
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Re: Stopper

Postby Stopper on Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:32 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Stopper wrote:(Oh BTW, I don't know why my profile is showing an American flag, but I've been assured that'll be fixed sometime soon..hmmm)


Enjoy it while you have it! ;)

:lol:


I DO...I say the Pledge (by which I mean I read off my can of Pledge furniture polish) every morning, and I said happy thanksgiving to everyone on this forum yesterday....I am an American now, and only a scoundrel could say otherwise...
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Re: Stopper

Postby salvadevinemasse on Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:56 pm

Stopper wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Stopper wrote:(Oh BTW, I don't know why my profile is showing an American flag, but I've been assured that'll be fixed sometime soon..hmmm)


Enjoy it while you have it! ;)

:lol:


I DO...I say the Pledge (by which I mean I read off my can of Pledge furniture polish) every morning, and I said happy thanksgiving to everyone on this forum yesterday....I am an American now, and only a scoundrel could say otherwise...


LMAO! Good one stopper! Yes, only a scoundrel could say otherwise! I'm hoping others notice I've been using the quote feature..which means I'm no longer the wicked witch of the east! YAY! Can I get a woohoo?!
The pledge comment was priceless stopper!

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Postby Paulicus on Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:39 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
To start off on the right foot, yes, I think that contraception is non-negotiably an evil. I hold very deeply rooted beliefs about sexual morality. Before anyone accuses me of being a puritan, I'll say it right now- sex should feel good, sex is a beautiful thing, and most importantly: sex is sacred.


I can assure you that the best way of saving lives in Africa is abstinence. That's how Catholics all over the world do it. That's how I plan to control how many children I have when I get married. That's how I plan to insure that I don't get STDs in a premarital relationship.


You think that contraception is evil.. but where does it say that. And how does it affect the bond between husband a wife?

And yes the only way to stop AIDS is abstinence.. contraceptives are designed to prevent pregnancy.. but the HIV virus can easilly fit between the latex mesh.. something like a fishnet trying to catch a marble.. if my memory seves me right on relative perportions.
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Postby Stopper on Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:15 am

Paulicus wrote:And yes the only way to stop AIDS is abstinence.. contraceptives are designed to prevent pregnancy.. but the HIV virus can easilly fit between the latex mesh.. something like a fishnet trying to catch a marble.. if my memory seves me right on relative perportions.


This is the kind of nonsense that the Catholic Church has also been responsible for spreading - and that is even worse than their advocacy of abstinence.
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Postby heavycola on Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:What are you talking about? HeavyCola said that the birth control pill is what gave women freedom. The birth control pill allows sex without consequences. Seems to me he's saying that:

sex without consequences = freedom.

I find that disgusting, to be perfectly frank...


It gave women more sexual freedom, that's all. men have always slept around leaving a trail of ankle biters in their wake - suddenly women didn't have to get pregnant. It evened out the playing field. The catholic church hates women and this was not, therefore, a tolerable development.

Why do there have to be any consequences? And why is it disgusting when there aren't any?
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Postby mightyal on Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:44 am

Paulicus wrote: And yes the only way to stop AIDS is abstinence.. contraceptives are designed to prevent pregnancy.. but the HIV virus can easilly fit between the latex mesh..

This is absolutely not true.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I can assure you that the best way of saving lives in Africa is abstinence. That's how Catholics all over the world do it.

Throughout history in every country in the world, a sustantial proportion of the population have enjoyed pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Always have, always will. That is reality, it isn't negotiable. For every person who buys into the abstience myth and somehow manages to abstain, many others don't and have unsafe sex due to lack of information/ misinformation. The best way to control the spread of STDs is through realistic and honest sex education. If you want fewer, earlier and safer abortions, empower people with knowledge. Catholics all over the world succumb to their atavistic urges, same as everyone else; they just feel guiltier. The only way to improve the world is to engage with it as it is, not how you wish it was.
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Postby Backglass on Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:23 am

Paulicus wrote:the HIV virus can easilly fit between the latex mesh.. something like a fishnet trying to catch a marble.. if my memory seves me right on relative perportions.


Your memory is seriously flawed.

From the CDC:
"Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing heterosexual sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Research on the effectiveness of latex condoms in preventing heterosexual transmission is both comprehensive and conclusive. The ability of latex condoms to prevent transmission has been scientifically established in laboratory studies as well as in epidemiologic studies of uninfected persons at very high risk of infection because they were involved in sexual relationships with HIV-infected partners. The most recent meta-analysis of epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness was published by Weller and Davis in 2004. This analysis refines and updates their previous report published in 1999. The analysis demonstrates that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection against heterosexual transmission of HIV. It should be noted that condom use cannot provide absolute protection against HIV. The surest way to avoid transmission of HIV is to abstain from sexual intercourse or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected."
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Postby salvadevinemasse on Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:33 am

mightyal wrote:
Paulicus wrote: And yes the only way to stop AIDS is abstinence.. contraceptives are designed to prevent pregnancy.. but the HIV virus can easilly fit between the latex mesh..

This is absolutely not true.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I can assure you that the best way of saving lives in Africa is abstinence. That's how Catholics all over the world do it.

Throughout history in every country in the world, a sustantial proportion of the population have enjoyed pre-marital and extra-marital sex. Always have, always will. That is reality, it isn't negotiable. For every person who buys into the abstience myth and somehow manages to abstain, many others don't and have unsafe sex due to lack of information/ misinformation. The best way to control the spread of STDs is through realistic and honest sex education. If you want fewer, earlier and safer abortions, empower people with knowledge. Catholics all over the world succumb to their atavistic urges, same as everyone else; they just feel guiltier. The only way to improve the world is to engage with it as it is, not how you wish it was.


Your very right. Sex is something that stays on through out the years weither its before or after marriage isnt really the point.. the point is that the latex condom unles broken, because its used wrong, is actually the best way to go, because it wont let in the STD's. (If used right it wont anyways) Now lambskin condoms are a whole different issue... From what I've heard about those they aren't the best..Infact Latex IS the best kind of condom to use. Now as VT Marik said in this thread if only we can send alot of the condoms off to africa because do we really want more people to suffer? I highly doubt we do. I dont care where the church stands I only care where the individuals stand because lets face it today in this world your risking alot not to use a condom when sleeping with someone new.

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