ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

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ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:21 pm

The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS
Last edited by Phatscotty on Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 79 times in total.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Timminz on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:48 pm

I agree. There aren't nearly enough threads about this yet. I fully support the starting of another. Excellent points in your introduction, I might add.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:49 pm

One sentence is perfectly adequate to discuss a simple issue like this.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby KuppenTruppen on Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:11 pm

You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby jsholty4690 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:20 pm

KuppenTruppen wrote:You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.


Finally, a foreigner that understands why many Americans don't want a government run health care system. Our government is inefficient at everything it does, just look at Social Security and Medicare, I know I won't see either of them.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:02 pm

you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:04 pm

Phatscotty wrote:you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.

you know what else else? I think a good amount of people who are from countries with socialized/nationalized/gov't run healthcare, when asked how their system is there, even if it did suck, would not admit it, on camera. Not to mention you have to weigh the biased of how their feeling about America effect the answers to that question when comparing to americas system.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby GabonX on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:29 pm

This is a great thread
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby jsholty4690 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:58 pm

Phatscotty wrote:you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.


I had mine a couple years ago, after I read the book. Welcome to the club.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby GabonX on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:06 am

The answer to 1984 is 1776.

It's a cyclical process. I hope you guys weren't hoping for a comfortable and boring life.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby angola on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:31 am

jsholty4690 wrote:
KuppenTruppen wrote:You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.


Finally, a foreigner that understands why many Americans don't want a government run health care system. Our government is inefficient at everything it does, just look at Social Security and Medicare, I know I won't see either of them.



I don't know if I want a government run health care system, oh wait I do want one.

I have a good job. Been working in one form or another in it for 7 years, yet I still have to pay at least $70 every time I want to go to the doctor. f*ck that noise. Our present health care system is great for the rich, but f*ck the rich. It doesn't do anything for me, in the middle class. And once I retire? I have to pay a jillion dollars to get insured. Bullshit. Give me universal health care.

Something is starting to rise up in America. The poor/middle class are going to lash back against the rich - though all the idiots who are in those two groups who think Sarah Palin would make a good president, are making it harder to start the uprising. Hopefully, they will be purged by something.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby comic boy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:58 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.

you know what else else? I think a good amount of people who are from countries with socialized/nationalized/gov't run healthcare, when asked how their system is there, even if it did suck, would not admit it, on camera. Not to mention you have to weigh the biased of how their feeling about America effect the answers to that question when comparing to americas system.


You do realise that you are talking about almost the entire developed world outside the US yes :D
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Titanic on Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:54 am

comic boy wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.

you know what else else? I think a good amount of people who are from countries with socialized/nationalized/gov't run healthcare, when asked how their system is there, even if it did suck, would not admit it, on camera. Not to mention you have to weigh the biased of how their feeling about America effect the answers to that question when comparing to americas system.


You do realise that you are talking about almost the entire developed world outside the US yes :D


Exactly. Phatscotty you seem paranoid that theres some conspiracy against you. Maybe all of these hundreds of millions who live under universal healthcare actually like their system and prefer it to a profit base system.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:04 am

Phatscotty wrote:The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS


Health care run by private insurance --

Fantastic care for the extremely rich, very good care for the moderate and only moderately wealthy people as long as they stay healthy and keep their job. For the rest -- forget even getting the tests you need to decide if you are seriously ill or not unless and until you are poor enough for Medicaid or old enough for Medicare.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby jsholty4690 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:00 am

angola wrote:
jsholty4690 wrote:
KuppenTruppen wrote:You know what's fun? Complaining about something unrelated to the real problem at hand. I happen to think that free universal healthcare is a great idea. You know what I don't like though? Bureaucracy, which is found EVERYWHERE in your U.S. government. Having Public Healthcare will be no different than preparing your taxes, prosecuting someone, being prosecuted, getting on Welfare, registering to vote, or frankly doing anything else involving the government. Maybe it isn't that public healthcare is bad. Maybe it's just your government.


Finally, a foreigner that understands why many Americans don't want a government run health care system. Our government is inefficient at everything it does, just look at Social Security and Medicare, I know I won't see either of them.


I don't know if I want a government run health care system, oh wait I do want one.

I have a good job. Been working in one form or another in it for 7 years, yet I still have to pay at least $70 every time I want to go to the doctor. f*ck that noise. Our present health care system is great for the rich, but f*ck the rich. It doesn't do anything for me, in the middle class. And once I retire? I have to pay a jillion dollars to get insured. Bullshit. Give me universal health care.

Something is starting to rise up in America. The poor/middle class are going to lash back against the rich - though all the idiots who are in those two groups who think Sarah Palin would make a good president, are making it harder to start the uprising. Hopefully, they will be purged by something.


I don't know way everytime I say I don't want a government run health care, they say I want health care to stay the same. I want it to be affordable to everyone and I think it can be done without the government taking over the system. All the government has to do is regulate the prices and do some tort reforms to make malpractice lawsuits less frequent. That should make Health Care more afordable to all Americans.

Oh, I am in the middle class and I have fine health care, it just seems like you or your employer picked the wrong one.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:01 am

Phatscotty wrote:The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS


PS and let's just ignore the FACT that socialized medicine is not even being considered right now.

The primary fix is to require everyone to carry insurers and insurance companies to cover everyone at reasonable rates.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:09 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS


PS and let's just ignore the FACT that socialized medicine is not even being considered right now.

The primary fix is to require everyone to carry insurers and insurance companies to cover everyone at reasonable rates.


... PLAYER, explain this one to me, please.

Under the header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states: (page 16 of the bill)

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the year the legislation becomes law".

... In simpler English, for the kids from US public schools:

... Health insurance companies cannot legally enroll new members once this bill becomes law.

.... What option is left then, PLAYER, if not the "Public Option"?

... I know you despise insurance companies and I don't entirely disagree with you on that point, but explain to me please how this is supposed to work without becoming "socialized medicine".

...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Night Strike on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:15 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:PS and let's just ignore the FACT that socialized medicine is not even being considered right now.


Except that's what Obama stated it will lead to before he started his presidential campaign. And even more recently prominent democrats like Barney Frank said that he wishes they could go straight to single-payer, but that the public plan would have to be a stop on the way to that. The American people are starting to see through the rhetoric that Obama, Pelosi, and other democrats are spouting regarding the plans and are now seeing the plan for what it is: more government.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:31 pm

... Makes me sick the way our government-run media is nodding along while the Dem leadership states, without the least refernce to fact, that the folks protesting this Orwellian bill are "hired guns" employed by the wicked insurance companies. They've been called "birthers" ("where's the certificate" fanatics) and teabaggers... as if the Tea Parties also were artificial, created protests carried out by backward sister-kissing hicks.

... And people wonder why gun sales are up...

... "You don't like it? Freedom? Liberty? WHO GIVES A F*CK?! IT'S LAW, BITCHES!"

...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:32 pm

Nobunaga wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS


PS and let's just ignore the FACT that socialized medicine is not even being considered right now.

The primary fix is to require everyone to carry insurers and insurance companies to cover everyone at reasonable rates.


... PLAYER, explain this one to me, please.

Under the header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states: (page 16 of the bill)

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of the year the legislation becomes law".

... In simpler English, for the kids from US public schools:

... Health insurance companies cannot legally enroll new members once this bill becomes law.

.... What option is left then, PLAYER, if not the "Public Option"?

... I know you despise insurance companies and I don't entirely disagree with you on that point, but explain to me please how this is supposed to work without becoming "socialized medicine".

...


#-o

Heard of the NIE?
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:33 pm

... No I haven't heard of the NIE.

... Educate me, please.

...
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:49 pm

Er, I'm not sure it's called that in the bill, actually, but the general plan has been referred to as the National Insurance Exchange. I think it's usually referred to as "state-based exchange program" or something along those lines.

What all that business on page 16:

Page 16 wrote:1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER18
MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be26
fore the first day of Y1.


is saying is mostly 2 things.

Individual policies already in effect may continue but may not be altered, and employers have five years to get in compliance with the new regulations.

New policies will still be available, but they will have to be made available through some sort of state-based exchange program. I'm not completely versed on the specifics, but it will at least be a system where the private companies will still be competing against each other as well as a government plan. If you want to change your policy, it will just have to meet the requirements of this exchange system. I suppose the requirements might be debatable, but I don't really know that they will be much different from current regulations.

Anyhow, it's not making private insurance illegal. At most, it's changing the regulations on private insurance, which could, I suppose, be manipulated to be out of reach, but I can't say that's happening.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:51 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:PS and let's just ignore the FACT that socialized medicine is not even being considered right now.


Except that's what Obama stated it will lead to before he started his presidential campaign. And even more recently prominent democrats like Barney Frank said that he wishes they could go straight to single-payer, but that the public plan would have to be a stop on the way to that. The American people are starting to see through the rhetoric that Obama, Pelosi, and other democrats are spouting regarding the plans and are now seeing the plan for what it is: more government.


Ironically, most of the people on this forum have long seen through the rhetoric you spout here and see it for what it really is: more nonsense.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:56 pm

If the free-marketeers are right, the private market should respond to this competitive threat by innovating, by improving, and by winning out. If that happens, then we all win.
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Re: Socialized Healthcare

Postby Neoteny on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:07 pm

And, to address Phatscotty's retarded title, the current bill, even if it were socializing, is not socializing healthcare, it's reforming insurance standards. Don't worry, your doctor is still going to get paid out the ass for poking your prostate you old fogies.

I find it staggering that everyone is freaking out about something that exists only in their minds.
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