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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Fruitcake on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:38 pm

So here's a thing.

I decided some years back to rewrite the standard global medical Policy for the industry I am involved in (a specialist sector of the marine industry).

I realised the Insurance companies had been raking it in for years as the sector I am in tends to have very fit, healthy, younger adults. Even those over 40 are in the top tier of health and fitness.

I hooked up with a couple of Insurance industry friends and we went into retreat on a Mediterranean island for a week or so and unpicked the present Policies available (some ran to 82 pages ffs!)

With their input and advice I then wrote a completely new Policy giving unlimited cover worldwide (including USA) to those who work in this marine sector. We worked out a premium rate (based on the evidence I have from various insurers for claims etc etc).

I then hawked this risk around the insurance markets in London until I found one who was interested in taking on the risk, and the potential book (members - policyholders & premium annually).

We then sat down with this market and went through the Policy I had penned. Once we had got complete agreement, we then issued.

I then sent the message to everyone I could in the sector telling them about this new Policy. Of course, it has flown off the shelf such is the dynamic way it is structured.

In essence, I have given better cover, including cover for pre-ex, standard dental and optical care etc etc. All for a lower premium than has ever been charged.

3 years in, we are showing a very healthy book, with claims rates still in the lower percentile that any underwriter would be pleased to have. In fact, we are now negotiating a profit share with the market as they are making such great numbers.

Why do I mention all this?

A lot of clients who have staff, employ Americans. They are wringing their hands that they have to buy special cover for the Americans at up to 5 times the premium we are charging, for less cover! The net result, American staff numbers globally are getting less on a weekly basis. I did an analysis from June of last year, to June of this. American staff have reduced from around 17% to under 10%

I went to Washington, got the right lawyers and we have presented our case to the bods in Govt there. They would not believe we could provide this kind of cover at the prices shown. They rejected our application to be granted compliance with the ACA. Meanwhile, a USA based competitor has much the same but US centric, for around 7 times the cost and has got ACA compliance, problem is, their market is steadily diminishing as US crew are employed in ever lesser numbers.

Obama care? Nonsense.
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Lootifer on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:33 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Good intentions, poorly thought out (if thought about at all) are the cause of most of the world's evil.

While I don't really care about the American health system (seriously Obamacare or no Obamacare you guys live in a very weird world), but I cant let that statement pass by.

My correction:
Good intentions, that are subsequently butchered and morphed by both the democratic process and the demagogues in power, are the cause of most of the world's poor policy outcomes.
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:48 am

Lootifer wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Good intentions, poorly thought out (if thought about at all) are the cause of most of the world's evil.

While I don't really care about the American health system (seriously Obamacare or no Obamacare you guys live in a very weird world), but I cant let that statement pass by.

My correction:
Good intentions, that are subsequently butchered and morphed by both the democratic process and the demagogues in power, are the cause of most of the world's poor policy outcomes.


I could think of a million instances where one has good intentions and acts on them and ends up doing more harm that involve no democratic process or demagogues in power. The statement I made goes to pushing for/doing something yet having very little to no understanding at all about the issue/product/person/reason. Good example, Obamacare. I am pretty darn sure I heard not only Obama but many who supported Obamacare concerning the number of people who remain uninsured. Yet, covering the number of uninsured people was the battle cry for passing the bill and guilt-libeling opposers of wanting poor and old and sick people and newborn babies to die in the streets. Even those wretched creatures along more than a handful of entire states which have completely given up on Obamacare and as well as hundreds of billions totally wasted are included among the many who now say

Well, we had good intentions


Hey, George W. Bush had good intentions when pre-emptively invading Iraq.

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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby mrswdk on Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:25 am

Good intentions are responsible for more deaths than Christianity, but fewer than Islam.
betiko wrote:When exactly has china not been the king of the world?

思想自由 兼容并包
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:14 am

Phatscotty wrote:


I kinda detect a ... ahem, theme ... in "Prager University's" classes ...

I didn't go to their other departments, but I'm suspecting it's something like this:
    SPORT 102 - Sandy Koufax Studies
    ENGLISH 180 - Did Shakespeare really write in Hebrew?
    MUSIC 120 - How to Build and Burn an Effigy of Richard Wagner
    BIOLOGY 120 - Arguments For And Against Circumcision
    MATH 101 - Israel Invented Algebra in 1948
    MATH 102 - Algebra: a Gay Black Man in a Wheelchair Admits It Did Not Exist Before 1948
    MATH 103 - Algebra: a Communist Mexican Buddhist Also Admits It Did Not Exist Before 1948
    MATH 104 - Algebra: With all the evidence it didn't exist before 1948, why are people still lying?
    PSYCH 101 - Survey of Dr Ruth's Research with All References to Sex Removed
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:09 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:There was a Jewish law that dictated pi=22/7, or so I heard from somebody who read it on the internet or something (I literally "learned" that in public school, but have yet to find a source)

I think I need to attend Prager to learn more.


that's close enough for me.
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:19 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:


I kinda detect a ... ahem, theme ... in "Prager University's" classes ...

I didn't go to their other departments, but I'm suspecting it's something like this:
    SPORT 102 - Sandy Koufax Studies
    ENGLISH 180 - Did Shakespeare really write in Hebrew?
    MUSIC 120 - How to Build and Burn an Effigy of Richard Wagner
    BIOLOGY 120 - Arguments For And Against Circumcision
    MATH 101 - Israel Invented Algebra in 1948
    MATH 102 - Algebra: a Gay Black Man in a Wheelchair Admits It Did Not Exist Before 1948
    MATH 103 - Algebra: a Communist Mexican Buddhist Also Admits It Did Not Exist Before 1948
    MATH 104 - Algebra: With all the evidence it didn't exist before 1948, why are people still lying?
    PSYCH 101 - Survey of Dr Ruth's Research with All References to Sex Removed


LULZ!

or

1 - problems stemming from society vs. problem stemming from ourselves
2 - common sense
3 - non-importance of race
4 - good intentions and the normal people who may be good people but believe in and/or practice bad ideas, or actions vs. motives
5 - higher powers
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:22 am

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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:40 pm

I hear reports that many states have only a single option from which citizens may choose health care. It seems in many states every health provider option has jumped ship or closed shop for good. Let's hear some reports from posters on their states status of the wonderful options they can 'choose' from
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:15 pm

Im not sure if it was ACA related or not, but the deductible on my company insurance just went up +/- x4 ($750 to $2500), also the cost to have your family enrolled doubled. If it was an effect of the ACA, it kind of takes away some of the affordable part.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby warmonger1981 on Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:27 am

I hear it's a system to put smaller insurance company out of business as only the largest health care companies can compete.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:46 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:I hear it's a system to put smaller insurance company out of business as only the largest health care companies can compete.


Surely the basic idea of insurance is a large pool of people betting, hoping against being unlucky? I'm not sure I'm with you on the "oh, won't you think of the little insurance companies" front.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:33 pm

I'm more worried about monopoly instead of the little guy.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Symmetry on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:42 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:I'm more worried about monopoly instead of the little guy.


An interesting shift. What concerns you now?
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:54 pm

Many choices for all would be better than one choice for all. Competition is far better than a dictator.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Symmetry on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:01 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Many choices for all would be better than one choice for all. Competition is far better than a dictator.


Is that really how you see it? I'd be interested in a more nuanced take, if that's OK.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:26 am

Symmetry wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:Many choices for all would be better than one choice for all. Competition is far better than a dictator.


Is that really how you see it? I'd be interested in a more nuanced take, if that's OK.


https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Econo ... 0538453052
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Re: ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

Postby Lootifer on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:39 pm

Phatscotty wrote:


I would replace the entire content of that clip with "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman (Uh oh, inb4 Saxi...)
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby mookiemcgee on Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:08 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I'm more worried about monopoly instead of the little guy.


If you compare a state run monoploy vs 3-4 companies who all price fix together, and then make huge profits we all pay for anyway.... well the only difference is the 15-150% extra we all pay so that those companies can make profit. So you could argue the American system is better for the economy and for tax revenue... but its far far worse from a 'how much health care you get per dollar spent' for the people who have to buy the health insurance. Also a single payer system, does not exclude the possibility that some folks could pay more for faster/better service if its that important a doctor see them today instead of tomorrow. It would just mean the profit that is created in the system goes to hospitals and doctors instead of insurance companies. Not sure why Americans think that is such a bad thing.

I mean... are public schools a bad thing? would it be better if they were all for profit companies?
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby warmonger1981 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:21 am

Two sides of the coin need to be looked at. For profit or for healthcare. There is always an illusion of choice. Look at the US entertainment industry ran by 6 corporation. I like small community style organization. Think local not global. Plus insurance companies cannot cross state lines. So in effect they create monopolies within the states. Not saying I'm right but a discussion is always welcomed as I get more educated by the dialogue.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby tzor on Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:07 am

mookiemcgee wrote:I mean... are public schools a bad thing? would it be better if they were all for profit companies?


"Public" schools have a lot of complex problems with them. In general, yes they are a bad thing. They are the perfect example of the problems with the bureaucratic system. Consider "spending" for example. Most of my local school's budget is mandated by the state, when there is a budget vote, three quarters of the budget is not really up for discussion, it's generally vote for the budget or loose either sports, the arts or both. In my town it's even more annoying because State regulations require the town to collect the school taxes, so they always look like the bad guys for the high school property taxes (determined by the school board based on those budgets which are mostly fixed expenses required by the state).

On the other hand, the problem with "for profit companies" is that to get the capital they need, they need investors. The "profit" in a for profit is supposed to go to the investors. Can you get people in "invest" in our children given that the "profit" is merely taking the money from the parents?

Totally ignored is the non profit school, which is still expensive since non profit does not mean your workers are all volunteers. Can this work? In some ways it can, especially in the long run as graduates get good jobs and start to look back at the institute that educated them. I've see this first hand with a Catholic High School where donations from alumni are what you might expect from a college, not a high school. Buildings are named after patrons, and so forth.

Even competition in public schools can be a good thing. The state recently put a number of local schools on the "bad" list, students from the bad list have the option to transfer to a nearby school not on the bad list. Everyone is up in arms, but hopefully it might encourage the bad schools to actually improve.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby mookiemcgee on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:41 pm

tzor wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:I mean... are public schools a bad thing? would it be better if they were all for profit companies?


"Public" schools have a lot of complex problems with them. In general, yes they are a bad thing. They are the perfect example of the problems with the bureaucratic system. Consider "spending" for example. Most of my local school's budget is mandated by the state, when there is a budget vote, three quarters of the budget is not really up for discussion, it's generally vote for the budget or loose either sports, the arts or both. In my town it's even more annoying because State regulations require the town to collect the school taxes, so they always look like the bad guys for the high school property taxes (determined by the school board based on those budgets which are mostly fixed expenses required by the state).

On the other hand, the problem with "for profit companies" is that to get the capital they need, they need investors. The "profit" in a for profit is supposed to go to the investors. Can you get people in "invest" in our children given that the "profit" is merely taking the money from the parents?

Totally ignored is the non profit school, which is still expensive since non profit does not mean your workers are all volunteers. Can this work? In some ways it can, especially in the long run as graduates get good jobs and start to look back at the institute that educated them. I've see this first hand with a Catholic High School where donations from alumni are what you might expect from a college, not a high school. Buildings are named after patrons, and so forth.

Even competition in public schools can be a good thing. The state recently put a number of local schools on the "bad" list, students from the bad list have the option to transfer to a nearby school not on the bad list. Everyone is up in arms, but hopefully it might encourage the bad schools to actually improve.



Not all for profit schools are good, not all non-profit schools are either. If you want to take this on at the college level, and say that for profit schools are a good thing I would give you a two word answer... Trump University.
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Re: ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

Postby Lootifer on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:29 pm

Profit/non-profit is answering the wrong question when it comes to education.

The real issue is price-quality differentiation, and the societal downside associated with it. What I mean by this is: if you can pay for a better education* then you are making a barrier to upwards and downwards mobility, which leads to greater tension/unhappiness (and likely greater gap between wealthy and non-wealthy).

Conversely if you don't have any incentive for quality then your education outcomes will be poor and you will likely have a very inefficient system.

How to fix it? Well if you could succinctly solve this riddle then you are unlikely to be talking about it on a backwater forum board...

* only primary and secondary education is included here; I have a very different view on tertiary (college/university) education.
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
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