ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

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Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Symmetry on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:14 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Except now we can't opt out of THIS program, so "always" isn't an accurate term.


You can always move to a country without nationalised healthcare.


Why would I move to a country that has an even worse system? And did you have fun spam quoting my post?


Apologies for that double post. I wasn't spamming you.

Anyway... are you telling me that countries without nationalised healthcare are worse than those with?
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby john9blue on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:24 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Night Strike wrote:...Who are you to demand that people have the kind of <insert lifestyle> that YOU deem appropriate? ...

This phrase stuck out to me, especially with other views on other topics.


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=D>

although, i don't think NS is necessarily "demanding" that people conform to his views (on homosexuality, i assume)... i think he just heavily disapproves of those who don't, lol
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Nobunaga on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:18 pm

The train, she's a comin'.

http://www.atr.org/obamacares-tax-hike- ... reck-a7587

Sad to read.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Lootifer on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Nobunaga wrote:The train, she's a comin'.

http://www.atr.org/obamacares-tax-hike- ... reck-a7587

Sad to read.

Good lord you tax system is complicated (or more accurately, good lord I cannot be fucked thinking about the implications of the various pieces of that article since it applies to a tax system of a country I dont live in). Care to give a neutral-as-you-possibly-can run down of that article?
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:42 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:The train, she's a comin'.

http://www.atr.org/obamacares-tax-hike- ... reck-a7587

Sad to read.

Good lord you tax system is complicated (or more accurately, good lord I cannot be fucked thinking about the implications of the various pieces of that article since it applies to a tax system of a country I dont live in). Care to give a neutral-as-you-possibly-can run down of that article?


It sure is complicated. I hope you can see just a little bit better where I and other like myself have been coming from. Most of us here in the USA have to pay someone else to do our taxes for us. Even the professionals have trouble sometimes.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:08 pm

This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Woodruff on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:15 pm

Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?


Did Obama actually say they were irrelevant? I find that unlikely, but would be interested if it were true.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:41 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?


Did Obama actually say they were irrelevant? I find that unlikely, but would be interested if it were true.


I added the "irrelevant" term since that's the implication when he says that the problems aren't very widespread. Even though by his own numbers they're nearly as much of the population as those who didn't have health insurance.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 01, 2013 12:14 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?


Did Obama actually say they were irrelevant? I find that unlikely, but would be interested if it were true.


I added the "irrelevant" term since that's the implication when he says that the problems aren't very widespread. Even though by his own numbers they're nearly as much of the population as those who didn't have health insurance.


Saying that a thing is small in number is not at all the same as saying that a thing is irrelevant. You seem to be having a lot of definatory issues today, Night Strike.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Wed May 01, 2013 12:33 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?


Did Obama actually say they were irrelevant? I find that unlikely, but would be interested if it were true.


I added the "irrelevant" term since that's the implication when he says that the problems aren't very widespread. Even though by his own numbers they're nearly as much of the population as those who didn't have health insurance.


Saying that a thing is small in number is not at all the same as saying that a thing is irrelevant. You seem to be having a lot of definatory issues today, Night Strike.


Obamacare was passed based on a small number of people, based on Obama's own definition of small. Why did we have to pass a trillion dollar tax and spend package for that small number of people yet ignore the same amount of people who are having trouble with the law?
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby comic boy on Wed May 01, 2013 1:19 pm

Night Strike
Do you truly believe that all numbers and percentages have the same weighting , do you seriously equate implementation problems with long term issues. I dont believe that you are so stupid as to believe such so Im puzzled as to why you would make such a ridiculous point, are you getting desperate ?
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 01, 2013 7:08 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?


Did Obama actually say they were irrelevant? I find that unlikely, but would be interested if it were true.


I added the "irrelevant" term since that's the implication when he says that the problems aren't very widespread. Even though by his own numbers they're nearly as much of the population as those who didn't have health insurance.


Saying that a thing is small in number is not at all the same as saying that a thing is irrelevant. You seem to be having a lot of definatory issues today, Night Strike.


Obamacare was passed based on a small number of people, based on Obama's own definition of small. Why did we have to pass a trillion dollar tax and spend package for that small number of people yet ignore the same amount of people who are having trouble with the law?


Because our government is run by a bunch of dirtbags who are only interested in lining their own pockets. Is this a revelation to you, Night Strike? There really are very few members of Congress that deserve much respect at all, though there are a few.

However, I don't in the least believe that Obamacare was passed "based on a small number of people".
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby john9blue on Wed May 01, 2013 8:43 pm

Woodruff wrote:You seem to be having a lot of definatory issues today, Night Strike.


but at least he doesn't make up words... not that there's anything wrong with that
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Thu May 02, 2013 1:32 am

Weren't we told Obamacare was fully funded when it passed? And I don't remember any bills signed into law that actually cut off any funding to implementing Obamacare.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/297333-reid-says-more-funding-is-needed-to-prevent-healthcare-law-from-becoming-a-train-wreck
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 03, 2013 2:28 pm

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Thanks, Star Trek: TOS Obamacare.


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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Neoteny on Sat May 04, 2013 8:13 am

Who are the mooks that are just now seeing what's in it? It's been online for, like, three years.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat May 04, 2013 1:15 pm

Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?

Do you ever think beyond the distorted sources you apparently consider as the only "truth"?

The information HAS been out there, but if , lik eyou, they only pay attention to the right wing rhetoric then, no, you won't find anything... THOSE folks, aka the folks you seem to listen to , don't want anyone to know what is in the healthcare reform act, because if people really paid attention, they might not be so opposed.

THAT is the real truth, not the garbage you keep putting forward without bothering to verify.

Things they don't want you to pay attention to:
Insurance companies can no longer exclude children with pre-existing conditions. In the past, parents with disabled kids had to buy BOTH family coverage for the rest of the family AND either a very expensive policy for the disabled child, have that child go without insurance OR have that child be supported by tax payers.

Parents can ALREADY keep their adult children, up to age 26, on their family policies.

Similarly, in 2014, adults will not be excluded based on pre-existing conditions or because a "lifetime limit" for coverage was reached.

ALL of that is being paid for right now, but being paid for with tax dollars, often in the most expensive ways -- emergency rooms and so forth.

People will be encouraged to get diagnostic tests early. That will ultimately lower costs.

Most of those costs above are not true increases, rather they are transfers of payment from public tax dollars to private insurance -- a move you have touted as desirable in the past. (but note, I am among those who have wanted a fully nationalized system all along).


Other stuff you got wrong:
The claim that "Obama said everyone can keep their insurance" -- what he actually said was that there is nothing in the law preventing anyone who has insurance that meets basic criteria from keeping it.

The claim that "it won't cost more" -- he actually said that the overwhelming majority of people making less than 25O thousand will see no change. A few people, those getting what are now being called "cadillac policies" (those with NO copayments, few or no penalties for thingsl ike no show appointments, covering a lot of things most people might consider optional like elective plastic surgery-- NOT reconstructive surgery to correct abnormalities or injury, but things like "nose jobs", etc.). There was also a small group of tohers that were always identified as likely to wind up paying more, but getting into those details is apparently "too complicated" -- and too truthful.

I could go on, but you tend to ignore real criticisms of what you put forward as it is.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Sun May 05, 2013 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat May 04, 2013 1:16 pm

Oh, yeah... and along with all your criticisms, how about telling us how you would actually do things better? Because so far, nothing you have put forward really will work.

Moving policies across state lines, for example, just means employers get to choose even poorer coverage. it is cutting costs today so everyone else can pay more later when the insurance coverage fails to really pay for needed services.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Sat May 04, 2013 1:45 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?

Do you ever think beyond the distorted sources you apparently consider as the only "truth"?


What did I distort in that post? Obama made the claim about the percentage of people having problems with the law. I pointed out that the law was passed because the same percentage of people did not have health insurance. Where is the inaccuracy or distortion?

PLAYER57832 wrote:The information HAS been out there, but if , lik eyou, they only pay attention to the right wing rhetoric then, no, you won't find anything... THOSE folks, aka the folks you seem to listen to , don't want anyone to know what is in the healthcare reform act, because if people really paid attention, they might not be so opposed.


Why wouldn't we want people to know about the massive amounts of taxes and control the federal government has enacted and is forcing upon the American people? It's the Democrats who refused to share what was in it before passing it.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Other stuff you got wrong:
The claim that "Obama said everyone can keep their insurance" -- what he actually said was that there is nothing in the law preventing anyone who has insurance that meets basic criteria from keeping it.

The claim that "it won't cost more" -- he actually said that the overwhelming majority of people making less than 25O thousand will see no change. A few people, those getting what are now being called "cadillac policies" (those with NO copayments, few or no penalties for thingsl ike no show appointments, covering a lot of things most people might consider optional like elective plastic surgery-- NOT reconstructive surgery to correct abnormalities or injury, but things like "nose jobs", etc.). There was also a small group of tohers that were always identified as likely to wind up paying more, but getting into those details is apparently "too complicated" -- and too truthful.

I could go on, but you tend to ignore real criticisms of what you put forward as it is.


What part of "If you like your health insurance, you can keep it under this law" do you not understand? It's plain language that Obama repeated profusely. Yet it has been a lie. Why can't you acknowledge that instead of worshipping big government?

By the way, why do you want to punish those people who have great insurance plans? I thought you wanted to lower costs and provide great health care. I guess all you truly want is for everyone to have the exact same mediocre government provided plan?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh, yeah... and along with all your criticisms, how about telling us how you would actually do things better? Because so far, nothing you have put forward really will work.


I would make it harder to sue for medical malpractice so that dozens of unnecessary tests aren't performed. I would require that the prices for procedures all be publicly listed and available both online and in service providers. I would remove the employer-based system we have in favor of individuals making their own decisions. And then I would allow individuals to choose their plans based on any plan offered in the country instead of the artificial limits of "minimum" coverage imposed by each state.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?

Do you ever think beyond the distorted sources you apparently consider as the only "truth"?


What did I distort in that post?


Just for starters? The claim that Obama intimated that a particular group of people was irrelevant.

Night Strike wrote:I would make it harder to sue for medical malpractice so that dozens of unnecessary tests aren't performed.


That is an excellent idea. That way, doctor's won't have to worry about being competent or fucking up people's lives.

Does lawsuit reform need to happen? Certainly, though largely that problem lies in the area of judgements, NOT in the area of "can I sue".
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Night Strike on Sat May 04, 2013 3:05 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:This morning during his press conference, Obama claimed the number of Americans that are having problems with the implementation of Obamacare is very small.....approximately 10-15% of the country. Yet, the entire Obamacare law was passed specifically because of 10-15% of the country not having health insurance. So if the first group is irrelevant due to their size, why isn't the latter group?

Do you ever think beyond the distorted sources you apparently consider as the only "truth"?


What did I distort in that post?


Just for starters? The claim that Obama intimated that a particular group of people was irrelevant.


Well he implied that the problems were small and inconsequential to the overall law.

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:I would make it harder to sue for medical malpractice so that dozens of unnecessary tests aren't performed.


That is an excellent idea. That way, doctor's won't have to worry about being competent or fucking up people's lives.

Does lawsuit reform need to happen? Certainly, though largely that problem lies in the area of judgements, NOT in the area of "can I sue".


Harder =/= impossible. Please learn the difference. Doctors that perform incorrect procedures or on the wrong side of the body should definitely be sued. Doctors who perform the 3 most useful tests instead of all 12 tests available should not be sued.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 04, 2013 4:20 pm

Neoteny wrote:Who are the mooks that are just now seeing what's in it? It's been online for, like, three years.



Oh, IT'S ONLINE!!!! GREAT!!! No excuses for not knowing what's in it now!!!

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Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat May 04, 2013 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat May 04, 2013 4:25 pm

Phattscotty, I liked what your post said before you edited it:

"Right, like as if being online helps."

I think this topic is excellent example of such a notion!


--Andy
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 04, 2013 4:26 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Phattscotty, I liked what your post said before you edited it:

"Right, like as if being online helps."

I think this topic is excellent example of such a notion!


--Andy


...Then start reading Obamacare on page 1, let us know what you find out. It's online...so.....piece of cake!
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: ObamaCare: Now we can see what's in it

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat May 04, 2013 4:31 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:Phattscotty, I liked what your post said before you edited it:

"Right, like as if being online helps."

I think this topic is excellent example of such a notion!


--Andy


...Then start reading Obamacare on page 1, let us know what you find out. It's online...so.....piece of cake!


PS, I am not sure what you are getting at. You're missing my point, silly.

Edit: Here, let me explain it with the use of the following video:




--Andy
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