Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

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Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby DogDoc on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:26 pm

In honor of the Bill of Rights being adopted by Congress on this date in 1791, I thought I'd present an exercise I went through during my high school Civics class so many years ago (and I remember to this day).

An advanced, Alien race lands on Earth and takes over the United States. But to prove their benevolence and good intentions, they tell the people that they will let them keep 5 of their 10 Bill of Rights. Which ones do you choose and why?

For your reference, the Bill of Rights are listed below:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:44 pm

Amendment 1, Amendment 4, Amendment 5, Amendment 6, Amendment 9

Mainly cus all of these woudl prevent someone from siezing power legally, a la Hitler. The other ones have become obsolete, we aren't in dire need of firearms to protect ourselves, and we really don't need to worry about someone wackjob making soldiers live with us, even if we did, we would be protected form them doing anything by the remaining amendments.
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Postby P Gizzle on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:46 pm

1, 2, 4, 5, 9


because, 1, 4, 5, 9 would protect us and our rights, and 2, if the aliens get out of hand, we blow them away and call it the American Revolution II.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:49 pm

I disagree, i'm pretty sure the aliens woudl be suficiently advanced enough to give their infantry armor against primitive physical projectiles, and if we were staging a resistance we could do it democartically and the aliens couldn't sieze us because of the search and siezure clauses. If they broke the amendments we'd break them too and smuggle firearms.
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Postby P Gizzle on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:51 pm

well, im assuming that we make them give us some of their guns.
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Postby DogDoc on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:52 pm

Interesting so far. I'll refrain from answering the question until I see a few more. To my friends "across the pond," please feel free to join in. Surely you have some sort of similar set of "rights"?
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Postby P Gizzle on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:53 pm

the British Bill of Rights. it was what we based ours off of. i don't think it was called that though
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Postby Hoff on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:53 pm

if this question was meant to find out which rights we find most important today, you should revise the alien thing. Because today, we don't really need to have arms, but if aliens came, f*ck i would want all the guns i can. So yeah.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:54 pm

England: no just series of court precedents, and political tradition keeping things in line (its worked pretty well since they're the worlds oldest democracy), the rest of our european friends that are democartic have a written constitution (even the undemocratic ones do too, yeah i'm talking to you russia!)
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Postby mightyal on Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm

DogDoc wrote:Interesting so far. I'll refrain from answering the question until I see a few more. To my friends "across the pond," please feel free to join in. Surely you have some sort of similar set of "rights"?
I hope that's deliberate.
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Postby DogDoc on Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:34 pm

mightyal wrote:
DogDoc wrote:Interesting so far. I'll refrain from answering the question until I see a few more. To my friends "across the pond," please feel free to join in. Surely you have some sort of similar set of "rights"?
I hope that's deliberate.


Yes. Kind of a trick question here and I'll explain why after seeing a few more responses.
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby Evil Semp on Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:05 pm

DogDoc wrote:
An advanced, Alien race lands on Earth and takes over the United States. But to prove their benevolence and good intentions, they tell the people that they will let them keep 5 of their 10 Bill of Rights. Which ones do you choose and why?


I would keep Amendment 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10.

Since there is only ONEBill of Rights I would keep it. You didn't ask what amendment we would give up, and you did say it was a trick question.
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:25 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
DogDoc wrote:
An advanced, Alien race lands on Earth and takes over the United States. But to prove their benevolence and good intentions, they tell the people that they will let them keep 5 of their 10 Bill of Rights. Which ones do you choose and why?


I would keep Amendment 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10.

Since there is only ONEBill of Rights I would keep it. You didn't ask what amendment we would give up, and you did say it was a trick question.


yes, wellt hat would make for a much less interesting philosophical discussion.

ALso, if the aliens were to repress us they woudl need to break an amendment in the bill of rights, so stop saying you need guns to defend against the aliens!!! Also, this jsut means you MUST be allowed to have guns, they can still say you can have guns, but as a bill or something with less wieght.
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Postby Evil Semp on Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:55 pm

Seeing how aliens took over the country and letting you choose which rights you will lose shows that you will give in to them. what would stop them from then asking which 2 of the 5 remaining rights do you want to keep until you have given up all your rights.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:58 pm

think of it this way, they're being nice and asking you which 5 you woudl like to add, not which five you'd liek to take away!

also, we can asafely assume this is a supplement to their current consitutional rules which will probably also apply to us if they're the invading forces
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Postby Evil Semp on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:15 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:think of it this way, they're being nice and asking you which 5 you woudl like to add, not which five you'd liek to take away!

also, we can asafely assume this is a supplement to their current consitutional rules which will probably also apply to us if they're the invading forces



How could I think "they're being nice" if they took over our country.

And if we already have 10 amendments and they will let us keep 5 in my mind it means they are taking away 5.

How can we "safely assume" anything if they took over our country in any way other than a legal election?
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Postby cowshrptrn on Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:39 pm

i tihnk we can safely assume that this situation was merely a chance to open up discussion on which amendments in the bill of rights are most important and any extraneous interpretations are merely obnoxious spam :wink:
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Postby strike wolf on Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:32 am

Umm...hmmm...I don't know they are all pretty important.
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:59 am

There you go assuming again. {No I won't do the Odd couple skit about assuming}

You don't like my response so it is considered spamming. I don't call a one sided conversation a discussion.

I interpret the as a chance for discussion on which amendment, I interpet it as our government was overthrown, and they are giving us our choice of which rights we are willing to forfiet.

I imagine it as my mother in law moving in and telling me I can either watch the Bears game or go on my computer. I say I won't choose one of the two I choose both.

So go ahead and talk down to me some more if you like, but I won't back down.

And please don't use so many big words, I don't like to use the dictionary.
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:11 am

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Freedom of religion, speech, press, peaceful assembly and govornment petition.... yeah these are important.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Right to bear arms.. to protect ourselves from the govornment.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The govornment searching and seizing at will is a bad idea.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


"nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" yeah, its a keeper.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

speedy/public trial, impartial jury and counsel for his defence... could you imagine life without it?


I didn't want to give up the 8th but I had to cut it down to 5. :(
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby reverend_kyle on Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:12 am

jay_a2j wrote:

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The govornment searching and seizing at will is a bad idea.


PATRIOT ACT anyone?
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:08 am

reverend_kyle wrote:Happy Chanukkah Christians.





I love Chanukkah too! They are my Jewsish brothers. :wink:
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby DogDoc on Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:38 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
DogDoc wrote:
An advanced, Alien race lands on Earth and takes over the United States. But to prove their benevolence and good intentions, they tell the people that they will let them keep 5 of their 10 Bill of Rights. Which ones do you choose and why?


I would keep Amendment 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10.

Since there is only ONEBill of Rights I would keep it. You didn't ask what amendment we would give up, and you did say it was a trick question.


Ding Ding Ding Ding We have a WINNER.

The point of the exercise in my Civics class was that ALL of them are important and you shouldn't willingly give up ANY of them, particularly the 2nd Amendment (how else would you be able to try to fight the aliens?). If you were to willing to give up some rights it would lead to losing ALL rights.

This exercise really made a huge impact on me (it must have as I remember it nearly 30 years later) because for the first time in my life, I actually understood what our Constitution and the Bill of Rights was all about and how so very precious they are.
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:44 pm

And to think that my opinion was considered
cowshrptrn wrote:extraneous interpretations are merely obnoxious spam :wink:
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Re: Bill of Rights - Which Would You Give Up?

Postby reverend_kyle on Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:24 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
reverend_kyle wrote:Happy Chanukkah Christians.





I love Chanukkah too! They are my Jewsish brothers. :wink:



so then you wouldn't have a problem displaying a menorah everywhere?


That Christmas Tree situation in Tacoma is B.S. all the poor guy wanted was a menorah up too.. and they turned him into the grinch who made them take away the Christmas trees...

Might I add christmas trees have nothing to do with jesus.
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