Jules Verne Contest [Complete]

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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby chapcrap on Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:10 pm

Dukasaur wrote:My friends, we have to make some decisions.

This is an epic-scale tournament, involving 27 maps, not counting the finales, and played with a complicated bonus structure and scoring system, and with flat rate spoils to make players pay attention to the map bonuses instead of just going for escalating kills. Even if it had been restricted to premium players only, it might easily have taken a year to complete, but the situation is hugely exacerbated by the fact that the original TO (DJENRE) recruited many freemium players, and with your slot restrictions we are moving at a snail's pace, and might take three years to finish it at the current rate.

That's if we can even keep the players for that long. Player satisfaction is low; there are many complaints and several players who have quit. This is a tournament that should never have accepted freemium players. If I had understood how badly designed this tournament was, I would never have agreed to help run it, but I was very new to the tournament world when DJENRE originally asked me and I didn't see the design flaws in it. All I saw at the time was that it was a beautiful idea. Beautiful it is, but hopelessly impractical. Anyway, what's done is done, I volunteered, and now that DJENRE has vanished I'm stuck with the thing.

Something needs to be done. I'm spending a ridiculous time on this tournament and getting bad results. There are two games which will auto-delete soon, because three freemiums cannot free up a slot to join them. Three other freemiums are stuck in those games and might pull out of them before the first three get in.

Like I said, a tourney this big and complex should never have accepted freemiums, but it did, and they/you are more than 25% of the total players, some of them quite high on the scoreboard. I certainly can't retroactively kick them out, but going on like this is turning my last few hairs gray. I even debated buying premium for everyone myself, but there are fourteen freemiums left, and I just can't afford that kind of money.

So what can be done? I've put together some ideas. I want to know what everybody thinks of them. Please look at the points below and comment on any that you think are viable, and any that you absolutely would not accept.

1. Should I short-turn the tournament? Just arbitrarily cut it off and announce a winner after the current round is over? Basically scrap about 80% of the tournament and calculate results after what we have completed?
And if we do that, should we a) attempt to play the finales, or b) scrap the finales also?

2. Should I start ruthlessly cutting anyone who can't make their invite, even though it seems very unfair? (And it raises a whole new nightmare, adjusting the scoring, because the whole score system was based on 8-player games. I've already had to make some 7-player games, but if I start ruthlessly cutting people I may end up with 6- or even 5-player games. No idea how to address the scoring if that happens.)

3. Here's an idea I had: allow proxy players. Basically the freemiums that can't make an invite because of slot limitations could invite a premium proxy to play in their place. The proxies wouldn't be eligible to score any points, but they would be able to fulfil your spot and prevent you from getting kicked out because you don't have a free slot. Actually, the more I think about it, the better this idea looks to me.

4. Should we stop trying to play several maps at once? Just play one map at a time and accept that the tournament might take four or five years to finish? I mean, it's not like CC is going to vanish.

5. Anything and everything. I'm open to suggestions. Actually, I'm desperate... :(

6. Of course, if there was somebody in the tournament who is wealthy enough to gift premium to fourteen players, that would solve all our problems...:-)

First of all, it doesn't matter to me what decision is reached.

Second, making the tournament take longer than another year probably should out of the question. This has already been going a while and many more players could be out by then.

Third, if this tournament can't be run with freemiums, then you must either cut them or use proxies. It seems to me like it can't be run properly with freemiums for 2 reasons. The first is that they can't handle the game load with only 4 slots available. The second is that usually a premium player will be more committed to CC and sticking around while a freemium player may not stick around that long. And if we've got 14 freemium players still left (which is amazing to me that they have stuck around this long) there is a pretty good chance that they will leave before the tournament is completed anyway.

The biggest problem with proxies is not only finding them, but how would you decide a who gets a medal if the proxy play 40% and the freemium players plays 60%? And if the freemium is allowed to use a proxy, he might use them to help play maps that he is not as good at, giving a definite advantage in this format.

I think my solution would be to shorten the tournament some and possibly cut the freemium list. If they aren't leaving spots open for the tournament, then they are already not committed to it. I can't blame them for that though. I wouldn't want to be waiting around for games in this tournament and not being able to play anything else.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Pandemonium on Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:34 pm

It's a messy situation for sure, Dukasaur has the biggest headaches... The idea was beautiful... implementation - not so much...

1 - I kinda like 1, but it's probably just because I'm No.1 at the moment :) - also, VicFontaine has good ideas ("SEVERAL tournaments that build as a story: ACT 1, ACT 2, ACT 3. I.e.")

2 - I don't mind you implementing this, but in the long run, it might (it probably will) make more problems...

3 - I don't like this one at all... I don't like escalating either...

4 - we could... but more and more players (premium included) will lose interest over vast periods of time...

5 - I am a freemium (but I didn't had ANY problems with slots 'til now) not by my choice. I live in Macedonia, and we just DO NOT HAVE ANY MEANS of net-shopping and I just can't upgrade. I am willing do send money to some dude in some Normal country to make me premium - but we have 13 other freemiums... They should put a thought here too...

Anyway, it's a pretty complicated situation... I hope someone will think of something brilliant...
Last edited by Pandemonium on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby dexterdexter on Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:57 pm

make all maps doodle earth, that should speed things up a bit.

ps: it's you're tourney so you're responsible for it's success. Check out the fast appreciated tourney and adjust the rules.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby DBandit70 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:19 pm

Wow this is a messy situation, and if this tournament is going to go forward it without questions needs to have some of the bumps ironed out.

1.) Without question and this is true for any freemium in any tournament, that if they are not respectful within reason to have a spot open in a timely matter they should not be allowed to continue. I have no sympathy for those that would join such a lengthy tournament as a freemium and not be able to join games. They should not be allowed any leeway beyond someone having a solid reason for not being able to join a game and even then, they should be only given a break one time before being asked to exit the tourney.

2.) If people leave the tourney or are kicked out it should not affect the scoring of games that have been booked and that are history; what's complete is complete.

3.) I would support the idea of a proxy player for all freemium players 100% and for those that can not come out with a "proxy partner" to move things forward must be asked nicely to step down for the simple understanding that a tourney lasting years will lose it's interest and value with that much passage of time.

4.) Even though I would hate to see the tourney lost and all your hard work be lost with it, ultimately if it is in your best interest to kill this monster, I would completely understand that also. Perhaps you could even make some changes and start a new tourney using the same format but making the changes to it that need to be made for your own sanity's sake :)
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby dementia13 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Hi folks,

I too am a freemium player who has very much enjoyed this tourney and I've always kept slots free. I think rather than having a zero-tolerance policy for freemiums it would be better to have a "probation" period.

Anyways, for my own part, thanks for organizing the tourney and taking up the responsibility. I'm enjoying it and I hope to continue to participate!
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby mcshanester29 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:28 pm

VicFontaine wrote:Eliminate the length in two ways:

1) change the tournament to be SEVERAL tournaments that build as a story: ACT 1, ACT 2, ACT 3. I.e., "Jules Verne Act 1 tournament." And so on.
This may have the advantage of generating NEW excitement and new blood into future ACTS, i.e., "future" Jules Verne tourney's that will complete the modified vision. If this is done, a fresh, rewritten home page for the tournament must be done that is short, succinct, and a few hundred words.

Winners of each do not have to advance unless they choose, receive a medal, maybe premium (?), and a pat on the back.

2) Cut a few maps from each ACT, which will shorten things.

Re: Players:
1) I have no tolerance for players who say they'll participate then do not, and never say anything. You shouldn't either, since you're doing the work. If you hear nothing, they're gone. You're already doing this. I support you there, at least!
2) Be ruthless: if they don't show, keep the game but reformat the game to include X fewer number of players, minus the player who didn't show. This is simple, and could be done within 24 hours of a new round formation.



I would have to agree with this solution...I think breaking it down into separate acts or act 2 maps 1- 8 as one, act 2 maps 9-15 as another and act 3 maps 16-22

Or cutting maps works good as well. Unfortunately you might have to cut some who don't join there games within say 72hrs.

I would say no to proxies as it adds more problems.

I know your hard work is appreciated and no one would fault you if you just decide to let this one die as it is complicated and poorly designed. Or maybe you can just figure out a finale after the maps are played out to shorten it. I agree we don't want it to go real long and you are right at this pace it will take a long time.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby fbonsignori on Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:24 am

IMHO proposal n. 2 is the cleanest: about the following scoring adjustment problem ... we will think after ...
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Fewnix on Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:47 am

Thank you for taking on this extremely difficult task. Please make whatever changes you think appropriate including canceling the whole mess.

One suggestion is to set up a cut-off point, say the end of Act !1, Round 1, and then invite those you want to invite, or allow people you want to allow, to sign up for this tournament continued in a new format. You might say: " Act II round 2 will only be open to the top 16 players from round 1." or: "Act !1 round 2 will be decided from this forma and these maps" . You might rule out freemiums or people who have been slow to respond to an invite or people you just don't like. You have the power.

Maybe, at the same time, ask for volunteers to withdraw from the tournament and start with a much smaller pool. of people who know they are in it for the long haul and can be expected to pull their weight.

To help, please feel free to cancel me from this tournament if it help, keep me in if it helps.

Any other volunteers willing to help Dukassur when he needs some help, recognizing we hope to be sending: " in please" for lots of tournaments he organizes in the future.?
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:53 am

Thank you all very much for your feedback, and for your many compliments and words of encouragement!

Tonight I'll have an announcent (well, tomorrow morning for most of you.) Meanwhile, I can report that I made a couple changes to the Greenland games, so one of the ones that was holding us up has now started, and the other one I've nuked and will re-create once I'm sure who's in it.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby general_c on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:06 am

I like the idea of splitting this up into a couple tournaments.

After this act there should only be 48 players so perhaps you can enforce a 4 game freemium rule?

Ditching or stand in players are not good solutions.

Also I'm ready for South America anytime.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:06 am

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments, and also thank you all for your many compliments and words of encouragement! :)

I really didn't expect a consensus to emerge, and I wasn't disappointed. On almost every idea we are divided.

On the issue of taking as long as it takes vs. cutting it short, we have views like:
SirSebstar wrote:I vote we continue at a snailpace no matter how long it takes.
JJ41375 wrote:Otherwise let this take 4 or 5 years. Hopefully most of us will still be playing.
rjhankey wrote:I'm also in the camp that we continue along with the tournament as designed, although it may run for quite a while. You could extend an opportunity to all involved in the tournament to turn their spot over to a reserve if they're not interested in a tourney that's going to run as long as this one?

but we also have views like:
chapcrap wrote:...making the tournament take longer than another year probably should out of the question. This has already been going a while and many more players could be out by then.
torres44cm wrote:I don't want to play a 3 year tourney.
bobzimmerman wrote:I would be satisfied with shortening the tourney for your sake.
Pandemonium wrote:4 - we could... but more and more players (premium included) will lose interest over vast periods of time...


On the issue of ruthlessly cutting freemiums who cannot keep enough slots free:
rmjw10 wrote:I think that if someone cannot join a game in proper time then they should be cut.
chapcrap wrote:Third, if this tournament can't be run with freemiums, then you must either cut them or use proxies. It seems to me like it can't be run properly with freemiums (...) they can't handle the game load with only 4 slots available.

but we also have:
dementia13 wrote:I too am a freemium player who has very much enjoyed this tourney and I've always kept slots free. I think rather than having a zero-tolerance policy for freemiums it would be better to have a "probation" period.
Pandemonium wrote:5 - I am a freemium (but I didn't had ANY problems with slots 'til now) not by my choice. I live in Macedonia, and we just DO NOT HAVE ANY MEANS of net-shopping and I just can't upgrade. I am willing do send money to some dude in some Normal country to make me premium - but we have 13 other freemiums... They should put a thought here too....
general_c wrote:Ditching or stand in players are not good solutions.


On the subject of proxies:
DBandit70 wrote:3.) I would support the idea of a proxy player for all freemium players 100% and for those that can not come out with a "proxy partner" to move things forward must be asked nicely to step down for the simple understanding that a tourney lasting years will lose it's interest and value with that much passage of time.

However:
SirSebstar wrote:negative on proxy players, unacceptable. besides who would win the prize then, the proxy or the original?
chapcrap wrote:The biggest problem with proxies is not only finding them, but how would you decide a who gets a medal if the proxy play 40% and the freemium players plays 60%? And if the freemium is allowed to use a proxy, he might use them to help play maps that he is not as good at, giving a definite advantage in this format.
mcshanester29 wrote:I would say no to proxies as it adds more problems.
(from another forum)
Night Strike wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:3. Here's an idea I had: allow proxy players. Would this be legitimate and allowed under the rules? Basically the freemiums that can't make an invite because of slot limitations could invite a premium proxy to play in their place. Would the rules allow it? Would the players who are playing on their own behalf be outraged? I think it might work.

This one would not be allowed. If the free player wants to play and can't fit it in, they need to buy a premium membership.
Looks like the proxy idea is dead.

We have a suggestion of switching to Escalating:
fairman wrote:change the spoil to escalating in all round.

but also much opposition:
bobzimmerman wrote:Please though, no escalating spoils. :sick:
Bandido wrote:And no escalating plzzzz!


More than one person suggested it might be best to just put the horse down:
DBandit70 wrote:4.) Even though I would hate to see the tourney lost and all your hard work be lost with it, ultimately if it is in your best interest to kill this monster, I would completely understand that also.
mcshanester29 wrote:I know your hard work is appreciated and no one would fault you if you just decide to let this one die as it is complicated and poorly designed.


Here are some other suggestions that are very close to what I have decided:
VestedPower wrote: You could tally up the team points after this round though and declare a winner, there are enough rounds played so far to do so. But 16 or 32 should be up next for the top singles players. Eliminate the rest of the field. The tournament was too excessive. Finish it up.
VicFontaine wrote:1) change the tournament to be SEVERAL tournaments that build as a story: ACT 1, ACT 2, ACT 3. I.e., "Jules Verne Act 1 tournament." And so on.
This may have the advantage of generating NEW excitement and new blood into future ACTS, i.e., "future" Jules Verne tourney's that will complete the modified vision. If this is done, a fresh, rewritten home page for the tournament must be done that is short, succinct, and a few hundred words.
Fewnix wrote:One suggestion is to set up a cut-off point, say the end of Act !1, Round 1, and then invite those you want to invite, or allow people you want to allow, to sign up for this tournament continued in a new format. You might say: " Act II round 2 will only be open to the top 16 players from round 1." or: "Act !1 round 2 will be decided from this forma and these maps".
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:09 am

Ok, here is what we are going to do.

1. The main body of the tournament will end at the end of Act II Round 1 Map 9. We are currently working on Map 6, which means that we will play three more complete maps after Greenland, covering the book "In Search of the Castaways."

For the duration of these 9 maps, we will continue to be patient with the freemium players. We've been patient until now, it would be silly to start getting aggressive about cutting people when we are now 2/3 of the way through the main body. However, you are supposed to keep at least 3 slots reserved for this tournament. Most of you have, but a few do not. You must be actively trying to free up a third slot, and if you do not have one, then you definitely must not be joining any non-tourney games, or you will be cut.

2. We will crown the individual tournament champion based on his/her score at the end of those maps. There will NOT be an individual finale of any kind; the points you are earning now are your points toward holding the individual crown.

3. There will be a team finale. Either the top four or the top eight teams will face off for the team crown. This is still a while away, so I have some time to think about the precise rules of the team finale, but I can tell you this now: each round will be a best-of-3 quads series. Therefore, it is absolutely non-negotiable: if you have freemiums on your team, then they absolutely MUST have three slots available by this point.

4. I will honour the premium prize. I know that after DJENRE first vanished I announced that I wasn't going to be responsible for covering the premium prize, but we've all put a lot of time and effort into this tourney, and I want to end on a high note. So, the original premium prize as promised by DJENRE will be delivered. One year to the individual champion, and one year divided among the four members of the winning team (so four prizes of three months each.) The only stipulation I will add is that nobody can win more than one. So, if the winner of the individual crown is also on the winning team, then he will only recieve the one-year individual prize, and his 3-month prize will be given to the next-highest freemium player on the scoreboard.

5. Act II Round 2, Act II Round 3, and Act III will be separate tournaments entirely. These tournaments will not be launched until this tournament is finished or almost finished, so I have plenty of time to settle on their exact format. They will celebrate the Jules Verne books outlined in the original tournament and use the same map, but the settings and scoring system may be completely different. I will also try to have some kind of Grand Finale tournament after all four of the satellite tournaments are over.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby kennys777 on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:47 am

Dukasaur wrote:Ok, here is what we are going to do.

1. The main body of the tournament will end at the end of Act II Round 1 Map 9. We are currently working on Map 6, which means that we will play three more complete maps after Greenland, covering the book "In Search of the Castaways."

For the duration of these 9 maps, we will continue to be patient with the freemium players. We've been patient until now, it would be silly to start getting aggressive about cutting people when we are now 2/3 of the way through the main body. However, you are supposed to keep at least 3 slots reserved for this tournament. Most of you have, but a few do not. You must be actively trying to free up a third slot, and if you do not have one, then you definitely must not be joining any non-tourney games, or you will be cut.

2. We will crown the individual tournament champion based on his/her score at the end of those maps. There will NOT be an individual finale of any kind; the points you are earning now are your points toward holding the individual crown.

3. There will be a team finale. Either the top four or the top eight teams will face off for the team crown. This is still a while away, so I have some time to think about the precise rules of the team finale, but I can tell you this now: each round will be a best-of-3 quads series. Therefore, it is absolutely non-negotiable: if you have freemiums on your team, then they absolutely MUST have three slots available by this point.

4. I will honour the premium prize. I know that after DJENRE first vanished I announced that I wasn't going to be responsible for covering the premium prize, but we've all put a lot of time and effort into this tourney, and I want to end on a high note. So, the original premium prize as promised by DJENRE will be delivered. One year to the individual champion, and one year divided among the four members of the winning team (so four prizes of three months each.) The only stipulation I will add is that nobody can win more than one. So, if the winner of the individual crown is also on the winning team, then he will only recieve the one-year individual prize, and his 3-month prize will be given to the next-highest freemium player on the scoreboard.

5. Act II Round 2, Act II Round 3, and Act III will be separate tournaments entirely. These tournaments will not be launched until this tournament is finished or almost finished, so I have plenty of time to settle on their exact format. They will celebrate the Jules Verne books outlined in the original tournament and use the same map, but the settings and scoring system may be completely different. I will also try to have some kind of Grand Finale tournament after all four of the satellite tournaments are over.


Good decision, as you were not the original TO, I think this is the best solution to the problem...Thanks for everything Dukasaur.

I was getting bored with the slowing down of this tourney anyway, so this is a plus for me...
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby bobdakota on Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:33 pm

=D>

Sounds like a great solution
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-5]

Postby Pandemonium on Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:00 pm

Greenland RESULTS [COMPLETE]

Game 9565721
1. Lorenzol - 8
2. Lazyfox - 6
3. Bobdakota - 1
4. Fewnix - 3
5. King Gary - 4
6. McShanester29 - 2
7. Sam02 - 10
8. Seamus76 - 0

Game 9594937
9. Dementia13 - 2
10. jrbedwell - 3
11. MattiWacklin - 6
12. Dexterdexter - 1
13. VestedPower - 4
14. Marechal Joffre - 8
16. Fbonsignori - 10

Game 9594938
17. Hotpockets - 2
18. Pandemonium - 4
19. General Redstone - 10
20. Hook2 - 6
21. Opposites. - 3
22. general_c - 8
23. SirSebstar - 1

Game 9654565
24. PnC - 6
25. Fairman - 4
26. growler - 8
27. Magneto_acolyte - 3
28. bobzimmerman - 0
29. squishyg - 2
30. Conchobar - 10
31. duncana - 1

Game 9565740
33. severs - 1
34. Pilot16 - 2
35. DBandit70 - 4
36. Stevkov - 3
37. torres44cm - 6
38. IR1SH ACE - 10
39. Dustin800 - 8
40. Kennys777 - 0

Game 9565739
41. Darkseb - 4
42. Le Rodent - 3
43. Cptbeefalo - 2
44. Rjhankey - 6
45. Chapcrap - 1
46. Hermey68 - 8
47. Uckuki - 10
48. JJ41375 - 0

Game 9565758
49. MlMarcelo - 4
50. Pack Man - 1
51. Rmjw10 - 10
52. Ttblanch - 6
53. Bandido - 8
54. Justin3f - 3
55. Dukasaur - 2

Game 9565757
56. Ringemaster - 1
57. Stofer71 - 6
58. VicFontaine - 8
59. DrWar - 3
60. Capt. Ivan Drago - 2
61. Davetso - 10
62. djelebert - 4
Last edited by Pandemonium on Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:24 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby mcshanester29 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:37 am

Looks like a great solution Duk!!! Thanks for rescuing this tournament and all the hard work!! And now honoring the premium...top notch in my book!!
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Bandido on Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:38 am

Thanks Dukasaur ! Great job ! =D>
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2012-10-20 23:23:17 - neutral player eliminated madman7 from the game in round - 1
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:57 am

I am claiming bonus for Game 9470168. This has not been confirmed by game members due to fog of war.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby davetso on Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:03 am

Claiming bonus for Game 9565757.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Pandemonium on Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:47 am

davetso wrote:Claiming bonus for Game 9565757.


As the rules say:
"If it says bonus can be scored with 3 players does that mean exactly 3 or at least 3?" The answer is AT LEAST 3. For Act II Round 1 this will become at least 4, and then in Act II Round 2 it will go back down to at least 3.

So, Dukasaur should have the last word on this one...
on the other hand, it was a 7 player game from the start... I dunno...
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:17 pm

davetso wrote:Claiming bonus for Game Game 9565757.

fixed game link

show: game log extracts


Pandemonium wrote:
davetso wrote:Claiming bonus for Game 9565757.


As the rules say:
"If it says bonus can be scored with 3 players does that mean exactly 3 or at least 3?" The answer is AT LEAST 3. For Act II Round 1 this will become at least 4, and then in Act II Round 2 it will go back down to at least 3.

So, Dukasaur should have the last word on this one...
on the other hand, it was a 7 player game from the start... I dunno...

Okay, so there's no dispute that he held the appropriate region for 3 rounds. There's also no dispute that he killed djelebert before capturing it, so there weren't enough players left to satisfy the "at least four" restriction.

The only issue is whether, because it was a seven-player game, we should ease the restrictions and make it 3 instead of 4. Reasonable suggestion, but I'm going to say "no" only because we don't know if other people in seven player games might have tried for a bonus if they thought they might get an exception.
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby davetso on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:27 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
davetso wrote:Claiming bonus for Game Game 9565757.

fixed game link

show: game log extracts


Pandemonium wrote:
davetso wrote:Claiming bonus for Game 9565757.


As the rules say:
"If it says bonus can be scored with 3 players does that mean exactly 3 or at least 3?" The answer is AT LEAST 3. For Act II Round 1 this will become at least 4, and then in Act II Round 2 it will go back down to at least 3.

So, Dukasaur should have the last word on this one...
on the other hand, it was a 7 player game from the start... I dunno...

Okay, so there's no dispute that he held the appropriate region for 3 rounds. There's also no dispute that he killed djelebert before capturing it, so there weren't enough players left to satisfy the "at least four" restriction.

The only issue is whether, because it was a seven-player game, we should ease the restrictions and make it 3 instead of 4. Reasonable suggestion, but I'm going to say "no" only because we don't know if other people in seven player games might have tried for a bonus if they thought they might get an exception.



i was in complete control of the game - the only reason i left 2 others was because i figured this was an at least 3 kind of thing like always or else i would have left dj with 1 or 2 units like i did with the rest of the peeps :/

additionally, having at least 4 is a bit unfair in 7 people games :(
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:00 am

davetso wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:Okay, so there's no dispute that he held the appropriate region for 3 rounds. There's also no dispute that he killed djelebert before capturing it, so there weren't enough players left to satisfy the "at least four" restriction.

The only issue is whether, because it was a seven-player game, we should ease the restrictions and make it 3 instead of 4. Reasonable suggestion, but I'm going to say "no" only because we don't know if other people in seven player games might have tried for a bonus if they thought they might get an exception.



i was in complete control of the game - the only reason i left 2 others was because i figured this was an at least 3 kind of thing like always or else i would have left dj with 1 or 2 units like i did with the rest of the peeps :/

additionally, having at least 4 is a bit unfair in 7 people games :(

To be honest, I agree with you. The rule should have been written so that the restriction could be adjusted if a game didn't have the full seven players. Unfortunately it wasn't, and I'm worried that if we retroactively change it someone else could say, "hey, that's not fair, I was in a seven player game and I didn't try for the bonus because there were only three players left, why does he get an exception, etc., etc."

I'm trying to get through this with as few rule changes as possible. The next tournament will be better as a result of all the things I'm learning here. I know that's probably not a big consolation.

You still get your 10 points for winning the game, so it's not a total loss.. :)
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby SirSebstar on Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:59 am

agreed. no more rule changes now
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Re: Jules Verne Contest [Act II Round 1 Maps 1-6]

Postby davetso on Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:51 am

fine fine :)
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