Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney- Completed!

Tournaments completed in 2013

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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:26 am

Thank you for your post Night Strike. I appreciate your insight. I will respond to a few things however.

Night Strike wrote:VioIet, there are some valid critiques of your tournament that you should listen to. If tournament games have not started within 14 days, they are automatically dropped by the site. This means that only checking already-made games weekly to see if they started probably isn't a good idea as too many games could drop, which would just cause you and the players more headaches. Anytime I send out invites for a new round, I check the games every 24-48 hours to make sure they have gotten started and re-invite anyone who hasn't joined. Once the games have started, then I tend to only do completion checks every 1-2 weeks, but getting the games started in a timely manner is crucial.


I disagree with the invite thing, as I seem to have to keep stating. I do my job by sending out the invite the first time. I do not see how it is my responsibility if another player misses their invite. It takes a lot of time to send out all those invites in the first place, and I certainly don't appreciate having to go back and re-send invites that I already sent in the first place.
I'm actually quite bewildered that I'm expected to constantly re-send invites when players delete them. I'm sorry if that is what everyone expects, but I will not do that. I am pretty firm on that.

Night Strike wrote:Also, it's up to you whether or not you post a running tally of the standings in the middle of a round, but you do want to make new status-update posts in your thread at least every couple of weeks. They can be things as simple as "Half the games have been completed" or "5 games for this round are still active" or "Invitations for the 2nd set of games have been sent", but they help people quickly know what is going on without having to dig through old posts to see if one has been edited or not.


I thought that's what I had been doing this entire time. Unfortunately, most of it is in between or within the posts between me and Goranz. But I prefer to post the complete standings at the end of each round.

Goranz, you are pretty much trolling at this point. I see no need to continue the back and forth, as it accomplishes nothing. However, I will respond to two things:

GoranZ wrote:Reason why your teammate missed your invite was because your team had 5 wins and you were waiting to see if your team will have enough wins to qualify for the next round... If you like I can prepare preliminary evidence and send it to Tournament Director.


You are really grasping for straws here. We had not won any games by that point. Also, even if we had- waiting to see if we qualify has nothing to do with anything. You qualify to go to the next round by winning games enough games. The timing of accepting the invite has nothing to do with the outcome about whether you qualify or not. Its about skill level at this map, and how much you can win. The two teams that win the most in each group will advance.

But anyway, go ahead and send your preliminary evidence to a TD. And make a C&A report while you're at it.


GoranZ wrote:
Second page? You are probably the only TO that puts the current standings on second page without linking them to the first post. And your info on second page is not even accurate.
VioIet wrote:
Group 3
14. Hook2, darkseb, checker555 - 6 wins (advances)
4.momo33, QuikSilver and ttblanch- 3 wins
15. ubcman64, codierose, RKCVED - 3 wins
2. chapcrap, GoranZ, and mviola- 6 wins (advances)

Team No.14 never had and it seems then never will have 6 victories, so stop taking victories from us.


The wins were an estimation that I did about two weeks ago.
This is also another reason why I prefer to wait until the end of the round, before posting standings. Anytime I post standings mid-way- I have to guess as far as who will win what game, and sometimes I can be wrong. That's what happened in the last tourney, so I did not want to do that again. I get the most accurate results once the round is completely over.

Also, since I don't have the standings on the first or second post (which is ideal), the next most logical place to post them is at the end of the thread. At that point in time, page 2 was the end of the thread. There have just been a lot of posts since then. I already stated that I was going to repost that information at the end of the thread, once Round 1 was over. I am also going to try to work on that chart that greenoaks showed me.

Once I go through the standings again, I will re-count, and change any mistakes that I may have made. Also if anyone else notices a mistake, they can politely bring it to my attention, and I will correct it.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby NoSurvivors on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:53 am

Well I looked at the standings and took the liberty of attempting a chart of where all the teams are currently at.. the (*) is the groups that arent done yet.. correct me if im wrong.. here ya go!

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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby greenoaks on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:48 am

the bigimg tags work better for pics this size
Last edited by greenoaks on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby benga on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:00 am

OMG you are guessing who the winners of the games will be!!!!!!!


AND YOU DON'T DO REINVITES!!!!!!
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby mviola on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:16 am

You're absolutely set on doing this your way, aren't you?

Clearly, it's not working.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby Night Strike on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:42 am

VioIet wrote:Thank you for your post Night Strike. I appreciate your insight. I will respond to a few things however.

Night Strike wrote:VioIet, there are some valid critiques of your tournament that you should listen to. If tournament games have not started within 14 days, they are automatically dropped by the site. This means that only checking already-made games weekly to see if they started probably isn't a good idea as too many games could drop, which would just cause you and the players more headaches. Anytime I send out invites for a new round, I check the games every 24-48 hours to make sure they have gotten started and re-invite anyone who hasn't joined. Once the games have started, then I tend to only do completion checks every 1-2 weeks, but getting the games started in a timely manner is crucial.


I disagree with the invite thing, as I seem to have to keep stating. I do my job by sending out the invite the first time. I do not see how it is my responsibility if another player misses their invite. It takes a lot of time to send out all those invites in the first place, and I certainly don't appreciate having to go back and re-send invites that I already sent in the first place.
I'm actually quite bewildered that I'm expected to constantly re-send invites when players delete them. I'm sorry if that is what everyone expects, but I will not do that. I am pretty firm on that.


Although you're technically in the rules by only sending out 1 invitation, you're in pretty poor taste doing so as an organizer. If that's the way you're going to run your tournaments, then you need to clearly state what will happen to any team that misses an invitation. You can't keep doing this "I may or may not send out another invitation a week later" and "I may or may not remake the games if they automatically delete". And people didn't necessarily decline invitations: they expire after 24 hours. By the way, resending invitations is part of the territory of being a tournament organizer. You either need to accept it or clearly inform your players that you won't tolerate it and clearly post what the penalties will be.

VioIet wrote:The wins were an estimation that I did about two weeks ago.
This is also another reason why I prefer to wait until the end of the round, before posting standings. Anytime I post standings mid-way- I have to guess as far as who will win what game, and sometimes I can be wrong. That's what happened in the last tourney, so I did not want to do that again. I get the most accurate results once the round is completely over.


What's wrong with just tallying up completed games? There's no reason to guess outcomes on anything.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:43 am

mviola wrote:You're absolutely set on doing this your way, aren't you?


Absolutely.

mviola wrote:Clearly, it's not working.


That's a matter of opinion. It works great for me.


Night Strike wrote:Although you're technically in the rules by only sending out 1 invitation, you're in pretty poor taste doing so as an organizer. If that's the way you're going to run your tournaments, then you need to clearly state what will happen to any team that misses an invitation. You can't keep doing this "I may or may not send out another invitation a week later" and "I may or may not remake the games if they automatically delete". And people didn't necessarily decline invitations: they expire after 24 hours. By the way, resending invitations is part of the territory of being a tournament organizer. You either need to accept it or clearly inform your players that you won't tolerate it and clearly post what the penalties will be.


I agree with you, that I should inform players of my policy on missed invites. It wasn't a big deal in the last tourney, and seemed to be better understood. So I didn't think it was necessary. But as its become a big deal this time around- clearly it is. I will include a disclaimer about that in the third tourney. In fact, I will add it to the OP as well in this tourney. Hopefully that will once and for all clear up the issues about the invites. Had I stated that in the OP- there probably wouldn't have been as much drama in this thread. But like I said, I didn't know until retrospect that it would be such a great issue here amongst some teams.

Also, just noting- I've participated in tourneys where if you miss your invite- you are out. No excuses. I am not going to be that harsh, but I think its perfectly fair that if you miss, you have to wait sometime until your game is re-made. And yes I understand that there a variety of reasons for misses. I know that 99% of the time, it is unintentional, and the invite just expires before the player realizes. It's happened to me plenty of times. I've missed invites without even knowing it, so I perfectly understand how it can happen.

I will also state that TO's who re-send invites over and over must have a lot more time on their hands and a lot more patience than I do. If not doing so makes me in poor taste, then oh well.

Also, I will respond in detail to this part:

Night Strike wrote:You can't keep doing this "I may or may not send out another invitation a week later" and "I may or may not remake the games if they automatically delete".


I never said anything such thing, so please don't misquote me. To loosely paraphrase, I said that, "I don't typically re-send invites. If you miss then you have to wait til the end of the round for your game to be remade. I have made exceptions when a player has politely pm'd me, informing me that they missed the invite and would like me to re-send it to them."

I believe that is nearly verbatim to what I've said in many posts in this thread. To me, that seems very clear and fair, and I'm not sure what about that is not being understood. But like I said, I'll make a disclaimer to clear this up once and for all.

Night Strike wrote:What's wrong with just tallying up completed games? There's no reason to guess outcomes on anything.


There is nothing wrong with tallying up the completed games, imo. That's what I've been doing all along. It just hasn't been enough for some people, as I've been asked for the complete standings, despite my posting of the current wins as they came.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:07 am

It is time for the second round to begin. Thank you everyone for participating so far and congratulations to all the teams who made it to the quarter-finals! Those who advanced to the second round, prepare to receive your invites within the next three-four weeks.

Here will be the groupings for the second round:

Group A
7. Kingm, hmsps,EddieMay -
8. BGtheBrain, TheJonah, TheCrown-
11. VioIet & Falkomagno & jsnyder748 -
14. Hook2, darkseb, checker555 -

Group B
5. dragonz20, silvanus, donovan THE DARK-
2. chapcrap, GoranZ, and mviola-
6. anonymus genoke DJ Teflon-
13.Benga, Jug68,VJ.-
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby GoranZ on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 am

VioIet wrote:I will also state that TO's who re-send invites over and over must have a lot more time on their hands and a lot more patience than I do.

Over and Over? What are you talking about. No one is sending invites over and over. They send 2 within 48 hours(and thats it)

VioIet wrote:Also, I will respond in detail to this part:

Night Strike wrote:You can't keep doing this "I may or may not send out another invitation a week later" and "I may or may not remake the games if they automatically delete".


I never said anything such thing, so please don't misquote me. To loosely paraphrase, I said that, "I don't typically re-send invites. If you miss then you have to wait til the end of the round for your game to be remade.

Hmm lets look your approach from players perspective: Opponent misses an invite, you don't resend the invite within 48 hours game gets deleted and when you resend the invite players to the team that originally joined, don't join the new game. The excuse will be simple: "We don't have time now, we will have next month".(USING EXACTLY YOUR EXCUSE TO NOT RESEND INVITES...). What we do in this case? Even TD wont be able to moderate this problem that you create in the first place.

Violet what you do is exactly what Night Strike says... you send your reinvites after one, two, tree or even four weeks. That is obviously way too much anyway you look at it. On top the time is random, so players cant make any plans for their future games.

VioIet wrote:
Night Strike wrote:What's wrong with just tallying up completed games? There's no reason to guess outcomes on anything.


There is nothing wrong with tallying up the completed games, imo. That's what I've been doing all along. It just hasn't been enough for some people, as I've been asked for the complete standings, despite my posting of the current wins as they came.

Who are those "some people"?
BTW To my understanding "complete standings" means standings of completed games, while uncompleted go in "To Be Determined" section.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby benga on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:01 am

I see that you have fixed you quaterfinals group so that you won't play Goran :)

Anyway hf all in quarters!
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:24 am

benga wrote:I see that you have fixed you quaterfinals group so that you won't play Goran :)

Anyway hf all in quarters!



I would actually love to play Goranz! Hopefully my team will meet his in the next round! The more challenging the opponent, the better! The better the competition, the faster you'll improve. And also, I use random.com to determine the groupings. I figure that is the most fair and random way.

Jsnyder (who happens to be my teammate) has been missing too many invites. I am looking for a replacement for him.

GoranZ wrote:Over and Over? What are you talking about. No one is sending invites over and over. They send 2 within 48 hours(and thats it)


I was sending invites over and over, and it can be quite tiresome.


GoranZ wrote:Hmm lets look your approach from players perspective: Opponent misses an invite, you don't resend the invite within 48 hours game gets deleted and when you resend the invite players to the team that originally joined, don't join the new game. The excuse will be simple: "We don't have time now, we will have next month".(USING EXACTLY YOUR EXCUSE TO NOT RESEND INVITES...). What we do in this case? Even TD wont be able to moderate this problem that you create in the first place.


That is perfectly understandable. Things come up and life gets in the way. If someone doesn't have the time for it, I understand completely. Once they let me know, I can go ahead and look for a replacement. We all get busy at one point or another.

GoranZ wrote:Violet what you do is exactly what Night Strike says... you send your reinvites after one, two, tree or even four weeks. That is obviously way too much anyway you look at it. On top the time is random, so players cant make any plans for their future games.


Yes, that is true! That's why I recommend this tourney for premium members. I don't recommend that a freemium join, because they won't be able to play the nine games in each round.

GoranZ wrote:BTW To my understanding "complete standings" means standings of completed games, while uncompleted go in "To Be Determined" section.


Completed means for all games to be finished. If a game is not completed, you can just say "In Progress."
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby chapcrap on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:58 pm

We had a player miss invites in our games. Can you please resend them?
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:15 pm

The invites have been re-sent. Thanks for letting me know!
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby Falkomagno on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:03 pm

Oh my dear Vio. I just catch up with this thread. That Goranz is really a Pain in the ass! But of course is always good to extract the best from all situation, and sometimes annoying critics (or in this case, disrespectful) can help to improve yourself, and also notice which points are you not going to concede.

I can tell you that i like the way you manage the tourney, and I'm having a lot of fun in it. also, i think is valid the point raised about posting partial results in your first post, instead of puting it in the second page. Also the teams who advance in the very same post would be more easily accesible for people like me who don't like to read the whole forum to figure it out were the statisc, positions and results are.

You are doing great! Your patience (and some others including myself) is being tested, and the way of handling it shows that you are a very nice person. kuddos!
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby GoranZ on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:31 pm

Falkomagno wrote:Oh my dear Vio. I just catch up with this thread. That Goranz is really a Pain in the ass! But of course is always good to extract the best from all situation, and sometimes annoying critics (or in this case, disrespectful) can help to improve yourself, and also notice which points are you not going to concede.

lol You can only dream for respect if you cant keep your word... or if you are setting games ;)
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Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (15)

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