Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney- Completed!

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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:21 am

Goranz, here is a break-down of your team's games and exactly what happened:

October 13- 6th, 7th, 8th games started

Oct 11- 3rd game started

October 3- 1st , 2nd, 4th, 5th games started

1 game hasn’t started yet. This is 8 games starting in 10 days. This is a week in a half. But why was this?


The week of- 09/23- first set of 3 invites sent out (in all three- someone missed an invite, so they did not start.

The week of 09/30- second set of three invites sent out, and invites for the first three games re-sent. 2 of the first three games started, and 2 of the second set of games started. One invite was missed in the second batch of games- which is why only 2 started in that batch. An invite was missed for the second time in a row in the first 3-set of games. I did not re-send that invite. So only two of those games started. This makes four games total starting on the same day, October 3.

The week of 10/07- the third set of three invites were sent out. That should’ve been about two nights ago. I would have sent those games out sooner, however I tried to give your group some extra time, as a courtesy. All three of those games started today.

Last night, October 12, I re-made the game that had been deleted. Normally, this game would’ve had to wait about another month to be re-made. However, in game finder, I still had spots left over for Group 3. So it wouldn’t be too confusing to make this game now while those slots were still available. Keep in mind, this game should’ve started the week before 09/30. Due to missed invites, it started late.

But your group unfortunately, seemed to have the most issues with missed invites. Not necessarily from your team, but from the teams you are playing against in your group. So yes, that messed up the natural starting time of the games. I can’t control that your games started later than they were supposed to; and that more than three game started at once due to missed invites. I sent the original invites out at the time they were supposed to. I feel that is what you and mviola are not understanding.


Since when having no room on first page is a problem? There are handful other ways to achieve the same effect within 1 post.


I'm actually not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate. What other ways? Just keep in mind though, that I am not going to copy/paste it to the OP. But if you have other ideas, I'd love to hear.


To be precise 9 days if I accept the last invite today.


10 days; however, I began sending out the invites the week of 09/23. I explained all of that above. Mviola has no need to exaggerate, and she doesn't seem to understand what really happened with the invites and why things were delayed.

no its not against the rules to have no brain... Since you are dumb enough to figure it out on your own I'll translate it to you. I did read the format but yesterday I accepted 4 invites, currently I have 2 new. Last week I started 3 games which puts all games within a week.


This is not correct. Please see above.


The game that I was re invited into was Game 11724875Watch game... I don't see Hook2 in it but if you do you should visit a Doctor, he can help you. For your information more then 1 game was missing, and some games are still missing even now.


My apologies on that one. I got Hook's team confused with Momo's team. I just knew there was one invite you had missed and assumed it was the one against Hook's team. And yes, I know that more games were missing, but that wasn't really the point here. It was not the time for three of them been created yet- and it meant that one Hook game would have still been missing. When I realized my mistake, and saw I had extra room in the game-finder, I decided to re-make the last Hook game.


For all normal world standings mean current standings regardless if the round is finished or not, except for you. But since we are not mind readers you should have written what you mean in the first page.


I kinda understand what you mean here, especially if you think about how standings are done in sports. I do keep track of the wins (not losses though, because it's really not important in this tourney) in a post on the second page. But remember, DS games take a long time to finish, and for the first few weeks or even first month, there are not enough games finished or wins for it to be worth being tracked. It's a different type of tourney. But when enough games have finished, I do start posting wins. Also, I thought each individual team would have a good enough idea of how well they are doing in their own group. To me- standings means when you get an idea of how a team ranks amongst the other teams in his group/division. If every team just has one win each- it doesn't make sense to me to post standings yet. Once leaders start emerging- then definitely.

I quoted when did u edit out your posts... and it was over 1 month between some action from you. Your logic is amazing it works only for you :D


I'm not sure if you were including both the times when I edited the OP and when I edited the post on page 2. I am pretty certain that one of the other was edited within a month. But yes, it has been over a month since I edited the OP. It doesn't need anymore editing- especially once sign-ups concluded. I honestly, don't think it listed all the timestamps either. It should, of course- but I don't believe that it did for whatever reason. I can't prove that though. I just know that I edited the page 2 post once a week on average.


Actually you not knowing the current rules has a lot with what you are doing wrong in here. Btw the rule is almost 2 years old :D


I still don't think that I am doing things wrong. The fact that I am not doing things the way you feel I should be, does not necessarily make them wrong. What you listed is a guideline (posting once every 30 days). Yes, its what I should be doing; however, I didn't because there was no reason for me to make a new post yet. I could've said something like, "Round 1 is still in progress," but I had already said that, and didn't see a need to say it again. Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I was also doing most of my communication via pm, with those who had questions. My whole objective is to make sure the tourney is fair, follows the format, and that I track the wins accurately, the right people advance and so forth. Also, perhaps that rule that Nosurvivors stated is not strictly followed, because the tourney I am in has lasted for over a year. Or it's possible the TD's don't know about it. It's a great tourney by the way, and the nature of the format is what makes it so ongoing. Also, I wonder if clan tournaments are exempt from this one, because CL and CC can last over a year.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby mviola on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:49 am

VioIet wrote:Goranz, here is a break-down of your team's games and exactly what happened:

October 13- 6th, 7th, 8th games started

Oct 11- 3rd game started

October 3- 1st , 2nd, 4th, 5th games started

1 game hasn’t started yet. This is 8 games starting in 10 days. This is a week in a half. But why was this?


The week of- 09/23- first set of 3 invites sent out (in all three- someone missed an invite, so they did not start.

The week of 09/30- second set of three invites sent out, and invites for the first three games re-sent. 2 of the first three games started, and 2 of the second set of games started. One invite was missed in the second batch of games- which is why only 2 started in that batch. An invite was missed for the second time in a row in the first 3-set of games. I did not re-send that invite. So only two of those games started. This makes four games total starting on the same day, October 3.

The week of 10/07- the third set of three invites were sent out. That should’ve been about two nights ago. I would have sent those games out sooner, however I tried to give your group some extra time, as a courtesy. All three of those games started today.

Last night, October 12, I re-made the game that had been deleted. Normally, this game would’ve had to wait about another month to be re-made. However, in game finder, I still had spots left over for Group 3. So it wouldn’t be too confusing to make this game now while those slots were still available. Keep in mind, this game should’ve started the week before 09/30. Due to missed invites, it started late.

But your group unfortunately, seemed to have the most issues with missed invites. Not necessarily from your team, but from the teams you are playing against in your group. So yes, that messed up the natural starting time of the games. I can’t control that your games started later than they were supposed to; and that more than three game started at once due to missed invites. I sent the original invites out at the time they were supposed to. I feel that is what you and mviola are not understanding.

Christ, for the last time, no.

My issue is that it took you at least a week to reinvite. If you're going to say in the tourney description you will send out 3 invites every week for 3 weeks, and then when someone misses, it takes you a week to reinvite, it unfairly adds a high game load that no one else in the tourney except for our group got. The first few turns in a Das Schloß game are the most important, and having more of those turns where I need to coordinate with my team is unfair.

To be precise 9 days if I accept the last invite today.


10 days; however, I began sending out the invites the week of 09/23. I explained all of that above. Mviola has no need to exaggerate, and she doesn't seem to understand what really happened with the invites and why things were delayed.[/quote]
He*

The point still stands, even with the estimate that I made. A week or nine days or ten days is too long.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:51 am

TheCrown wrote:Dear Vi, when you make your 1st batch of games, you can label them accordingly. For example:

Game Label: Prelims - Group 1 - 1st batch
Game Label: Prelims - Group 2 - 1st batch
Game Label: Prelims - Group 3 - 1st batch
Game Label: Prelims - Group 4 - 1st batch

or

Game Label: Prelims - Group 1 - 1 vs. 4
Game Label: Prelims - Group 1 - 2 vs. 3


That actually does look very organized.


TheCrown wrote:My Avalanche tourneys are made by levels to have everyone going at once... just something to think about. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we appreciate your time you spend on making a tourney. And I especially enjoy your responses on this thread and marvel and how you don't explode at us... =D>


Thank you Crown :)

Though some of the negative feedback can be disheartening, especially when I tried so hard, I am actually still having a ton of fun with this tourney. I can't please everyone, so I will just chalk a lot of it up to that. The DS dubs tourney was a lot of fun, and this one so far has been even more fun. DS is my favorite map, and I feel that there are not enough tourneys on it. I also feel that only a small portion of the CC population know how to play it really well. For months, I was looking and looking through the tournament finder, and I just couldn't find a DS one :( In about a year- I only saw one DS dubs tourney that I was able to enter. Afterwards, I couldn't find any . So then, I finally thought to myself- instead of sitting around waiting, why don't I just make my own :D

I did this tourney because I thought it was a great idea, a great map, and that many would enjoy it. When I made the first one, I had already planned that I would do a trips and a quads version.

I also loved the competitiveness of my first DS dubs tourney. The competition was fierce. I had won a DS dubs tourney a year ago, with my good friend and partner, Falkomagno. That gave us a lot of confidence, and we thought that we were so good. But in retrospect- the competition wasn't as fierce, and it was only an 8 team tournament. So fast-forward a year later and we get completely schooled in my own tourney :D :lol: It was lots of fun though, and we learned a lot from it.

I hope more people will make more DS tourneys, as I'd join them in a heartbeat. My settings are auto, seq, no spoils, chained foggy. However, I would be more than willing to play other settings as well in other tourneys. The one that me and falko did before was escalating.

TheCrown wrote: And I especially enjoy your responses on this thread and marvel and how you don't explode at us... =D>


Hehe :)

Even if everyone may not agree or get along, I feel that I still need to try to be as professional/diplomatic as possible. If someone tries to find fault with me- I would prefer it be for the way that I organized the tourney (as that's subjective to a degree), rather than for the way that I responded to and treated them in the thread. And yes, that is quite a feat for an emotional female, such as myself :D :)

I don't mind getting questions, and I try to clear up as much confusion as possible. They may even prove helpful for those who are reading the thread, but may not post.

I know you are concerned about the length of Round 1 (about a month in a half more to go). But Round 2- Quarterfinals will be a lot smoother and faster, so just bear with me for a little longer :)
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:36 am

To be precise 9 days if I accept the last invite today.


10 days; however, I began sending out the invites the week of 09/23. I explained all of that above. Mviola has no need to exaggerate, and she doesn't seem to understand what really happened with the invites and why things were delayed.

He*



My apologies. He*

mviola wrote:The point still stands, even with the estimate that I made. A week or nine days or ten days is too long.


Hmm, I think you meant to say, "too short,", instead of "too long." Yes, I agree that 8-9 games starting in 10 days is normally too many. But things got a bit messed up in your group with the missed invites- which is why it happened that way.


mviola wrote:
Christ, for the last time, no.

My issue is that it took you at least a week to reinvite. If you're going to say in the tourney description you will send out 3 invites every week for 3 weeks, and then when someone misses, it takes you a week to reinvite, it unfairly adds a high game load that no one else in the tourney except for our group got. The first few turns in a Das Schloß game are the most important, and having more of those turns where I need to coordinate with my team is unfair.


As I had stated previously, I normally don't re-invite. I will if I happen to blatantly catch it, or if someone asks me to re-invite. The thing is, I typically only check game finder once a week. Once I create all the games- send all the invites- I naturally assume that all will be accepted and all is well. Of course, that is not always the case. But it is not my mindset that, "oh this team is going to reject all of their invites, so I better re-check the games the next night or so."

Yes, someone can argue that I should check game-finder more often than once a week. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. It depends on how busy I am, or whether or not I remember to. It's already in my mind that I will be going to game-finder once a week to make more games, so normally, I'm not thinking to check it in-between. I pretty much assume that all or at least most accepted their invites and the game has started.

So then, a week later, when it is time for me to re-make the games, I am disappointed to see that invites are missed, and those games didn't start (if I happen to notice it). Again, the majority of the invites are accepted, so I really don't expect this to happen.

The reason why I don't always re-invite, is because it can be annoying- as its more work for me to have to send the invites again and again. Also, I don't want entrants to take their invites for granted- and think that I will just continue to invite them if they keep missing (I know this is normally not the case though). Just saying.

I have been in tourneys, where if you miss your invite- you are out- no second chance. While I can understand the TO's frustration, I do not choose to be that harsh, which is why I don't have that in my rules. I understand that people may be busy, have an account sitter, or just have missed the invite alert. I have missed invites before, even when I was active. I'm sure it happens to everyone at one point or another.

So if invites are missed- I can either re-invite (if I notice) or let the game delete. Once I have re-invited twice, I will let the game delete, and re-make it at a later time.

One thing I can fault myself on is not putting the password in the OP. I didn't do so, for what I feel were obvious reasons (random people joining games). I may consider adding that, if it will help solve this problem in future rounds. Hopefully no one will sabotage the games by knowing this- but the password for all tourney games is Violet. And its Violet spelled with a lowercase L, not an "i." This way if someone missed an invite, they can join in without having to wait for me to re-invite them.


Yes, I agree that it was unfair for your group. However, I really didn't expect their would be so many invites that would affect your team this way.
The strange things is that the teams who missed the invites- did so only against your team. They didn't miss the invites with the other teams. I'm not insinuating that I think it was contrived, as I don't believe that. But I'm just admitting that it was quite strange and unlucky for your team. However, I don't really know what to do about that.

If I got the feeling that your group was overwhelmed- I wouldn't have made the third batch of three games the other night. The vibe I got in the thread was that you were "impatient," for lack of a better word, for more of your games to start. Since the missing game against Hook's team was brought up repeatedly- I decided to re-make that one sooner. Also, I still had space left in game-finder for Group 3, which made it easier. I didn't realize that you were angry about this for strategy-related reasons. I understand completely that more games at once gives less time for through-out strategy. That is a more serious deal, and I will give it considerate thought.

If Goranz chooses not to accept that last invite, I understand. I can delete the game and re-make it at a later date.


If your team still truly feels that this was really unfair, I will consider trying to correct this. Here is what immediately comes to mind: If the other three teams in the group consent- each team can play an extra six games. You will play each team in your group two more times- making it a total of 5 games against each team. So in total, you will have played 15 games (each team 5 times).

The pros are that you will get another chance to have your 6 games set out correctly (2 per week). This will give you more chance to discuss strategy, and 6 more chances/games to win.
Also, this doesn't discount the first 9 games- so that the other three teams won't feel as though any of their prior wins won't count. The two teams who have the most wins out of all 15 games will advance.

The cons of this is that is will extend Round 1 a bit longer and its a higher overall gameload. It's also possible other groups may feel slighted about not having 15 games.

Another solution is that if we keep things the way they are- but, if there is a one game difference between the second place team and your team, then your team can play a tie-breaker game with that team to determine who advances. I can see there being more controversy with this option, however.

If I get feedback from Group 3, and even other groups as well that this would be a fair thing to do. If not, I'm willing to accept other ideas as well. This is open for discussion.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby benga on Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:25 pm

VioIet wrote:

Group 2
12. slickstick, soundman, madmom - 3 wins
1. VioIet & Falkomagno & jsnyder748 - 5 wins
11. aaronvollrath, friesuschrist, beeps- 2 wins
13. Benga, Jug68,V.J.- 4 wins

Needs
1 game- Violet & Benga
3 games- aaron & benga




We don't need one game, cause we joined that one game and your team didn't.

It just stood there for 2 weeks before the game disappeared.

It should count as our win.

And it was pretty awkward, as you also joined the game and never cared if it ever started.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:32 am

benga wrote:We don't need one game, cause we joined that one game and your team didn't.


This is incorrect. All games need to be played to have accurate results. It is not fair to the other teams in your group to play less/more games. Everyone should play 9 games.



benga wrote:It just stood there for 2 weeks before the game disappeared.
It should count as our win.


That is not how the tournament works. You must play a game for a win- it will not just be handed to you. If I did that for your team- I'd also have to grant a win to every team that had an opposing team member miss an invite. That would skew the results unfairly.


benga wrote:
And it was pretty awkward, as you also joined the game and never cared if it ever started.


As I've stated countless times already, I do not typically re-invite. I don't know what about that is not clear. And it doesn't matter if its my teammate or not- I treat all teams equally. Any game that needs to be re-made will be done so at the end of Round 1.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby benga on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:12 am

So if I don't join my game like you guys didn't you will be sending invites forever?

Okay, I have no problem with that.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:49 am

benga wrote:So if I don't join my game like you guys didn't you will be sending invites forever?

Okay, I have no problem with that.



I don't believe that anyone misses an invite on purpose. If I feel that a particular player is purposely declining their invites again and again, without any good reason- then I will have to come up with an alternative. Most likely- that team member will have to be replaced. But I don't expect to have to do that for any team in this tournament.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby benga on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:34 am

VioIet wrote:
benga wrote:So if I don't join my game like you guys didn't you will be sending invites forever?

Okay, I have no problem with that.



I don't believe that anyone misses an invite on purpose. If I feel that a particular player is purposely declining their invites again and again, without any good reason- then I will have to come up with an alternative. Most likely- that team member will have to be replaced. But I don't expect to have to do that for any team in this tournament.


So your teammate recevied 3 invites and he joined only 2 games,
do you have different approach for your team and others?

And how will you figure out are the misses accidental or not?
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:59 am

benga wrote:
So your teammate received 3 invites and he joined only 2 games,
do you have different approach for your team and others?

And how will you figure out are the misses accidental or not?



I have the same approach for every team, regardless if its my team or not. I already stated that above.

I assume all misses are accidental. It doesn't make sense that anyone would purposely be missing. If they are purposely missing, they will need to explain why. Anyone with habitual misses will be replaced.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:02 pm

All of the Round 1 games have been sent out! I also re-made the four games that had been deleted due to missed invites.

I expect that Round 2 will be starting in about 3 weeks. I will post the standings at the end of Round 1.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby GoranZ on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:43 am

VioIet wrote:
benga wrote:
So your teammate received 3 invites and he joined only 2 games,
do you have different approach for your team and others?

And how will you figure out are the misses accidental or not?



I have the same approach for every team, regardless if its my team or not. I already stated that above.

I assume all misses are accidental. It doesn't make sense that anyone would purposely be missing. If they are purposely missing, they will need to explain why.

I'm with benga on this one... Your actions doesn't support your statements. Your teammate misses 1 invite and accepted 2 other in the same time. Can he or you explain that? If you cant will you replace him as you state in your previous messages?

VioIet wrote:Anyone with habitual misses will be replaced.

Can you define habitual misses? 3 in whole tournament, 6 or more... For example over 60% of my games in round 1 didn't started on time and yet no one hasn't been even warned.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:44 am

GoranZ wrote:I'm with benga on this one... Your actions doesn't support your statements. Your teammate misses 1 invite and accepted 2 other in the same time. Can he or you explain that? If you cant will you replace him as you state in your previous messages?


Lol, I'm sure it was accidental. He probably didn't come online in time and missed one of them.


GoranZ wrote:Can you define habitual misses? 3 in whole tournament, 6 or more... For example over 60% of my games in round 1 didn't started on time and yet no one hasn't been even warned.


It was a different player who kept missing in all of your games. Habitual misses will be when the same player misses time and time again. Nobody did anything wrong, so no warnings are necessary.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby GoranZ on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:54 pm

VioIet wrote:
GoranZ wrote:I'm with benga on this one... Your actions doesn't support your statements. Your teammate misses 1 invite and accepted 2 other in the same time. Can he or you explain that? If you cant will you replace him as you state in your previous messages?


Lol, I'm sure it was accidental. He probably didn't come online in time and missed one of them.

Amazing explanation, I bet even little kids wont believe you lol

Lets see what numbers say. Times are in CET...
2012-09-19 03:14:43 - Game 11649995 has been initialized
2012-09-19 07:14:37 - Game 11649993 has been initialized

Games started with 4 hours difference which mean your teammate was on at least twice that day(assuming he accepted the invites last).

VioIet wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Can you define habitual misses? 3 in whole tournament, 6 or more... For example over 60% of my games in round 1 didn't started on time and yet no one hasn't been even warned.


It was a different player who kept missing in all of your games. Habitual misses will be when the same player misses time and time again. Nobody did anything wrong, so no warnings are necessary.

I will repeat the question: Can you define habitual misses? preferably with precise number.
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Re: Violet's Das Schloss Trips Tourney [16/16] FULL

Postby VioIet on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:58 am

GoranZ wrote:
Lets see what numbers say. Times are in CET...
2012-09-19 03:14:43 - Game 11649995 has been initialized
2012-09-19 07:14:37 - Game 11649993 has been initialized

Games started with 4 hours difference which mean your teammate was on at least twice that day(assuming he accepted the invites last).


He may not have been the last to join. Also how can you say he logged on twice that day? Couldn't he be online for over four hours at a time? There could be a million probable reasons why he missed. If you want to know why he missed his invite, you should ask him. That would take all the guesswork out of it. While you're at it, maybe you can also explain why you missed your invite as well.

GoranZ wrote:I will repeat the question: Can you define habitual misses?


I will repeat my answer:
Habitual misses will be when the same player misses time and time again.

GoranZ wrote:Preferably with precise number:


time (1) + time (1) + again (1) = 3

I say three misses in a row, without good cause will most likely result in replacement.
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