War & Peace (Winner: mr_chopper)

Tournaments completed in 2013

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Re: War & Peace

Postby grady12345 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:39 pm

In with Sardinia please.
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Re: War & Peace (10/16)

Postby wookie1 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Oki, good good..
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Re: War & Peace (10/16)

Postby rgrjoey001 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:05 pm

in please ... italy
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Re: War & Peace (10/16)

Postby srdjoni on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:55 pm

In, please... wherever ;)
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Re: War & Peace (12/16)

Postby giannikas on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:25 am

Swiss Confederation, please.
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Re: War & Peace (12/16)

Postby curiousone1 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:09 am

Hi. Looks like fun (and perhaps mayhem!)
Prussia if possible
Thx for setting up and the fun scoring

Curious
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Re: War & Peace (12/16)

Postby BIGBLOO on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:21 am

I'll have a bash. Conf of Rhine Please. Nothing like being on the front line and dying in glorious fashion
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Re: War & Peace (15/16)

Postby Wizz00 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:34 am

In please, wherever is left
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Re: War & Peace (15/16)

Postby Hugiboo on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:51 pm

Excellent, the roster is full. Games should be starting soon.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:23 pm

The question was asked: "Does the points scoring only happen at the end of the game?"

The answer is yes, points are counted at the end of the game.
Last edited by Hugiboo on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Another question:

"how is the winning faction on a map worked out? is the winning faction anybody in the same team as the games winner? or is it the faction with the most regions?"

The winning faction is determined by the winner of the game. The exception is that Neutrals are essentially each their own faction. When planning the scoring, I expected that the winner of the game would tend to dominate the map, so the effect of having one player dominate but an opposing player win (because of troop count) was an unexpected side effect of the 20 round limit. This will have to be addressed in the future, but I don't think it is right to make rule changes during the tournament, so it will have to remain this way for this tournament.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby protogenitor on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:45 am

Can we get a score update?
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:33 pm

I'll be updating the standings & sending the next 4 game invites sometime in the next 2-3 days. I'm moving on Saturday, so this week & Christmas is going to be a bit crazy for me; but I'll get it done. In the meantime, are there any suggestions for rule modifications for future installments of this tourney or one like it? This is my first tournament, so it's been a learning experience; but I'm planning to do another one like this & eventually I would like to try it with a few other maps. I've already had some good suggestions & I've noticed a number of things that should be different myself. I'll start a list here:

Planned Changes
- no fog (easier for diplomacy & makes the games more interesting to me)
- sequential turn order (freestyle makes for fast games - which is why I used it - but adds an unfair element; you are punished for having a life & not sitting on the computer waiting for your turn)
- should include connected empire for losing faction
- should not encourage players to lose game to take advantage of extra points available to losing faction


Is there anything else you've noticed? Did the rules make the game feel balanced? Does it seem like certain country choices or factions have a greater advantage or handicap?
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby protogenitor on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:08 am

One thing I noticed was that with the current rules your not working with your Allies but against them because you are competing with them for places for the next round more than with the opposing faction.

i think the battle fields and sea battles should score points if your faction wins or loses the game to make them more important.

A good way to encourage the factions to fight would be to make it so that you score points for holding an opposing factions country (1/3 of the points value, same as they lose?).

In the current system your home country isn't worth enough in points to make it a high priority in the game. I'd personnaly have your home country score 3-5 times its bonus value to make it really worth crossing the whole map for.

Personnally I'd not give people a set country for all games. I'd give them out randomly per round. Then make it so that the the top scoring people (plus the Immunity winners) go through no matter what faction they are in. Then in the next round hand out new countries again.

Just a few thoughts, they may not be any good but I thought I'd share anyway. :)
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:06 pm

protogenitor wrote:One thing I noticed was that with the current rules your not working with your Allies but against them because you are competing with them for places for the next round more than with the opposing faction.

i think the battle fields and sea battles should score points if your faction wins or loses the game to make them more important.

A good way to encourage the factions to fight would be to make it so that you score points for holding an opposing factions country (1/3 of the points value, same as they lose?).

In the current system your home country isn't worth enough in points to make it a high priority in the game. I'd personnaly have your home country score 3-5 times its bonus value to make it really worth crossing the whole map for.

Personnally I'd not give people a set country for all games. I'd give them out randomly per round. Then make it so that the the top scoring people (plus the Immunity winners) go through no matter what faction they are in. Then in the next round hand out new countries again.

Just a few thoughts, they may not be any good but I thought I'd share anyway. :)
I didn't want to make the alliances too tight; it's not really a team game. A little bit of backstabbing is an important part of diplomacy (though I don't advise breaking promises). The main reasons for competing within your own faction for a spot in the next round were 1) to maintain balance in case one faction had an unfair advantage & 2) to maintain a balance between Napoleon vs Coalition & Neutral teams in the 2nd round. Perhaps a greater incentive than sharing their country bonus is needed.

For the battle fields & sea battles, I agree. I was worried that the winning faction would rack up so many points, that I used the battles to give the losing side something if they could manage to get some. However, since the games only go to 20 rounds & it's trench (which I think works well as a way to encourage strategic point grabbing - just that there are some bugs in the point system), the "losing faction" doesn't seem to need as much help as I expected.

I also think increasing the home country's value would be a good way to get people to go for it, but there needs to be balance between the 5 value ones & the 1 value ones. Maybe a "point value + x" would be more appropriate so as not to widen the value too much. I favour selecting one's preferred country over random assignment. Some other possibilities are allowing trades (maybe too complicated), or allowing players who have eliminated someone to claim that country as a second or maybe more bonus country (this would have to be done carefully as it would tend to encourage elimination). It could be done with no starting territories, then whatever is held is claimed & can be taken away... I wish I could do 16 player tourney, it would make things much simpler.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:41 am

Ok, invites are sent. Last time I randomized the players, but this time I just grouped them by their factions. I don't think this will cause any problems, but it should make it a little easier to keep track of who's in your faction.

Merry Christmas everyone!

*Edit* Of course it won't cause any problems, it's freestyle not sequential. Duh.
Last edited by Hugiboo on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:45 pm

The question was asked; if you achieve victory conditions before the 20 turn limit, do you get credited with "elimination" for all your enemies.

The answer is no. It's technically not elimination, & not what I had in mind for that bonus, plus it would be a penalty to get credited with eliminating your allies, if you have them. I will consider adding a bonus for victory before 20 rounds in future tourneys because it is a significant achievement.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:49 am

By the way, I might not be able to get the scores updated for a week or 2. We moved just before Christmas & it will take a while to clear a path through all the boxes & set up my desktop. I will most likely wait at least until games 5-8 are all complete.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:03 pm

Hey all, sorry about the long delay. I was hoping to get the new house relatively unpacked enough to get the new scores up closer to the end of the games. Anyway, I found my computer & carved a space for it from the surrounding boxes. Since the game chats have been archived, I will post game results here:

Game 5:
BIGBLOO: 4
Wizz00: 4
giannikas: 4
HOWITZERHAL: 8
curiousone1: 2
J-Bone: 16
Loose Canon: 12 (winner)
grady12345: 21

Game 6:
caesarmik: -1
donelladan: -1
rgrjoey001: 0
srdjoni: 3
protogenitor: 3
whydelilah: 7
AdamKeith: 13 (winner)
mr_chopper: 7

Game 7:
Wizz00: 7
giannikas: 0
srdjoni: 6
HOWITZERHAL: 2
curiousone1: 4 (winner)
whydelilah: 1
Loose Canon: 1
AdamKeith: 0

Game 8:
caesarmik: 8
BIGBLOO: 3
donelladan: 11 (winner)
rgrjoey001: 4
protogenitor: -1
J-Bone: -1
grady12345: 1
mr_chopper: 0
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm

wookie1 has replaced whydelilah, representing UK.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:11 pm

Pressure is on in the immunity games; there is a marked difference in communication.

Update on ideas for tweaking tournament

Planned Changes
1. sequential turn order (freestyle makes for fast games - which is why I used it - but adds an unfair element; you are punished for having a life & not sitting on the computer waiting for your turn)
2. should include connected empire for losing faction
3. should not encourage players to lose game to take advantage of extra points available to losing faction
4. revise points for holding battle sites to not encourage losing the game to advance in the tournament
5. revise points for holding own country to increase incentive to try to hold it

Possible Changes
6. no fog (easier for diplomacy & makes the games more interesting to me)
- I'm having second thoughts about this - one benefit of fog is that it is hard to know who is going to win based on troop count; which is bound to be the determining factor in most games with a 20 round limit; and I think the 20 round limit is important because otherwise games will go forever, & also it gives the losers a chance to stay alive & get points. Any thoughts on whether this would be a good change or not?
7. greater/different incentive to help "allies" than sharing country bonus and/or revise scoring so not directly competing with allies for advancement placement
8. allowing trading regions or benefits to holding other regions and/or eliminating other players - would have to be handled carefully so as not to get ridiculously complicated - not sure this would work - possibly starting without home region & claiming by holding the region.

Any other ideas or comments on the above?
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby Hugiboo on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:54 am

I was just updating the scores for round 9 when I noticed an anomaly in my data; the total for each game didn't equal the total score for some players. It turns out, moving the lines around for ranking purposes ended up messing up my list of scores for each game. Since I couldn't tell if there were any mistakes, I re-checked each game & found a few minor errors in my calculations. The only one that seems to affect the rankings is for curiousone1; I appear to have counted battle sites in a game that you won, where they were not eligible to be counted. The result is that you've moved from 1st in the Coalition to 4th. I'm sorry, unless you beat wookie & get at least 3 points in your last game, it looks like you will be eliminated. On the other hand, wookie or protogenitor will be advancing now, when they otherwise would have been unfairly eliminated.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby curiousone1 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:48 pm

Argh. The scoring system is a wee bit complex - which is ok. But difficult to assess where we are at. Looks like I need to win the immunity game!

Thanks for the update - and also for organizing the tourney.
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby wookie1 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:04 am

so, which players will go through here?
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Re: War & Peace (Ongoing)

Postby merch313 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:26 pm

Tourney active
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