Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby orangenitrox on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:39 am

I'm all in on the girl-fights! :shock: :lol:

Seriously, rock on with it...a ladies tourney is a very cool thing!

-Nitrox
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby jsnyder748 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:40 am

Calm down there people. Lx brings up a point and certainly there are pros and cons to adding this new feature to tournaments. I personally think that if a tournament restricting others were to ever be made again it would certainly have to have positive feedback and have a purpose to it.

Daze's tournament definitely had positive feedback and a purpose (give the women of cc their own fun little tournament). If a tourny were to ever be made again with restrictions outside of the norms I.e. points, turns taken percentage, etc. Then we should have guidelines for how the tournament should be handled.

Some topics will always be too controversal and should be kept out with good reason, but we should give this a chance and set up some rules.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby MrPipes on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:44 am

I think there is bright-line between inclusive vs exclusive groups that the policy could easily cover that does not lend itself to discrimination. I think a Girls only Tourney is a great idea that is intended to bring clearly a minority group into the spotlight and feel a bit more welcomed. Other ideas would be a Newbies tourney would be fun for new folks. I get that some folk like to talk tough but that does offend some so there could be NoHoldsBarred Tourney where you truly attempt to crawl under the opponent skin to rattle their strategy...but the rules need to be clear going in...The purpose is to be inclusive of like minded souls not exclusive. There is no way to make it fair...to say anything goes will offend some but others may not want to be part of it...in the long run...it is good for CC. Would getting more women to join CC in a way that made them feel more welcome be good for CC...I would say yes. Would a tourney that was for Blue Eyed White Males only be good for CC...likely not. So there is no hard fast rule that can be applied...but cc does need to evolve and grow. I can see a Male vs Female tourney being a fun thing too. We'll...those are my thoughts for today...Cheers to all! -pipes
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby Great-Ollie on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:52 am

Seriously guys chill out, relax, let the fine ladies on the site have their tourney and as many tourneys for ladies as they may see fit. I don't blame them one bit for wanting this with all the ego's flouting around this site when it comes to the male gender. It is suppose to be a fun site for males and females, so if the ladies feel like they may have more fun in a all ladies tourney, power to them. Heck i may start an all ladies tourney and run it for them just to prove a point lol. Good luck ladies, let me know if i can help out in any way.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby safariguy5 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:55 am

Is Lx afraid of setting a precedent about handing out medals? Honestly, I think the tournaments are more about friendly competition and maybe a little smack talking than medals. If there is no malicious intent and everyone is just out to have fun, I see no problem with allowing the tourney.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby Denise on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:56 am

While I appreciate the male gallantry and all the support shown to Dazey's tournament, I think that most of you are missing the point. Lx has already said that he has no problem with the exception being made for Dazey's tournament. What we need to be concerned about is setting a precedent, or changing the rules, to make gender specific tournaments freely allowed at all times. That would (or at least could) lead to discriminatory tournaments. I know if I went to the tournament page and saw a trips tournament on a map I loved, but it was for males only, I would not be happy about it. Sure there are lots of tournaments to choose from, but we need to make sure to keep it so as much as possible. The requirements that are now allowed do not discriminate, because anyone can become an officer, become a clan member, improve their rating, etc. The difference here is that if someone can't change their gender, race, etc., it should not be easy to make that a tournament requirement.

Dazey, I'm really glad you saw this through and were able to get it approved. I had no idea there were as many women playing the game as there are, and your tournament has brought them out to the tournament scene and our ladies group, so thanks. I think the right decision was made when an exception was made for you.

That said, I agree with Lx. The rules should not be changed, but exceptions made when appropriate.

MrPipes wrote:I think there is bright-line between inclusive vs exclusive groups that the policy could easily cover that does not lend itself to discrimination. I think a Girls only Tourney is a great idea that is intended to bring clearly a minority group into the spotlight and feel a bit more welcomed. Other ideas would be a Newbies tourney would be fun for new folks. I get that some folk like to talk tough but that does offend some so there could be NoHoldsBarred Tourney where you truly attempt to crawl under the opponent skin to rattle their strategy...but the rules need to be clear going in...The purpose is to be inclusive of like minded souls not exclusive. There is no way to make it fair...to say anything goes will offend some but others may not want to be part of it...in the long run...it is good for CC. Would getting more women to join CC in a way that made them feel more welcome be good for CC...I would say yes. Would a tourney that was for Blue Eyed White Males only be good for CC...likely not. So there is no hard fast rule that can be applied...but cc does need to evolve and grow. I can see a Male vs Female tourney being a fun thing too. We'll...those are my thoughts for today...Cheers to all! -pipes


That's very well stated, and I agree completely. =D>
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby HardAttack on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:03 am

I understand the point of Daze here, i know daze little bir personally as well and there is no little harshy side in her mind with this plan/thought of her on her creation and shape of the tourney.
However, denise makes very nice points in her post, namely what if a woman around to see a torunament only for men ? Wudnt it any make women around angry/nervous ? Yes sure it wud do. Of very course, daze's intentions are positive, i have got no little doubt, but this is a creation of a rule gap, or say a gap to be spoiled and to create further problems afterwards.
Discussing this only around daze, and her tourney is wrong but should be looked at the matter a bit more widely.
Lx is not stating his any in favor or against side for the daze's tournament but SHOULD be well understood that he is talking about policies and what such an approval wud come with in the future.
Finally, daze's idea is great, but i am against on it. I know the dilemma in my statement, but sometimes we have to avoid from even great ideas for potential future harrases and bad uses.
Sorry daze but my thoughts at the end.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby MrPanzerGeneral on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:45 am

I personally would like to see this site refrain from making ANYTHING gender, race, sexuality, religion, and even (or perhaps...most of all), "nationality" based....that said, I don't see any real difference from a tourney being run only for say.......Males ...from one that is only for Fascist Sodomitic Red-Indian Horse Whisperers.....the principle is the same.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby swimmerdude99 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:11 am

Denise wrote:Sure there are lots of tournaments to choose from, but we need to make sure to keep it so as much as possible. The requirements that are now allowed do not discriminate, because anyone can become an officer, become a clan member, improve their rating, etc. The difference here is that if someone can't change their gender, race, etc., it should not be easy to make that a tournament requirement.


I understand and respect your opinion here Denise but one argument I don't think is solid is the comparison. As has been stated before though, you can create an tournament that is EXACTLY the same, so as far as I see... its not a real issue to limit female tournaments, I think they should always have to request approval but in general I think they will help strengthen the community not damage it. Male-only tournies seem unfair because women are in the definite minority on this site, so it wouldn't seem to be fair to me.

Denise wrote:That said, I agree with Lx. The rules should not be changed, but exceptions made when appropriate.


+1
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby malevolous on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:16 am

I know there are already some tournaments restricted based on score, and that has to be frustrating to some people, so a bunch of gender specific tournaments might also be frustrating. At the same time, I think people should be allowed to have fun, and if fun for them is an exclusive tournament, I don't see any problem with it. As long as they don't get too offensive, or take up half the tournaments, I don't see why there should even be a restriction.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby PROFITS on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:21 am

I don't have any problem with these women going at it as long as I can watch :mrgreen:
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby dazerazer on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:23 am

We do not have usergroups allowed based on race. We do not have user groups allowed based on religion. We do have approved usergroups which are region specific and an approved usergroup which is gender specific. CC is a world in and of itself. We create our own rules here. The fate of the REAL world is not at stake here. The statistical minorities and majorities of the human race do not apply here. The male to female ratio on CC is not 1.02/1 as it is in the real world. Recognizing and respecting that is OKAY.
How much you want for Daze? (Culs De Sac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:33 pm)
She's priceless, Culs. ;-P (MudPuppy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:46 pm)
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby Serbia on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:10 pm

dazerazer wrote:We do not have user groups allowed based on religion.


Jesus Freaks "We Are Proud Players of Conquer Club And Proud To Follow Christ"
The Godless Heathens "A usergroup for Atheists/Agnostics."

There's two. But of course, beside the point.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby squishyg on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Hey look, a minority wants something! Let's create rules to make it harder for them to get what they want! In the interest of fairness, naturally.
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Re: Gender-Specific Tournaments, what's the next step?

Postby barterer2002 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:34 pm

I've missed the conversation here and I apologize.

The question Lindax raises is not whether women should be allowed to have their own tournament but rather any group should based on anything other than merit. The general rule of tournaments is that at least have the slots have to be open to the CC community as a whole although there is a caveat that they can put rank limits in (and even that is limited so we can't have a Col only tournament).

CC policy has always specifically denied the abilty for in clan tournaments, private friend tournaments etc for the reason that tournaments are intended to be inclusive and fun for the entire community.

There are some here who have advocated that women should be able to have "their own tournament" and even a few more who say we should create tournaments on any basis (Jewish, Catholic, whatever). I see this as a slippery slope. As any society we draw lines where we as a community wish them to be but the problem with them is when we draw them in the wrong place. When we allow a minority grouping to create a specified exception to a rule we create a precedence for a majority to exclude that same minority in the future. Those that look at this issue and say "why can't girls have a tournament" are clearly missing that point. Its not about that, its about the society we have here on CC and the rules we want to live under.

Those who attack Lindax personally are wrong to do so as he is raising a point that should be raised. Those who say that this is an attack on women or a male/female thing are being foolish as that certainly isn't the point either.
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