Operation Drug War [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Postby Telvannia on Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:42 am

yeti_c wrote:
edbeard wrote:At the moment, it IS possible to hold an objective on your first go.


It isn't actually - if you're dealt with an objective then the game will reset and deal again...

C.


I think you mean, if you hold all the objectives, the game redeals, otherwise AoR would not work, as the game would not let you start with a castle...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Telvannia
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:19 am
Medals: 10
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (1)

Postby mibi on Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:27 am

edbeard wrote:There are quite a few rules to read. But, once that is done it shouldn't be too hard to follow.

I'm surprised by you not being able to know what attacks what. Borders are shown and anything that is different from normal is explained in the rules.


If you 'miss' an objective, I don't know what to say. If players take a minute to read what they are and see where they are, they should notice that each side (left, right, top, and bottom) have their own objective. With these 'rules heavy' maps (like DiM's maps (hope he doesn't mind me lumping myself into a category with him!)), you do need to do a bit more reading than other maps, but at the same time once you have done so, it all becomes very simple.


The difference between this and DiM's maps is that on AoM, AoR, only the bonuses are confusing and require BOB. The movement is simple and the objectives are clear. With Drug War though, the movement, bonuses and objectives all require consideration from the player. Add it up and you have a trifecta of obfuscation. You can say that a player will have to take a few minutes to read over the legend a few times but you are then selling the map and its popularity short.

Keep in mind the most successful restaurant in Los Angeles is Pink;s Hotdogs.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

Postby yeti_c on Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm

Telvannia wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
edbeard wrote:At the moment, it IS possible to hold an objective on your first go.


It isn't actually - if you're dealt with an objective then the game will reset and deal again...

C.


I think you mean, if you hold all the objectives, the game redeals, otherwise AoR would not work, as the game would not let you start with a castle...


"An Objective" is the whole objective - I didn't say "an objective territory"

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Postby edbeard on Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:05 pm

umm most territories are starting neutral guys. It is IMPOSSIBLE to actually start with an objective. Oaktown was worried about the ease of gaining an objective. I was saying that it IS possible to hold that specific objective AFTER your first turn. However, by adding more neutrals to the main stash, that problem would be solved.


I dunno. It's hard for me to see all this stuff as that complicated. As I said, I'll try to get the wording to be more concise. That might help qwell some of your concerns.


There are no borders missing. Maybe you can explain what is confusing you specifically? Actually, perhaps it'd be better to just wait until I update.

One thing that might help would be making the Patrol part of the sector, in that, they are treated like all the other territories. Currently they connect to seemingly non-adjacent territories in their own sector.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby edbeard on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:19 am

Image


I hope this clears things up a bit


1. Made patrol cars into a normal territory inside the sector. no more rules attached to how they work inside a sector. So, hopefully this is clear from the lame graphics update I made.

2. Made patrol cars only able to attack each other up down left right.

3. Changed the legend to be more readable (hopefully).
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:42 am

good feedback so far on the latest version.......


Annnyway, I was sending messages with the artist back and forth


There's an obvious spacing issue and with the graphics it also presents a 'hard to get territory borders in' issue.

So, the artist (I won't presume to name him or show his art (although that might spark interest?)), suggested that all territories in the sector border each other. A couple territories would need special rules regarding this, but that's not too pressing at the moment.

I'd honestly prefer the setup as it is currently, but I'm trying to be open to everything and if there are no objections, it seems like a good route to follow.


I guess some issues would be if it would make the games too fast. The muscle territories which had acted as a buffer before are now almost useless in some cases. But, this could be worked around with bonuses to provide incentive.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby yeti_c on Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:09 am

I dislike that I'm afraid - I reckon that would make it too open!

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:15 am

Edbeard, I have to admit that this map doesn't grab me and make me want to play...

... Having said that, I've had a hard think about it, and I'm not sure that you should have the Patrol cars as starting points... Most people will be in the corner segments with no direct access to 'objective' territories - and anybody who starts with a Patrol car in the North, South, East or West (particularly the one next to the Driver in the North) has a major advantage towards securing the objective.

On another note, you could perhaps clear up the Patrol Car attack routes by having a picture of a car on the road (next to the Patrol Car territory), with attack lines linking the appropriate cars.
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7050
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Postby fumandomuerte on Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:45 pm

What about inserting an alley? They always appear on gangstas movies with the dealers runing from the police.

I like the idea, drugs are a real social issue, specially on this side of America (USA-Mexico border).

Go on.
Image
Thanks to the CC staff for the perma-ban on ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩!
User avatar
Captain fumandomuerte
 
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:27 am
Location: The Cinderella of the Pacific
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (3) Map Contribution (1) General Contribution (2)

Postby redorangeyellow on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:32 pm

babinecz wrote:i live in baltimore, nothin cool about this shit


i live in baltimore too. and you shouldn't really joke around with this
Cook redorangeyellow
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:55 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:48 pm

first of all, we're not joking around with anything. it is a serious subject, and we're not making light of that. But, at the same time it's just a CC map.


Image

here is the map with graphics. Thanks Telvannia!


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined.


To Do:

1. Legend sprucing up.

Ideas: maybe a police type background for it? Red-white-Blue title maybe.

ideas here would be helpful

2. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

3. spare territory

Oops. This should be part of the muscle territory for that area.

4. labels

need to put the labels on the sectors so people can distinguish doubly named territories. EG: SW stash, NE junkie etc..

5. Army circles for specific territories

For the territories that have connections we make unique army circles. It serves as a subliminal reminder of what was said in the legend.

detective - lieutenant each maybe is a badge
attorney - prosecutor each maybe is a square/book shape
garage - driver not sure of a good symbol here. ideas?
Last edited by edbeard on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby Sir. Ricco on Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:51 pm

Maybe the patrol could bombard the junkies. Just a thought.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Captain Sir. Ricco
 
Posts: 4680
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Making kingdoms burn and bloodshed start.
Medals: 53
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (31)

Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:40 pm

Sir. Ricco wrote:Maybe the patrol could bombard the junkies. Just a thought.


well since they are directly connected in the four borders, this isn't possible.



Soooo, I'm trying to think how many neutrals to start on certain territories.

We could just go with the standard 3 on all of them but I don't think that makes sense.

I think we want to encourage going after bonuses so maybe put 2 neutrals on every territory except for any involved in an objective. These could have 4 or 6 and the Main Stash could have 6 or 8.



One thing about the bonuses, I had intended the junkie+stash, counter+runner+stash and Boss+muscle bonuses to ONLY work inside a corner. So, this will be clarified soon.


But, since there are muscle throughout the map, do we want a Muscle bonus? At the moment the only incentive to get them is if you hold the Boss in that corner, or if you hold the Leader or 2nd. Maybe Muscle could have a +4 for 5 bonus or something? Or, a +2 for any 3?
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby Coleman on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:27 pm

The questions I'm seeing now are ones I think should be discussed in main foundry. Off you go. :D

Image
User avatar
Sergeant Coleman
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Midwest
Medals: 25
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2)
Training Achievement (1) Map Contribution (6) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (2)

Postby Unit_2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:34 pm

Do we really need a "Drug Wars" map?
Image
User avatar
Private 1st Class Unit_2
 
Posts: 1988
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:59 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, U.S.A, North America, Earth, Milky Way, Universe.
Medals: 10
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Postby Coleman on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:37 pm

Unit_2 wrote:Do we really need a "Drug Wars" map?
Well he had enough discussion. *shrugs*

The gameplay is different, and it's a unique theme. I'm sure there are people here (especially outside the foundry) that would like it.
User avatar
Sergeant Coleman
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Midwest
Medals: 25
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2)
Training Achievement (1) Map Contribution (6) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (2)

Postby Kaplowitz on Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:38 pm

Unit_2 there's also mibi's prison map which looks awesome.
Image
User avatar
Private 1st Class Kaplowitz
 
Posts: 3088
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: Doin' it for da lulz.
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)

Postby edbeard on Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:01 pm

Do we really need any of the maps we make here? No. But, we make them to have fun playing a game.


There are no 'Objective Oriented' maps out there. Yes a few maps do have objectives, but honestly I don't think any of them are directing their gameplay towards winning via objective. I think this map does.


thanks for the move, Coleman. Hopefully we get some gameplay discussion going!
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby edbeard on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:37 pm

Well, it took me a while to get through all these comments. Sorry it took so long for me to respond.

I've decided to add the What you need to know comment to my post above. In the future, this will go on every update. Additionally, I will edit that post (and possibly the OP of the thread) with any ideas that we are considering and/or implementing that have come from the thread. Maybe even include ideas that we are not considering just so people know. That way people can't complain about not reading the whole thread to see where the map is going.



Anyway, the more I think about it, the more 2 neutrals on all the non-starting territories makes sense. 4 neutrals will go on the 'objective' territories (eg: Judge, Detective) and 6 neutrals will go on the Main Stash.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:56 pm

I'm in the camp that isn't too crazy about this idea, but I'll suck it up and look at gameplay. :)

Thanks for the info in the first post, edbeard. I haven't read the entire thread in quite a while, so I'm going off of what's in the initial post.

Right now I'm wondering how you are going to clarify what the bonuses are for. Supply? Vacant? Corner?

I know it wasn't intentional, but the gameplay is very similar to DiM's Mogul map - unpassable streets, connection through phones/subways on corners. Visually, DiM's map has more going for it, so you may want to come up with something to set this one apart.
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Postby edbeard on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:06 pm

well I made this map before DiM's so it definitely wasn't intentional! Anyway, I don't see any connection between the maps other than both being in the city.

I forgot to add the "To Do" stuff to the first post. If you scroll up this page to where the update is you'll see that the Supply, Vacants, Corners need to be labeled.


There's nothing else, in my mind, that this maps needs to 'set itself apart.' Tweaking is obviously necessary though. Ideas are always welcome, but I think other than discussion of bonuses, number of starting neutrals, and possibly some territory arrangement, that's all the gameplay needs.



Also, a suggestion about what you do if I may. I know that reading the first post is what you generally do, but maybe take the time to look at the last update post (which almost every thread indicates in the title). It can be frustrating when people come in to comment and they've read the first post but not the last update. Sure, they should be similar but at the same time it doesn't hurt to look!
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:49 pm

edbeard wrote:Also, a suggestion about what you do if I may. I know that reading the first post is what you generally do, but maybe take the time to look at the last update post (which almost every thread indicates in the title). It can be frustrating when people come in to comment and they've read the first post but not the last update. Sure, they should be similar but at the same time it doesn't hurt to look!

Right, I generally try to read the most recent page or two of a thread in addition to the first post, just so I know what the current discussion is, but more often than not I miss things. So the only thing I can promise not to miss is what's in the first post.

I'm also doing marathon sessions of responding to posts, so if I got to this one late last week I might have been a bit blurry eyed. :shock: Ah, the good old days, when I could focus on two or three maps and keep up with the discussion!

Oh yeah, the map... It would be nice if there were some method of seeing who a particular territory can attack simply by looking at the map; a color scheme, labels, or some littel graphic maybe. If you're using BoB this won't be an issue, but for anybod not running BoB it won't be automatically intuitive that you have to defend the lieutenant from the detective, for example.

And while I'm nitpicking attack routes, can you better explain in the legend how the patrols connect?
Image
User avatar
Captain oaktown
 
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: majorcommand
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (12)
General Contribution (5)

Postby edbeard on Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:27 pm

maybe we can make the army circles for connected territories be the same. It kinda serves as a subliminal reminder of what was said in the legend.

detective - lieutenant each maybe is a badge
attorney - prosecutor each maybe is a uhhh not sure
garage - drive not sure again



As for the patrol cars connecting, I'm not sure how what I put isn't clear? Patrol cars connect vertically and horizontally by sector.

Frankly, I'm not sure how to explain that better without being very wordy. Part of having a good legend is being concise. Clarity is equally important. Obviously I'm being concise, but you have a problem with the clarity. Maybe you can explain further what isn't clear about it.
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby edbeard on Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:11 pm

Image


v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined.


Just done:

1. Legend spruced up a bit to be a police report/memo type of thing. Though the sector bonuses and the stick-up-man bonus need to be put back. Perhaps we'll list all the symbols that can attack each other in a row and state that territories with same symbols can attack each other so that there's space for the sector bonuses to be listed.

2. Sector Labels added. I think they hide too much of the art. So, hopefully we can have another go, at this style, or perhaps a new style.

3. Symbols added to signify movement possibilities. EG: phone symbols and police car etc...

Also, we made all police cars connected to avoid confusion.

4. Changed the title to signify the police aspect more.



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. labels

redo to make the art underneath more visible. or perhaps a different style

3. figure out neutral values

4. finish art on all territories
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Postby mibi on Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:58 pm

the kerning on the A's is messed up.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stealth99

Login