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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:04 am

mailed the mighty wicked to ask for it to be merged owen, just for you
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:07 am

Thanks wacicha, still learning about this forum....and how.
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Postby jiminski on Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:42 am

owenshooter wrote:i want a poll, damnit!!! where is the poll!! a guy as clever as you are, and you can't figure out how to add a poll?!! get with it fruity!!!-0


Agreed!


Personally i instinctively don;t like the idea but you make some good points.

For me it would mean that a good lump of the emotion and drama would be taken out of the game.
Imagine Formula one without the crashes! Sheese that would be like watching pants go around in a washing machine.

Imagine in Football if every decision, in every game were correct and decided by flawless computers which measured every movement.
It would take away a huge portion of the injustice which keeps us all talking in pubs and coming back for more. The game requires a good but imperfect referee. Our 'Random' dice serve as our flawed adjudicator.


The element of luck keeps the best players trying and the worst interested.
If people wanted purely a battle of unadulterated wits, CC would stand for Chess Club!
The dice act as a cushion to soften the acceptance of our intellectual inadequacies and a brake on our cognitive bravura.

In short by taking away the dice you fundamentally alter the dynamics and essence of the game.

love,
jim
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Postby yeti_c on Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:48 am

Right here's a question...

If both sides lose the same amount of armies - what happens when it's 2 or 3 vs 1...

Who wins?

C.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:00 am

Worst idea ever.
"Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill."

Duane: You know what they say about love and war.
Tim: Yes, one involves a lot of physical and psychological pain, and the other one's war.
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Postby jiminski on Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:14 am

I am all for it!

that way when it is merged i can't be wrong!
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Postby BaldAdonis on Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:28 am

Fruitcake wrote:have you played a no dice game?

Yeah, all the time, right after I play tic-tac-toe, connect four, and my other favourite predetermined games. Then I pick up a rock and drop it to see if it will fall: I still think someday it won't.
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Postby insomniacdude on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:12 am

Audax wrote:
Why is this in GD?
It's been discussed 2034804823 times, and people don't believe it should be implemented because it cuts away from the actual "Risk" aspect of the game.


Apart from the obviously silly number which has nothing positive, I fail to undertstand hwo you can say this. How many threads appear on this forum about the dice????????


Based on your low post count I'm going to assume that you don't check the forums a whole lot.

I've seen more threads about dice then on any other subject even kind-of sort-of maybe relevant to CC.
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Postby BaldAdonis on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:13 am

insomniacdude wrote:Based on your low post count I'm going to assume that you don't check the forums a whole lot.

I've seen more threads about dice then on any other subject even kind-of sort-of maybe relevant to CC.

(Pssst... I think that's his point)
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Postby insomniacdude on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:18 am

BaldAdonis wrote:
insomniacdude wrote:Based on your low post count I'm going to assume that you don't check the forums a whole lot.

I've seen more threads about dice then on any other subject even kind-of sort-of maybe relevant to CC.

(Pssst... I think that's his point)


Shush you. :x
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Postby BaldAdonis on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:20 am

insomniacdude wrote:
BaldAdonis wrote:
insomniacdude wrote:Based on your low post count I'm going to assume that you don't check the forums a whole lot.

I've seen more threads about dice then on any other subject even kind-of sort-of maybe relevant to CC.

(Pssst... I think that's his point)


Shush you. :x

Quick~ Edit everything so no one will know.
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:30 am

Fruitcake wrote:
a simple answer: NO

the dice are the heart of the game, it wouldn't be fun anymore if there wasn't a sort of risk to it, and what would you do in cases like 11 vs 10, i won a roll like this without losing any armies with you solution it would have resulted in losing all my armies. but what about the crazy attack: 20 vs 33? 5 vs 9?

I disagree, dice are not at the heart of the game, strategy is.
your examples:
11v10, that is why strategy would be more important.
20v33? 5vs9, I think the pertinant word is 'crazy'


Actually,the pertinent word is RISK!
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Sorry Fruitcake

Postby THE ARMY on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:39 am

You are an awesome dude Fruitcake and a brilliant man, BUT i have to say no. As much as those dice have been little pieces of dog $#!T and horse $#!T and cow $#!T and poo and stupid little guys that i absolutely hate cuz it seems i get screwed so many times and aaahhhhhhh, i just hate those little things! I have to say revise it a bit, the no dice game is a thought but it would be too simple as soon as i thought about it i thought, "oh this would be a fair game, but then i said you know what no it wouldn't" it would be too simple to take over countries. It would be so easy to look at how many armies someone has on the board and map out victory, especially in an escalating game (where i got screwed by the dice so many times). It is a good idea but i think it need revising.
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Postby JACKAZZTJM on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:45 am

Give us a poll god dammit so we can run this idea into the ground i hate it dice are essential
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Postby JACKAZZTJM on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:50 am

mighty wicked?
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Postby volfan on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:52 am

How can you play Risk without dice? :? :? :? :? :?
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Postby jiminski on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:53 am

volfan wrote:How can you play Risk without dice? :? :? :? :? :?


you can't .. even virtual ones make the difference!
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Postby JACKAZZTJM on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:54 am

volfan wrote:How can you play Risk without dice? :? :? :? :? :?


You cant its a fruity idea
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:03 pm

yeti wrote:

Right here's a question...

If both sides lose the same amount of armies - what happens when it's 2 or 3 vs 1...

Who wins?

3 v 1 , both lose 1 so the victor is the attacker, however, at this point there is only 1 left on each territory (the attacking territory and territory just taken)

2 v 1 would not claim the territory, it is the one impossibility as there would then be a territory with 1 army and the other with none.
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Postby yeti_c on Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:07 pm

Fruitcake wrote:yeti wrote:

Right here's a question...

If both sides lose the same amount of armies - what happens when it's 2 or 3 vs 1...

Who wins?

3 v 1 , both lose 1 so the victor is the attacker, however, at this point there is only 1 left on each territory (the attacking territory and territory just taken)

2 v 1 would not claim the territory, it is the one impossibility as there would then be a territory with 1 army and the other with none.


But for 3v1 - that would essentially (In old school money) be 2 attacks... first one would lose - second one would win?

C.
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Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:14 pm

This would completely and fundamentally alter the game. It might be fun (maybe?) but wouldn't be Risk or even one of the CC-like spin offs.


Also, most of the bellyacking about dice is about 2 other issues. 1. we tend to remember bad outcomes more than good ones (why? because, of course we all "should" win -- so a win just confirms our belief, but failures challange them) 2. it is easier to blame "dice" than to admit that our strategy (gasp) might not be the best. 3. It is easier to dismiss outcomes we don't like than to understand them. You could have a string of 50 losses,all based strictly on luck, but that doesn't mean the dice are fixed, it means you were the unlucky recipient of a random oddity.


If there is a real issue, the dice ad hoc group should find it and fix it. Taking out dice just isn't the answer.
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Postby reckedracing on Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:51 pm

whats the harm in adding it as an option?
i'd try it to see what its about
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:04 pm

I seem to have touched a nerve with some, but please remember, this is a suggestion to have an option, not a compulsory game.

I am not advocating, and never would, that those players who want to play with dice cannot do so. To stop someone doing what they want would be a most negative approach....wouldn't it?

I know of many people who play the board game without dice. It requires thought, planning and most of all strategy. Some play with cards, others don’t. Surely taking cards out of the game is reducing the element of luck…isn’t it?

Yes this might be considered ‘chess like’ by many, maybe there is the issue, I have always enjoyed chess and play it more than any other game. Games that require deep thought and use of the mind in planning and seeing things almost in a 3 dimensional way have always attracted me.

What I am saying is why stop those who would enjoy turning to a more strategic game and take out more of the element of luck.

I am certain there would be vociferous camps on both sides, some players I know regard this game with dice as nothing more than childs play, others say that the uncertainty of the dice adds a frisson of excitement. I am happy either way.

Returning to the 3v1 attack. Yes, this is an automatic takeover of the territory. The equation is always the attacker must have at least 2 more armies that the defender.

Taking this further. Suppose you had 3 territories (4, 4, 6) surrounding a single territory of 9. you attack with the first, taking 3 (leaving your single), you then attack with the second taking another 3 (again leaving a single on your territory) you are now left with an attacking territory of 6 (5 attackers) facing 3. You then both lose 3, the defender is taken, you have 1 on each territory.
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Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:32 pm

The basic issue isn't so much if this would be a fun option or not, it is whether this is a RISK option or if it is such a divergence as to be an entirely different game.


I, and it seems, a number of other folks, just don't think it qualifies as a RISK variation. I love and play Chess, and many, many other games, but I don't confuse them with Risk.

If CC expands to other game types .. then, sure. But for now, my opinion is that it just doesn't fit. Sorry.
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:02 pm


I, and it seems, a number of other folks, just don't think it qualifies as a RISK variation.


Quite right too. That is the great thing, but it seems others agree with my thoughts.
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