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Postby lord voldemort on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:37 pm

id say connecting would be better...also more logical.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:39 am

oaktown wrote:welcome to the foundry, yet again. :)

Question - to get the mineral-port bonus, do you just have to hold the two territories, or do you have to connect them? Because connecting them would make more sense, as the idea is that you're getting the goods to the port, but there are many, many possible routes in which you could connect them.


1. Most of the port & mineral pairs only involve two stations.

2. There are a couple that have three stations, and one that has four stations.

What you say Oaktoiwn does make sense, but will that not throw the gampley out of balance.

Also.....consider this. This is a rail map, using trains.

While i initally agreed to it, i think in retrospect that having the ports connect is outside the realms of this map.

What does everyone think?
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Postby edbeard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:44 am

I'm not sure if you guys are on the same page.

This is my interpretation

1. Oaktown was wondering if players needed to 'connect' the ports to their Minerals by holding rail stations that make a line from Port to Mineral

2. cairswk thought he was talking about making the ports connect to each other?

I could be way off base but that's what I think you guys were talking about.

Either way, I don't like either of these ideas. 1. would be very difficult to do XML wise unless you specified the path. 2. is outside the realm of a 'rail' map
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:24 am

edbeard wrote:I'm not sure if you guys are on the same page.

This is my interpretation

1. Oaktown was wondering if players needed to 'connect' the ports to their Minerals by holding rail stations that make a line from Port to Mineral

2. cairswk thought he was talking about making the ports connect to each other?

I could be way off base but that's what I think you guys were talking about.

Either way, I don't like either of these ideas. 1. would be very difficult to do XML wise unless you specified the path. 2. is outside the realm of a 'rail' map


Well edbeard before everyone gets totally confused, he is what my intention was.

1. Several pages back someone suggested that ports should be able to attack each other. i.e TSV (Townsville) could attack DWN (Darwin) via an "implied" shipping route, not a rail route.

It is this in the legend that refers to "all ports connect" (to each other), even though it is not clearly spelt out....my bad, that will be fixed.

I think that is a bad idea as i stated it is outside the scope of this "rail" map.

2. I think the same coloured port/mineral pairs plus stations en route should be held for the that +1 bonus to be given.

This makes most of those pairs fairly easy to get, but as stated a couple have three stations and one has four stations....a little more difficult to get those few bonuses.
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Postby edbeard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:36 am

so you need to hold that direct path to get the bonus? In a couple places, it is possible to hold both the M and P territories AND connect them, but not via a direct path. Are you intending these NOT to count for a bonus?

I don't think you would be able to since the XML would probably be horrendous in a couple cases.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:11 pm

edbeard wrote:so you need to hold that direct path to get the bonus? In a couple places, it is possible to hold both the M and P territories AND connect them, but not via a direct path. Are you intending these NOT to count for a bonus?

I don't think you would be able to since the XML would probably be horrendous in a couple cases.


Edbeard, all port/mineral pairs will have the bonus, they are:

KTN(M)-DRW(P)
MTI(M)-TSV(P)
EMD(m)-MKY(p)
MRA(M)-GLS(p)
NEW(M)-PHL(P)
PAR(M)-DAM(p)
MLL(m)-GLT(p)
FRK(M)-NWC(P)
LEN(M)-ESP(P)+KLG
LHC(M)-WYL(P)+PGA
BKH(M)-SYD(P)+PRK+ORG

I thought those would have been clear by tthe colour codings on their symbols.

There is no difficult xml in this, not from my thinking anyways. :)
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Postby edbeard on Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:13 pm

I think you're misunderstanding me.


I was asking if you needed specific routes (which you have provided) because in some cases, you can connect the mineral and port without taking those paths which you have specified. But, I'm guessing you will write these paths onto a legend so there is no confusion.
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Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:39 pm

edbeard wrote:I think you're misunderstanding me.


I was asking if you needed specific routes (which you have provided) because in some cases, you can connect the mineral and port without taking those paths which you have specified. But, I'm guessing you will write these paths onto a legend so there is no confusion.


for the sake of three pairs, no they won't be written on the legend as i don't wan tthis map any more cluttered than it already is. The notation will prob be

coloured mineral & port pair stations plus stations en direct route +1
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Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:28 pm

Fellow Aussie Tieryn has offered to do the xml for this map, and it's OK by me.
Thanks Tieryn. :)

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Postby gimil on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:15 pm

Interested in RAIL AUSTRALIA?

Yes 63% [ 23 ]
No 36% [ 13 ]

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Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:01 am

cairnswk wrote:Fellow Aussie Tieryn has offered to do the xml for this map, and it's OK by me.
Thanks Tieryn. :)

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WARail BUN Bunbury
WARail PER Perth
WARail NHM Northam
WARail NRG Narrogin
WARail MRR Merredin
WARail GLT Geralton
WARail MLL Mullewa
WARail ESP Esperance
WARail KLG Kalgoorlie
WARail LEN Leonora
WARail LGA Loongana
WARail PAR Parabadoo
WARail DAM Dampier
WARail NEW Newman
WARail PHL Port Hedland
SARail COO Cook
SARail TCL Tarcoola
SARail OOD Oodnadatta (Need to change that code on mpa to MAI - Manguri)
SARail KGA Kulgera
SARail PGA Port Augusta
SARail LHC Leight Creek
SARail WYA Whyalla
SARail ADL Adelaide
SARail BDT Bordertown
VicRail MEL Melbourne
VicRail WBL Warnambool
VicRail BND Bairnsdale
VicRail ALB Albany
VicRail BGO Bendigo
VicRail MDA Mildura
TasRail LNC Launceston
TasRail HBT Hobart
NSWRail COO Need to change this Code on mpa to CMA - Cootamundra
NSWRail GBN Goulburn
NSWRail CBA Canberra
NSWRail SYD Sydney
NSWRail BOM Bomaderry
NSWRail ORG Orange
NSWRail PRK Parkes
NSWRail BHL Broken Hill
NSWRail WRK Werris Creek (I'll change that code on map to WRK)
NSWRail NWC Newcastle
NSWRail CSO Casino
NSWRail ARM Armidale
NSWRail MRE Moree
QRail BNE Brisbane
QRail TWB Toowoomba
QRail GWI Goondawindi (Going to change this on map to RMA - Roma
QRail QLP Quilpie
QRail MRA Moura
QRail GLS Gladstone
QRail RKH Rockhampton
QRail EMD Emerald
QRail LNR Longreach
QRail MKY Mackay
QRail TSV Townsville
QRail HGH Hughenden
QRail MTI Mt Isa
QRail CNS Cairns
QRail FSY Forsythe
AusRail ASP Alice Springs
AusRail TNC Tennant Creek
AusRail KTN Katherine
AusRail DWN Darwin
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Postby Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:35 am

Cheers mate :)
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Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:18 am

Version 9

Some chages here:
1. taken the sleepers off the rails to re-do them
2. Increased the height to allow some more legend room and moved that around
3. INcluded all stops on long distacen trains
4. clarified port pairs a bit further
5. dulled the states bonuses
6. adding the QR to the top of northern sstations in QR...does this work for the colour-blind?

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Postby Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:33 am

Okay a quick note while I"m looking into territories and mapping connections... The connection between SYD and NWC needs to be thicker/moved a little... Quite hard to see. Perhaps move the FRK line up and move the SYD line to the side a little?

Perhaps adding in an empty coloured box would show the in-between stations for minerals/ports over long distances.

I like the QR for colourblind, although I also think people should be able to work out which is which by state-line divisions. Australia map should have taught most people some geography by now... :P But they look good and don't detract. Might help with ease of ID, but you'll have to make sure they're centered right... MTI and FSY are different, and it looks odd. that could get annoying... I still think the state line divisoins should be enough... Perhaps a "QRail" "AusRail" "WARail" in the background of the state could be a better solution to a QR/WR/AR/NR?/VR/TR(gonna get annoying... I don't think NR works ... Try the watermark/background option?

I like the moving the "dotted stations" instruction to where it is.. That is much easier to understand.

Can't wait to see new sleepers :) I'm about 1/3 of the way down the XML process. Should hopefully be first drafted (without pixel positions for armies) by the end of the weekend.

cairnswk wrote:Version 9

Some chages here:
1. taken the sleepers off the rails to re-do them
2. Increased the height to allow some more legend room and moved that around
3. INcluded all stops on long distacen trains
4. clarified port pairs a bit further
5. dulled the states bonuses
6. adding the QR to the top of northern sstations in QR...does this work for the colour-blind?

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Postby Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:37 am

Also WRK-ARM link...

And does the Countrylink XPT go down past brisbane to newcastle/syd? or what is up with the sleeper double tracks there? That's not a marked long distance track.

edit: wait, I see now, that's the countrylink as opposed to the sunlander, I'm getting confused at the break at brisbane...

Another note: GBA should be GBN in the countrylink territ list.
And MGA - MAI in the ghan
Last edited by Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tieryn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:49 am

Thirdly... It's not stated... what are we doing with ports?

All connecting? (Just balance wise this blows my connections spreadsheet all out of proportion for ports... but it's do-able)

Adjacent Connecting? Balance wise I'd prefer this

No Connections at all? This is also perfectly acceptable for my feel of the game just by writing out all of the connections... I've done it so far as is, I'll re-check the bonus calculations tomorrow.

Can you give me a decision by tomorrow cairns? It would mean I can push ahead on the codeside.

Also, territory from WA - SA, I've not heard of Loongana, but Eucla would be the town I'd pick as being there (it's on the border of SA/WA pretty much) not sure if the rail goes there, tho I'd suspect it did... could you check up on this?
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:50 am

First draft of the XML is available here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7tocgt. XML is tested and valid to this stage. Given there's no special features it's all pretty straight forward and should remain valid when co-ords are added.

All co-ordinates are currently set to 1/1/1/1, but are easily changeable later, when the map is set.

All ports are connected in this XML, I have re-calc'd bonuses which are slightly different to what is on map currently, the calc is posted below, Cairns can you have a look and see what you'd like to set them to from the info below? Not sure if you're splitting up some of the continent bonuses due to the long-distance tracks that are inside them (I think that'd be a good idea) but that can be changed with ease.

Image

:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:02 am

Tieryn wrote:
:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).


Thanks Tieryn...I'm still going with Gazala large map coordinates....i was xmled out ages ago. :)
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:04 am

Tieryn wrote:Thirdly... It's not stated... what are we doing with ports?

All connecting? (Just balance wise this blows my connections spreadsheet all out of proportion for ports... but it's do-able)

Adjacent Connecting? Balance wise I'd prefer this

No Connections at all? This is also perfectly acceptable for my feel of the game just by writing out all of the connections... I've done it so far as is, I'll re-check the bonus calculations tomorrow.

Can you give me a decision by tomorrow cairns? It would mean I can push ahead on the codeside.

Also, territory from WA - SA, I've not heard of Loongana, but Eucla would be the town I'd pick as being there (it's on the border of SA/WA pretty much) not sure if the rail goes there, tho I'd suspect it did... could you check up on this?


1. port connections are coming off....does not coincide with the rail gameplay

2. Loongana stays.....it is on my WA rail map.
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Postby onbekende on Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:30 pm

Tieryn wrote:Image

:D and that's me xml'd out for the day, more when changes happen ;).
that r roughly my calc, but don't fix you on the calculated bonus he!
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:43 pm

That's wrong now anyway as it uses ports as attacking each other, which isn't really -rail- Australia anyway heh... so I'll re-do it with new numbers soon.

What I was mainly looking at was the "calculated" which territory should be more and how that maps to what is... but I suspect that will change with ports gone.
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:58 pm

Tieryn wrote:That's wrong now anyway as it uses ports as attacking each other, which isn't really -rail- Australia anyway heh... so I'll re-do it with new numbers soon.

What I was mainly looking at was the "calculated" which territory should be more and how that maps to what is... but I suspect that will change with ports gone.


Tieryn, please hold off on all changes. I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue. Also, there is a complete redesign coming up for the stations as they need to carry a lot more information, similar to Rail Europe. Also, i don't like the rail line thingy for the long distance trains so that will be re-worked anyway.
Off to work now...cheers.
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:04 am

Not a prob, with excel, it's easy to make changes. But I'll leave it where it is until more graphics are finalised.
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Postby oaktown on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:05 pm

cairnswk wrote: I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue.

Of course, mine is only one flavor of colorblindness, but the colors I have the worst time distinguishing are QRail and TasRail. Fortunately the two colors don't intersect, and the bonuses are so different that it's evident which is which, so it's not really an issue. If VicRail was a bit darker that'd set it apart a bit for me, but it's alright as is.

Overall I'd say these colors are fine for me to play with as is.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:24 am

oaktown wrote:
cairnswk wrote: I am consulting oaktown re the CB issue.

Of course, mine is only one flavor of colorblindness, but the colors I have the worst time distinguishing are QRail and TasRail. Fortunately the two colors don't intersect, and the bonuses are so different that it's evident which is which, so it's not really an issue. If VicRail was a bit darker that'd set it apart a bit for me, but it's alright as is.

Overall I'd say these colors are fine for me to play with as is.


Thanks oaktown....i'll make those adjustments for you and hope this will also please others.
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