Operation Drug War [Quenched]

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Postby InkL0sed on Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:15 pm

I don't like the Sector Labels... too much going on in one space.
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Postby edbeard on Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:35 pm

yep. that's why we're going to change them.



mibi, care to clarify which font you're talking about?

the territory labels, the legend, or the sector label text?

I think you're talking about the territory label text, but I'm not sure. We're going to use the legend font for the territory labels so that will probably solve that problem (if that's the one you meant).
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Postby mibi on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:07 am

edbeard wrote:yep. that's why we're going to change them.



mibi, care to clarify which font you're talking about?

the territory labels, the legend, or the sector label text?

I think you're talking about the territory label text, but I'm not sure. We're going to use the legend font for the territory labels so that will probably solve that problem (if that's the one you meant).


STASH looks like ST ASH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:08 am

thanks! I went to that page when you mentioned it. But, like I said, that text will be changed most likely.

Also, here's the XML. I haven't done the centering, but I'm hoping Lanyards still will do that.



Edit: updated XML below. errors fixed.

SENDSPACE LINK TO XML
Last edited by edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:00 pm

Image





What you need to know:

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. But, I have provide an example image of what it could be below.


Just done:

1. Redid legend to make sector bonuses and labels clear (note that there is no bonus for Stash House and this ? will be removed)

2. Two examples of new fonts for territory labels. I prefer the transparent version in the Supply sector.



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. finalize neutral values

3. finish art on all territories

4. pick a territory label font



Here's an example of what I think the neutrals should be.

2 neutrals on all non-starting territories except 4 on those territories needed for an objective and 6 on the Main Stash which is needed for all objectives.

Image
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Postby oaktown on Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Clearly you've put some thought into the play, so I'll leave you to it.

The success of this map will depend upon the legend making perfect sense in this map, as it will could a challenge for some of our international players. The addition of the inset block is helpful. I recognize that the legend is still a work in progress, so my apologies if t everything I say is unnecessary, but here are some little things that i see:

"Can attack the similar symbols" - Lose the word "the".

Colons before each +X would make it cleaner in my opinion... "5 patrols: +4"

"Stick-up-man" looks funny with two hyphens. I'd drop the second one. Meanwhile, does "autodeploy" also need a hyphen? My guess would be yes.

I think it's worth giving stick-up man two lines, like so:
Stick-up Man may bombard any stash
+2 deployed on Stick-up Man each turn

The "leader/2nd" isn't consistent with "commissioner and lieutentant... I think I'd give them both an ampersand (&). Also, consider capitalizing each title in the legend so they stand out.

"Junkie and stash from 1 sector +1"
It might be better to say "Junkie and stash in same sector: +1"

Likewise with the other lines that use the "1" twice.
Image
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Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:22 am

thanks for that Oaktown. We'll implement those in the next update (I hope). One thing to clarify though, we had Leader/2nd because it was an or. We'll change this to Leader or 2nd.


repost for new page

Image


I've been thinking that the Patrol are 1/3 of the starting territories. In 1v1 games, this is probably going to be an area of huge importance

Though, I think the optimal game size for this will be 3, 4 and 5, it's important to make sure it's not completely fucked for other game types.



So, what are people's thoughts on the 5 Patrols: +4 bonus ?


I think this could be better served for holding all Patrols. So, I'm proposing a "All Patrols: +8" Bonus. Too high?
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Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:24 pm

Image


v7
v6
v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash


Just done:

1. Fixed legend errors / made things more clear

2. Put new font on territory labels



To do:

1. Stick-up man

changing from a Lorry to a pickup truck

2. finalize neutral values

3. finish art on all territories

4. Thorough gameplay discussion
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Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:26 am

Image


v8
v7
v6
v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash


Just done:

1. changed a few bits of art

2. Put new font on all territory labels



To do:

1. finalize neutral values

2. finish art on all territories

3. Thorough gameplay discussion
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby gimil on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:40 am

Edbeard would you consider color coordianting the legends to there represneted terrritory names? This may make identifing bonuses, objective etc easier.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:16 pm

I'll send a message to Telvannia about colour coordination. See what he has to say.

But, before I do that, what about colour coordinating by territory labels? I don't want to take away too much from the art Telvannia has done, and unless it's just territory label colours that are coordinated, I think we're taking away from what he's done.

All the coordinated labels would be filled in as opposed to the clear ones we have now.

Boss and Muscle would have the same colours. Black text.

Counter and Runner could have Yellow text.

Junkie could have Blue text

Stash would have Blue and yellow text because it's part of both bonuses.


I'm not sure about colour coordinating all the objectives though. I mean you take a look at what the objectives are and look around the map. It's easy to see that there are two territories in each of the top, bottom, left, and right sectors.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby Mr_Adams on Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:52 pm

looks to much like prohibition to me... something more original...
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby laci_mae on Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:03 pm

In contrast, I believe this map is incredibly original, as well as graphically exceptional. It does have similarities to the Prohibition map, but then again World has similarities to Classic.

Is the top left territory in the Supply sector supposed to have a name & circle? It could be "Scales" or "Sorter".

Keep up the good work. I look forward to this landing in the Final Forge soon.

Best,
LMR
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby edbeard on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:00 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:looks to much like prohibition to me... something more original...

this gave me a good laugh


that territory is called Supplier. Obviously, it's a bit hidden. We'll look into moving it or maybe we should just scrap the clear font.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby laci_mae on Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:01 pm

edbeard wrote:that territory is called Supplier. Obviously, it's a bit hidden. We'll look into moving it or maybe we should just scrap the clear font.


I looked at previous versions, and now see the issue.

The supplier label is fine. However, the area with the table and chair appears to be a separate, unnamed territory. In previous versions, this was clearly one territory.

Best,
LMR
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby Marvaddin on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:27 am

Hi ed and all. :)

This map doesnt make sense to me:

Drug operation just near the City Hall??? In movies they are always on ports, and we Brazilians think about them on slugs (maybe a better idea). So near the city hall is very strange... And phones attacking phones???? :shock:

Too much reading to understand the bonuses, too much small bonuses, and a simplist objective, like hold a continent and an specific territory. I think, if the objective is too hard, it will be ignored like in Age of Magic map. If not, it will be taken too easily.

I would also suggest changing the quadrant scheme, I dont think it has the better appeal. And what are those white lines on the streets???
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby laci_mae on Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:13 pm

Hi Marvaddin,

Let me try to field some of your concerns. It is clear that much of this map is based on a cultural experience. I too associate large players in the drug trade with international ports. (I'm not sure what a slug is in Brazil. Here it is a bug.) However, all of the small time drug trade and use goes on in the cities. Often the areas around city hall or the state capitols are pretty run down. These buildings were built in the nicest part of town some 40 or 50 years ago. Now, these areas are often thought of as impoverished. Based on this, the setting for the map is on point.

You also voiced concerns about the difficulty of the objectives, the bonus structure, and the overall design. The variety of maps available on CC reflects the variety of members. We could have a thread where everyone lists their top 5 favorite maps, and almost everyone's post would be different. Personally, I'm not very experienced with objective focused maps; however, I see their value for the site. What I'm very politely trying not to say is, you don't have to play it.

And, finally, I agree. What are those white lines for?

Best,
LMR
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby oaktown on Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:29 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Drug operation just near the City Hall??? In movies they are always on ports, and we Brazilians think about them on slugs (maybe a better idea). So near the city hall is very strange...

You should come up to california... hang out within two blocks of city hall in San Francisco, LA, or Oakland and somebody will assume you're looking to score. ;)

Marvaddin wrote:And phones attacking phones???? :shock:

The phones are kinda funny... everybody has cell phones these days!

Marvaddin wrote:Too much reading to understand the bonuses, too much small bonuses, and a simplist objective, like hold a continent and an specific territory. I think, if the objective is too hard, it will be ignored like in Age of Magic map. If not, it will be taken too easily.

I tend to agree that maps are getting a bit too heavy on the rules. I tend to avoid playing maps if I have to constantly keep referring to the legend to know who can attack me where, but that's a personal preference not shared by everybody on CC. If you guys finalize the bonuses, legend wording, and the starting neutral values this should be pretty close to wrapping up the gameplay issues.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby mibi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:55 pm

Something bugs me about this map. I think its the combination of realism and unrealism.

Top down view with desks and couches. Cool
Top down view with rooms with nothing in them. Not Cool.

Streets with no sidewalks?
City blocks so uniform and rectangular?
Whats up with those white lines in the streets?

The topic seems dark, the gameplay is advanced, but the graphical execution is a bit child play, which serves as a rather jarring dichotomy.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby babinecz on Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:15 pm

just looks like prohibition chicago, and is still a stupid idea
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby gimil on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:53 am

What the story with this ed? Where are we with it?
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby edbeard on Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:37 pm

at the moment, I'm busy with other things. I'll send a PM to Telvannia about other concerns. I'm sure Tel is busy too.


I'm planning on using coloured text to help distinguish where the objectives and some of the bonuses are.

Right now all the text is see-thru, but I'll make the objective territories black. And, the three inside corner bonuses will be made into colours as well.

The other route we could take is to colour the territories in the corners which go with the mini-bonuses. (Stash, counter, runner, junkie, maybe even boss and muscle).


As far as some of the other comments, I'll address them as I see fit.

phones are necessary to give more movement around the map

I believe those white lines are street lights. I'd have to ask Telvannia though.

This map is similar to Prohibition in that they are both set in a city and are conquer club maps.

The quadrant scheme works for the gameplay we have here. It's a symmetrical map in one way, but not in another. It's not meant for epic games so that's why the objective is fairly easy. Some tinkering is definitely needed though. I think the Hideout sector needs a boost for one. Maybe a slight bonus increase for each muscle (when you have 2nd or Leader).

It is 'rules heavy' but how many times do you have to play a 'rules heavy' map before you figure out how it works? The key is to make sure it's easy enough for people to play on their first go around. I think we're meeting that by colour coordination (either by text as I've said above or possibly making the territories colour coordinated). That combined with the legend actually telling you what the bonuses are is plenty.

We're still tackling the graphics so any suggestions of what to put in territories would be helpful.
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Re: Operation Drug War v9 pg6

Postby laci_mae on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:45 pm

babinecz wrote:just looks like prohibition chicago, and is still a stupid idea


My mother always told me if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your damn mouth shut.

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Re: Operation Drug War v10 pg7

Postby edbeard on Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:52 pm

Image


v9
v8
v7
v6
v5


What you need to know

1. This is an objective map. Four different ones that all include holding the main stash.
2. There are 24 starting territories. Everything starts neutral except the 8 patrol cars, the 4 corner bosses, the 4 runners, the 4 corner junkies, the 4 counters.
That's 4*4 + 8 = 16 + 8 = 24
3. There are 35 other territories that start out as neutral
4. Number of neutrals on those territories has yet to be determined. Proposed 2 on all with the exceptions of 4 on objective territories and 6 on Main Stash


Just done:

1. changed NW corner graphics (if good will change rest of corners as well).

2. added graphics to Hideout

3. added graphics to Vacants. Probably need to add some more to the northern part of this sector.

4. Added colours to sector bonuses and correspondingly added colours to the territory label text to match. These need to be tinkered with to be more readable and not to blend in with background.



To do:

1. finalize neutral values

2. finish art throughout.

3. Thorough gameplay discussion
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Re: Operation Drug War v10 pg7

Postby laci_mae on Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:44 pm

Hey Ed,

I like the color coded labels indicating bonuses.

I don't know about the green (new) graphics. I kinda dig the existing color scheme.

I'm confused about why the Driver territory has a table instead of a car. Also, I'm still not comfortable with the supplier territory graphics. It's better because you shifted the label, but having it still looks like the table and the helicopter should be separate territories. Please consider making this one box with one graphical feature.

The three columns could be made equal in width. There is a lot of extra space in the middle column because there are only 5 or 6 territories whereas the narrower outer columns have up to 8 territories in a section.

Is there a bonus for holding the Stash House?

Do you have to hold the whole objective at the beginning of a turn or just by the end of a turn to win?

These comments should keep you busy for now. #-o

Keep up the good work SM

LMR
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