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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:11 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:the major gameplay differences

:roll:
can you please point them out
point out what special gameplay features you have?

ZeakCytho wrote:theme

theme, what theme?

ZeakCytho wrote:creating an intricate network of bottlenecks

bottle necks isnt something to be proud of:
DiM wrote:people don't like bottle necks and they avoid them like the plague.

look at indochina. it has great graphics but nobody plays it becouse of the middle bottle neck. it's just bad.

see^^ and he is one of the best map makers here


Overall:
:roll: :roll: you complain that its not like discworld, point out true differences between them then :roll: :roll:
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:43 pm

t-o-m wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:the major gameplay differences

:roll:
can you please point them out
point out what special gameplay features you have?


Gameplay is not all about gimmicks. By your logic, that would make Classic, Europe, USA, France, and any game that doesn't involve an objective or a quirky effect the same as Discworld, which is obviously not true. Gameplay differences stem from the layout of territories and continents in these maps; since each is slightly different, each map provides a unique experience while retaining the same system of gameplay.

What we hope to do is take this system that is clearly well-liked and apply it to a new set of territories and continents connected in a way different than any extant map.

t-o-m wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:theme

theme, what theme?


A simple map with a plain style of gamplay that takes advantage of a geographic set not fully utilized in any map currently on CC. Perhaps that's not the contrived, farfetched type of theme that you're looking for, but those overdone maps are exactly what caused Mjinga and I to want to create this.

t-o-m wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:creating an intricate network of bottlenecks

bottle necks isnt something to be proud of:
DiM wrote:people don't like bottle necks and they avoid them like the plague.

look at indochina. it has great graphics but nobody plays it becouse of the middle bottle neck. it's just bad.

see^^ and he is one of the best map makers here


Bottlenecks was the wrong word. There is no one territory that you can hold that blocks off a large portion of the map, as is the case in a number of maps, including Classic. There is only one dead end, but to hold the continent that encloses it involves holding many more territories. Rather, Archipelago has a network of small connections that creates a web, allowing intricate movement patterns. All of the continents have numerous borders, some contiguous and others not, creating this situation.

If you think certain territories should/shouldn't connect to others, then say so.

t-o-m wrote:
Overall:
:roll: :roll: you complain that its not like discworld, point out true differences between them then :roll: :roll:


[-X
Let me remind you of a phrase which is at the crux of the Western legal system. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. Mjinga and I can refute what you say, but we are under no obligation to dig up proof as to why we are not like Discworld, though we have done so. Since you are the one asserting that Archipelago is identical to Discworld, then you point out the similarities.
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby greenoaks on Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:10 pm

Let me remind you of a phrase which is at the crux of the Western legal system. The burden of proof lies on the accuser.
you are not in the Western world, you are in the map foundry. it is your responsibility to interest us or the map goes nowhere.

By your logic, that would make Classic, Europe, USA, France, and any game that doesn't involve an objective or a quirky effect the same as Discworld, which is obviously not true.
these maps interest us because they are real places. that is their gimmick or hook to get us to play them. Discworld's hook is its relationship to the novels many of us have read.

you have no gimmick. you have no hook. your map has nothing going for it.
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby DiM on Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:52 pm

as much as i like fantasy maps i don't find this one attractive at all. i mean making up a bogus archipelago just for the sake of it is wrong. if you want to create a special gameplay yes you can come up with fantasy realms to suit your needs but if it's classic gameplay then why not do a real place? you will have a lot more success by doing the hawaii islands or by making the malay archipelago because people relate better to a real place than to a fantasy theme. and frankly unless the fantasy theme comes from something very popular (middle earth, discworld) or the gameplay is something new and exciting (aom, feudal, aor) then people won't play it.

look at this image of the malay archipelago. isn't it nice?
Click image to enlarge.
image
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:38 am

ZeakCytho wrote:[-X
Let me remind you of a phrase which is at the crux of the Western legal system. The burden of proof lies on the accuser. Mjinga and I can refute what you say, but we are under no obligation to dig up proof as to why we are not like Discworld, though we have done so. Since you are the one asserting that Archipelago is identical to Discworld, then you point out the similarities.

hey - your the one making the map - your the one that has to defend the critisism, if you cant deal with it then you shouldnt make it. i think you can deal with it but there is nothing that makes it dramatically different.
this has no theme, you say it is like classic - classic's theme is the world, this theme is a couple of islands.

DiM is right, if you want a fantasy world, you have to have it as something we can relate to.

and that image DiM - ii would play on that if that was made.


ZeakCytho, we understand that you and your partner have put a lot of effort into this, but you perhaps should have posted a few drafts earlier on to see if it appeals to people, sorry

--tom
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby bryguy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:55 am

ok i dont think this map is gonna work, wanna know why?



the maker of it cant take any criticism, you need to be able to take criticism to make a map, and by my calculations this will never reach FF
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:03 am

bryguy wrote:ok i dont think this map is gonna work, wanna know why?



the maker of it cant take any criticism, you need to be able to take criticism to make a map, and by my calculations this will never reach FF

thank youu!!!!!
thats what i was trying to tell you!!!!!!!!!!!

ok ok enough with the exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby bryguy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:07 am

t-o-m wrote:
bryguy wrote:ok i dont think this map is gonna work, wanna know why?



the maker of it cant take any criticism, you need to be able to take criticism to make a map, and by my calculations this will never reach FF

thank youu!!!!!
thats what i was trying to tell you!!!!!!!!!!!

ok ok enough with the exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:lol:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:30 am

basically you have a very bad attitude, wont take critisism, ordering me to point out the similarities when its your map you should defen it, so basically - get a better attitude, learn to take critisism, and put the work in - dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby bryguy on Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:54 pm

t-o-m wrote:basically you have a very bad attitude, wont take critisism, ordering me to point out the similarities when its your map you should defen it, so basically - get a better attitude, learn to take critisism, and put the work in - dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you




yes do that


and give me back the 6 or 7
Code: Select all
:lol:(s)
i had at the end of my post!!! :evil: :cry: :o :shock: :? :ugeek: :geek:
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:32 pm

!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby wcaclimbing on Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:39 pm

Looks good so far, just a few things from me:
The army circles in Rol Archapelagoand Aori Archapelago. Could you put them entirely on the water? they just look kinda strange where they are covering the islands.
The mountain/volcano thing in the Red continent. It should be blended a bit more in with the red. right now it just kinda painted on top of it. make the transition more smooth like the mountains in teh brown continent.

EDIT: wow.... just read the thread.
I don't see the similarity between this and mibi's tutorial. I don't see it at all.
Doesn't seem that similar to Diskworld either.... yeah, they are both maps that are based on the use of islands on water..... but nothing else seems that similar to me. Lots of islands connected by dotted lines........
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby Mjinga on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:25 pm

Hmm, a lot to address here. I’ll do it in no particular order. Btw, your map is beautiful, wcaclimbing.

t-o-m wrote:ZeakCytho, we understand that you and your partner have put a lot of effort into this, but you perhaps should have posted a few drafts earlier on to see if it appeals to people, sorry
This is a draft. I don’t do shoddy drafts. We got the idea to do an island map, did the rough drafts between ourselves, and thus were able to put a draft on CC that isn’t crap.

t-o-m wrote:hey - your the one making the map - your the one that has to defend the critisism, if you cant deal with it then you shouldnt make it. i think you can deal with it but there is nothing that makes it dramatically different.
Neither of us has a problem with criticism. But what kind of response do you want? You say, “It looks like discworld.” We tell you how we think it’s different, and you say, “It looks like discworld.” We tell you again how ours has a different gameplay layout, and you say, “It looks like discworld.” Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the way the placement of territories alters gameplay? We have pointed out how ours is different. Now we need you to tell us how you find them similar, with more clarity than “it looks like discworld.”

bryguy wrote:ok i dont think this map is gonna work, wanna know why? the maker of it cant take any criticism, you need to be able to take criticism to make a map, and by my calculations this will never reach FF
If you would like a change made to the map and will state what sort of change you would like understandably, I will be happy to make it.

t-o-m wrote:basically you have a very bad attitude, wont take critisism, ordering me to point out the similarities when its your map you should defen it, so basically - get a better attitude, learn to take critisism, and put the work in - dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you
I bow to your superior suggestion. If you’ll just send the psd file back to me, I’ll do my own work from now on.

greenoaks wrote:…you are in the map foundry. it is your responsibility to interest us or the map goes nowhere.
Absolutely it is. You seem very keen to argue on a map that you’re not interested in, though. ;)

wcaclimbing wrote:Looks good so far, just a few things from me:
The army circles in Rol Archapelagoand Aori Archapelago. Could you put them entirely on the water? they just look kinda strange where they are covering the islands.
The mountain/volcano thing in the Red continent. It should be blended a bit more in with the red. right now it just kinda painted on top of it. make the transition more smooth like the mountains in teh brown continent.
You are right on all counts. I’ll have a go at it at once.

wcaclimbing wrote: EDIT: wow.... just read the thread.
I don't see the similarity between this and mibi's tutorial. I don't see it at all.
Doesn't seem that similar to Diskworld either.... yeah, they are both maps that are based on the use of islands on water..... but nothing else seems that similar to me. Lots of islands connected by dotted lines........
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby Herakilla on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:37 pm

dont listen to tom, you map looks nothing like any of those things. and i personally think you have a good attitude, tom is just provoking you and then is trying to call you out for that. the "evidence" he provided only convinced me even furthur that your map doesnt have any similarities to disc world and that video by mibi i think it looks good so far
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:35 pm

Thanks, wcaclimbing and herakilla :)

Here's version 2:
Click image to enlarge.
image


What You Need To Know
Territories - 36
Continents - 6
Other Gameplay Features - None

Changes in this Update
1. Moved army circles in Rol and Iori Archipelagos
2. Blended the Volcano on Bishan Island more
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