Archipelago [Quenched]

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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:32 pm

!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby wcaclimbing on Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:39 pm

Looks good so far, just a few things from me:
The army circles in Rol Archapelagoand Aori Archapelago. Could you put them entirely on the water? they just look kinda strange where they are covering the islands.
The mountain/volcano thing in the Red continent. It should be blended a bit more in with the red. right now it just kinda painted on top of it. make the transition more smooth like the mountains in teh brown continent.

EDIT: wow.... just read the thread.
I don't see the similarity between this and mibi's tutorial. I don't see it at all.
Doesn't seem that similar to Diskworld either.... yeah, they are both maps that are based on the use of islands on water..... but nothing else seems that similar to me. Lots of islands connected by dotted lines........
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby Mjinga on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:25 pm

Hmm, a lot to address here. I’ll do it in no particular order. Btw, your map is beautiful, wcaclimbing.

t-o-m wrote:ZeakCytho, we understand that you and your partner have put a lot of effort into this, but you perhaps should have posted a few drafts earlier on to see if it appeals to people, sorry
This is a draft. I don’t do shoddy drafts. We got the idea to do an island map, did the rough drafts between ourselves, and thus were able to put a draft on CC that isn’t crap.

t-o-m wrote:hey - your the one making the map - your the one that has to defend the critisism, if you cant deal with it then you shouldnt make it. i think you can deal with it but there is nothing that makes it dramatically different.
Neither of us has a problem with criticism. But what kind of response do you want? You say, “It looks like discworld.” We tell you how we think it’s different, and you say, “It looks like discworld.” We tell you again how ours has a different gameplay layout, and you say, “It looks like discworld.” Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the way the placement of territories alters gameplay? We have pointed out how ours is different. Now we need you to tell us how you find them similar, with more clarity than “it looks like discworld.”

bryguy wrote:ok i dont think this map is gonna work, wanna know why? the maker of it cant take any criticism, you need to be able to take criticism to make a map, and by my calculations this will never reach FF
If you would like a change made to the map and will state what sort of change you would like understandably, I will be happy to make it.

t-o-m wrote:basically you have a very bad attitude, wont take critisism, ordering me to point out the similarities when its your map you should defen it, so basically - get a better attitude, learn to take critisism, and put the work in - dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you
I bow to your superior suggestion. If you’ll just send the psd file back to me, I’ll do my own work from now on.

greenoaks wrote:…you are in the map foundry. it is your responsibility to interest us or the map goes nowhere.
Absolutely it is. You seem very keen to argue on a map that you’re not interested in, though. ;)

wcaclimbing wrote:Looks good so far, just a few things from me:
The army circles in Rol Archapelagoand Aori Archapelago. Could you put them entirely on the water? they just look kinda strange where they are covering the islands.
The mountain/volcano thing in the Red continent. It should be blended a bit more in with the red. right now it just kinda painted on top of it. make the transition more smooth like the mountains in teh brown continent.
You are right on all counts. I’ll have a go at it at once.

wcaclimbing wrote: EDIT: wow.... just read the thread.
I don't see the similarity between this and mibi's tutorial. I don't see it at all.
Doesn't seem that similar to Diskworld either.... yeah, they are both maps that are based on the use of islands on water..... but nothing else seems that similar to me. Lots of islands connected by dotted lines........
Thank you.
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby Herakilla on Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:37 pm

dont listen to tom, you map looks nothing like any of those things. and i personally think you have a good attitude, tom is just provoking you and then is trying to call you out for that. the "evidence" he provided only convinced me even furthur that your map doesnt have any similarities to disc world and that video by mibi i think it looks good so far
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:35 pm

Thanks, wcaclimbing and herakilla :)

Here's version 2:
Click image to enlarge.
image


What You Need To Know
Territories - 36
Continents - 6
Other Gameplay Features - None

Changes in this Update
1. Moved army circles in Rol and Iori Archipelagos
2. Blended the Volcano on Bishan Island more
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:55 pm

umm that is different people, i mean wow I MADE A ISLAND IN THE SHAPE OF A CIRCLE, of course its gonna look a lil simalar now what are u gonna call it it a look alike of aulstralia but just not so elonged....
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:10 am

Mjinga wrote:Hmm, a lot to address here. I’ll do it in no particular order. Btw, your map is beautiful, wcaclimbing.

greenoaks wrote:…you are in the map foundry. it is your responsibility to interest us or the map goes nowhere.
Absolutely it is. You seem very keen to argue on a map that you’re not interested in, though. ;)
i don't come here to argue, i come here to provide imput so you can make a map that will interest me and the CC community at large.

i have suggested the real world in 3 different posts. DiM went to the effort to post a map of a real place for you to base your map on.

and what do you do? respond to the flamers & ignore the constructive criticism's.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:13 am

i was just refering to the bitching of yall, imo its different, the constructive u GAVE was f*ck it, make a new one that i want to play because I, want a real place, or a fucked up gameplay map...cha man i dont like to argue but sometimes people need to be told stuff
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby Herakilla on Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:12 am

lets stop arguing and start providing constructive criticism. main thing i want to point out is 36 territories is such a back number! it gives whoever goes first in sequential 2 and 3 players games a lot of power since all they need is one territory and that player get one less army than they did. my suggestion would be to find a way to either add or subtract a territory. its late and i cant remember if this is abstract or based on a real place but if abstract then you have complete power over the map, you are god, you can create new islands and crap if need be
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:03 am

I like the update, the drafts u two are doing are really nice considering its one and two, i commend u on it guys, as the guy said about 2 and 3 player games, that is easily adressed, i really like this map keep up the good work
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby t-o-m on Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:38 am

greenoaks wrote:i don't come here to argue, i come here to provide imput so you can make a map that will interest me and the CC community at large.

exactly
CatfishJohnson wrote:lets stop arguing

yes
CatfishJohnson wrote:i was just refering to the bitching of yall

langueage
CatfishJohnson wrote:the constructive u GAVE was f*ck it

[-X langueage again and attitude
CatfishJohnson wrote:i dont like to argue

:o u sure about that?
Herakilla wrote:dont listen to tom, you map looks nothing like any of those things. and i personally think you have a good attitude, tom is just provoking you and then is trying to call you out for that. the "evidence" he provided only convinced me even furthur that your map doesnt have any similarities to disc world and that video by mibi i think it looks good so far

haha i remember that lil chat on live chat ;)
Mjinga wrote:Neither of us has a problem with criticism.

well take the critisism then
Mjinga wrote:
t-o-m wrote: basically you have a very bad attitude, wont take critisism, ordering me to point out the similarities when its your map you should defen it, so basically - get a better attitude, learn to take critisism, and put the work in - dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you


I bow to your superior suggestion.

thats attitude again.


you know what, im bored of you just listening to hat you want to listen to, im just going to ignore this thread from now on
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:59 am

w00t?
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby ZeakCytho on Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:02 pm

greenoaks wrote:i don't come here to argue, i come here to provide imput so you can make a map that will interest me and the CC community at large.

i have suggested the real world in 3 different posts. DiM went to the effort to post a map of a real place for you to base your map on.

and what do you do? respond to the flamers & ignore the constructive criticism's.


Your suggestion of making a real world place is not really of any value to us. It's not "constructive criticism." It's not even criticism, really. You're giving your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to, but since you're telling us to scrap what we have and start from scratch, it's not particularly beneficial to us. We don't really want to do a map of a real world place, probably for the same reasons as you don't want to see us do a fictional place. I'm sorry that doesn't interest you, but your opinion does not represent the opinion of the "CC community at large." Also, for the record, we haven't been ignoring any serious comments, either for or against this map.

Herakilla wrote:lets stop arguing and start providing constructive criticism.


:)

Herakilla wrote:main thing i want to point out is 36 territories is such a back number! it gives whoever goes first in sequential 2 and 3 players games a lot of power since all they need is one territory and that player get one less army than they did. my suggestion would be to find a way to either add or subtract a territory. its late and i cant remember if this is abstract or based on a real place but if abstract then you have complete power over the map, you are god, you can create new islands and crap if need be


Sure, we can add/subtract territories without a problem. What number would be best to have? I don't know the exact algorithm for deciding neutral placement, but if I remember correctly, even numbers are best. In that case, should we make two additional territories?

t-o-m wrote:
Mjinga wrote:Neither of us has a problem with criticism.


well take the critisism then


If you would give any criticism for this map, we would gladly take it. But the only thing you've been saying is "it looks like Discworld," which, as we explained earlier, isn't really helpful.

Thanks for the continued interest, CatfishJohnson and Herakilla :D

To Do:
1) Decide how many territories to add/subtract
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby DiM on Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:27 pm

it seems this post was ignored:

DiM wrote:as much as i like fantasy maps i don't find this one attractive at all. i mean making up a bogus archipelago just for the sake of it is wrong. if you want to create a special gameplay yes you can come up with fantasy realms to suit your needs but if it's classic gameplay then why not do a real place? you will have a lot more success by doing the hawaii islands or by making the malay archipelago because people relate better to a real place than to a fantasy theme. and frankly unless the fantasy theme comes from something very popular (middle earth, discworld) or the gameplay is something new and exciting (aom, feudal, aor) then people won't play it.

look at this image of the malay archipelago. isn't it nice?
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:32 pm

ok i know i said that i would ignore this - but you need to be told - you need to take critisism and take in information from others
whenever i say that you always come out with some long winded piece of crap that confuses people and all to dodge the question,

DiM was ignored - listen to him

and btw DiM you ignored my posts on teh foundry discssion! well everyone did :( !
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby greenoaks on Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:09 pm

you were not ignored DiM. they basically told us to piss off in this post. they only want to hear from people who agree with them.

ZeakCytho wrote:
greenoaks wrote:i don't come here to argue, i come here to provide imput so you can make a map that will interest me and the CC community at large.

i have suggested the real world in 3 different posts. DiM went to the effort to post a map of a real place for you to base your map on.

and what do you do? respond to the flamers & ignore the constructive criticism's.


Your suggestion of making a real world place is not really of any value to us. It's not "constructive criticism." It's not even criticism, really. You're giving your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to, but since you're telling us to scrap what we have and start from scratch, it's not particularly beneficial to us. We don't really want to do a map of a real world place, probably for the same reasons as you don't want to see us do a fictional place. I'm sorry that doesn't interest you, but your opinion does not represent the opinion of the "CC community at large." Also, for the record, we haven't been ignoring any serious comments, either for or against this map.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:07 pm

greenoaks wrote:you were not ignored DiM. they basically told us to piss off in this post. they only want to hear from people who agree with them.


Hear that sound? It's the sound of total lack of interest in this map as it is right now. ;)
Last edited by TaCktiX on Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:32 pm

TaCktiX wrote:
greenoaks wrote:you were not ignored DiM. they basically told us to piss off in this post. they only want to hear from people who agree with them.


Here that sound? It's the sound of total lack of interest in this map as it is right now. ;)

yepp
see this is all the regulars from the foundry speaking here, if the regulars dont see something that will work, they wont discard it, they will suggest and critisize it (contructive critisism), but you wont take it,
there nothing special to the map,
nothing anyone can relate to,
no descripion of it,
what is it???????

since you cant take critisism and you wont listen to it, lets move this to Final Forge, there you wont get any critisism what so ever, nothing, lets quench it now if your reluctant to listen - then you will get hordes of people willing to play,
^sarcasm^

oh i know what will happen:

either:

1) this will be ignored

2) discarded

3) ill respond but act innocent

4) snap back with a long winded remark that means nothing

5)move on and do nothing and continue to only hear what he wants to listen to


what do you want us to say?

outstanding map, nothing to add, FF it and quench right away, dont listen to critisism, do it your way so your happy - who cares about what others think, if they dont like it - they will have to just deal with it.


attitude problem - i am not normally like this you know
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby Mjinga on Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:25 pm

DiM: You are right, I did not specifically respond to you. I beg your pardon. The Malay archipelago is very nice.

However, I don’t feel that you can issue a blanket statement on our existing map like, “people won’t play it.” I have received support for the idea in game chats and in this very thread. Perhaps you won’t play it.

Also for the record, I’ve found that to most people on the internet, unless they live near it or are particularly interested in the world, the Malay archipelago is as irrelevant as our archipelago is. Most people are stuck in their own little spot of geography and couldn’t tell Bucharest from Yaoundé.

t-o-m: We have taken criticism. I have changed the map instantly to reflect the criticism of wcaclimbing. I have not scrapped the map, as you have suggested I do, and so perhaps in that I have not taken your criticism. I do not feel required to give up on this idea simply because you and a few others do not like it. ConquerClub is a big place, and I feel there is room for this idea here.

Also, I might let you know that it is puerile to thread-jack other people’s map threads simply because you disagree with Zeak and I in this thread.

greenoaks: No, he didn’t basically tell you to piss off. Since you don’t seem to go for the polite way, I’ll tell you the way that I’d have said it. “I am not going to scrap this map. Period. Suggesting changing it to a real-world archipelago is not helpful, because that’s asking me to make an entirely different map. It’s not a change about this one. If you have something useful to say, if you would like something about this map changed, I will happily listen. If not, and you just want to complain that I should do something else, then piss off.”

TaCktiX: Thank you for notifying us of your non-interest.

t-o-m II: Oh, you’re ALL the regulars? I never knew that you four decided everything on ConquerClub.

Everyone: I realise that not everyone will like the map. I am perfectly cognizant of that fact. I accept it. I am aware of it. You do not need to keep reiterating it.

Something that you might keep in mind is that I have followed all rules for this forum. I am not required to remake the map from an actual geographical location, I am only required in rule four that:

4. All sound advice must be followed unless a logical rebuttal by the cartographer or another member of the community is provided.

We have provided these rebuttals. You are just saying that you are not interested, and keep saying this. I know this. I get the point. I hear you. You hate my map. That’s nice. Now please proceed to remember rule five:

5. To proceed through the foundry the community must show a reasonable amount of interest towards a map.

This rule is designed to take care of exactly the problem that you have with our map. Okay? If there is not enough interest, then it will not get passed out of Map Ideas. It is as simple as that. I do not need to hear “no one will play it” over and over again. That is not useful criticism.

Let the non-interest that you say abounds show itself, don’t incessantly inform me that it’s there.
Reputation cleared. :) Never let it be said that Team CC don't investigate fairly.
Although they take bloody forever to do it...
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby CatfishJohnson on Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:33 pm

lol nicely done, i mean if they didnt have interest in the map they wouldnt keep coming here to axe it :\
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:38 pm

i dont want you to scrap the map, just ajust it.

Mjinga wrote:TaCktiX: Thank you for notifying us of your non-interest.

i accept your thanks on behalf of him ;) dont i Tack ;)

Mjinga wrote:Oh, you’re ALL the regulars? I never knew that you four decided everything on ConquerClub.

yep thats us, everything on this whole site goes through us :D
what i mean is that i am not a 'regular' but the others are
they do know what works and what doesnt, theyve seen things goes through the foundry, theyve seen what will make it,
so listen to the experienced people and dont go mouthing off to them [-X

and as for the long winded bit: go study some other map threads, they have a good attitude, listen to people, and are not stuborn

CatfishJohnson wrote:lol nicely done, i mean if they didnt have interest in the map they wouldnt keep coming here to axe it :\

umm so u wanna know if we have interest eh?
what you said doesnt even make sense, if we had interest why woudl we "axe it"

TaCktiX wrote:
greenoaks wrote:you were not ignored DiM. they basically told us to piss off in this post. they only want to hear from people who agree with them.


Hear that sound? It's the sound of total lack of interest in this map as it is right now. ;)
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby Mjinga on Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:50 pm

t-o-m wrote:i dont want you to scrap the map, just ajust it.
How, then? Please inform me. Specific details work best.

t-o-m wrote:what i mean is that i am not a 'regular' but the others are
they do know what works and what doesnt, theyve seen things goes through the foundry, theyve seen what will make it,
so listen to the experienced people and dont go mouthing off to them [-X
Good for them. I have noted their opinions.

t-o-m wrote: and as for the long winded bit: go study some other map threads, they have a good attitude, listen to people, and are not stuborn
All that I have been stubborn on is that I will not give up. I repeat, I will not. End of story. Next?

I think you rather completely misunderstood both my post and CatfishJohnson’s.
Reputation cleared. :) Never let it be said that Team CC don't investigate fairly.
Although they take bloody forever to do it...
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:56 pm

Mjinga wrote:
t-o-m wrote: i dont want you to scrap the map, just ajust it.


How, then? Please inform me. Specific details work best.

im not making the map, i have no interest in this map so my only suggestion is to get a theme, theme it more i.e have flags on there from the countries that have there - i know little about where your doing so do some research into their culture and things and include that in there - atm it looks a bit...meh...boring...i know it is a first draft though
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Re: Archipelago v2 (p1+2)

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:02 pm

i gave you critisism and a suggestion,

i saw both of your names on the "users browsing this forum", why dont you respond? ;)
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Re: Archipelago --v1 p1--

Postby wcaclimbing on Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:09 pm

DiM wrote:as much as i like fantasy maps i don't find this one attractive at all. i mean making up a bogus archipelago just for the sake of it is wrong. if you want to create a special gameplay yes you can come up with fantasy realms to suit your needs but if it's classic gameplay then why not do a real place? you will have a lot more success by doing the hawaii islands or by making the malay archipelago because people relate better to a real place than to a fantasy theme. and frankly unless the fantasy theme comes from something very popular (middle earth, discworld) or the gameplay is something new and exciting (aom, feudal, aor) then people won't play it.

look at this image of the malay archipelago. isn't it nice?
[image removed]


Colors match up below with text in the quote.

Does it matter that much anyway?

cause maybe there isn't a place that matches this map?
Also, forcing a map onto a real landscape can often trash the gameplay. Because the borders given by a real map won't always give good gameplay for CC.


Is there any evidence out there to support that?

*raises hand*
I'll still play it. I'm looking forward to it.
Remember:
Not everyone likes complex maps.
Not everyone likes real world maps.
Let them make this map. it looks good so far.

Look at this image of a monkey. isn't it nice?
Image
Image
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