San Marino [Quenched]

[oaktown]

alright, this is my first real look at this map, so I'll try to make my post a comprehensive one.

Geography: I can't say I've been to San Marino, but I've been through Italy a few times and the individual elements on the map don't give a proper sense of scale. San Marino is not a large area - about 10km wide I'm guessing - yet the mountain ranges you have running through the center of it give the impression that this is a big region we're talking about... either that, or I could jump over those mountains. And shouldn't there only be one range running through the country? I don't think that the mountains south of Ca'Vagnetto should be there at all - it should instead be a river, Il Fiumicello.

Graphics: Overall it is very clean, which I appreciate. The legend is straightforward and everything is clear. The font is much improved; that stroke had to go. Both the elements on the map itself - towers, rivers, and the mountains - look cartoonish, which isn't in keeping with the images around the exterior of the map. Since you're already using the stamp on the bottom left with the towers, maybe you could appropriate those towers for use on the map - it would be more appropriate.

Gameplay: again, very straightforward. I like the tower bonus, as it leaves room to collect a bonus on the sly. I'd maybe like to see the region borders a bit less heavy, as they could initially be confused as unpassables, but it's probably fine as is.

When I look at a new map, i try to imagine myself playing it and wondering what the most attractive starts would be. With that in mind, I don't much care for the two-territory +2 bonus, as it would be easy to start with this and have an automatic advantage over the rest of the field. I might also suggest you drop the bonus for the Chiesanuova region, as this will clearly be the most attractive start in the game; you leapfrog right from one small +2 to the next, never creating any additional borders to defend because you're protected by the range. You roll right along until you have a ten territory, +7 region (including the four towers) with only three borders to defend. Compare that to starting in the northeast, where you need 13 territories for a +7, and there's no easy to grab bonuses along the way.

For me what would mix things up a bit - and possibly make it more realistic to the actual region - would be to break up the one central mountain range and have more unpassable mountains throughout... rocky crags and the like.

overall really nice work so far.

[Ruben Cassar]

Thanks for your in depth feedback oaktown. I will try to address some issues you raised in this post.

alright, this is my first real look at this map, so I'll try to make my post a comprehensive one.

Geography: I can't say I've been to San Marino, but I've been through Italy a few times and the individual elements on the map don't give a proper sense of scale. San Marino is not a large area - about 10km wide I'm guessing - yet the mountain ranges you have running through the center of it give the impression that this is a big region we're talking about... either that, or I could jump over those mountains. And shouldn't there only be one range running through the country? I don't think that the mountains south of Ca'Vagnetto should be there at all - it should instead be a river, Il Fiumicello.

If you look at some other maps, (even the Malta map which I created) you will notice that these are not exactly accurate. In Malta we have no mountains but I used those as impassable objects for gameplay purposes.

In this map I took some liberties as the map maker. I was more focused on how the map would look and how it would play than on being 100% accurate. For example in the early drafts I had rivers passing through the middle of territories for the sake of being accurate. People were complaining saying this was confusing so I decided to remove the parts of the river that passed through territories and leave the part which served as an impassable border which basically is what is relevant to gameplay.

Graphics: Overall it is very clean, which I appreciate. The legend is straightforward and everything is clear. The font is much improved; that stroke had to go. Both the elements on the map itself - towers, rivers, and the mountains - look cartoonish, which isn't in keeping with the images around the exterior of the map. Since you're already using the stamp on the bottom left with the towers, maybe you could appropriate those towers for use on the map - it would be more appropriate.

Once again a map maker has to make his own decisions sometimes and give the map the direction he feels is more appropriate. I like the "cartoonish" approach and would like to keep it. The towers image was taken directly from the coat of arms of the city of San Marino.

Gameplay: again, very straightforward. I like the tower bonus, as it leaves room to collect a bonus on the sly. I'd maybe like to see the region borders a bit less heavy, as they could initially be confused as unpassables, but it's probably fine as is.

When I look at a new map, i try to imagine myself playing it and wondering what the most attractive starts would be. With that in mind, I don't much care for the two-territory +2 bonus, as it would be easy to start with this and have an automatic advantage over the rest of the field. I might also suggest you drop the bonus for the Chiesanuova region, as this will clearly be the most attractive start in the game; you leapfrog right from one small +2 to the next, never creating any additional borders to defend because you're protected by the range. You roll right along until you have a ten territory, +7 region (including the four towers) with only three borders to defend. Compare that to starting in the northeast, where you need 13 territories for a +7, and there's no easy to grab bonuses along the way.

For me what would mix things up a bit - and possibly make it more realistic to the actual region - would be to break up the one central mountain range and have more unpassable mountains throughout... rocky crags and the like.

overall really nice work so far.

Hmm perhaps you are right about the Montegiardino bonus. I don't want someone to get a lucky drop and have +2 at the start of the map. There are maps which have a 2 territory bonus like BeNeLux's Belgisch Brabant (+2) and I must admit that although I've played that map many times no one ever started with that regional bonus so far. Montegiardino can be attacked from 4 different territories though. Would it be fair to reduce its bonus to only +1?

Chiesanuova region. This could once again be similar to the BeNeLux map's Luxembourg bonus. In fact it's +1 in that map. Well I don't know, I guess we could reduce it to +1, but leaving Acquaviva and Citta' di San Marino as +2 would be fair then?

About the difference between East and West...yes the action will be mainly on the West side but drops usually distribute your armies around the whole map, so I don't think someone will get all his units on the Western part.

I would like to have more feedback about this bonuses issue from other users as well and see what they think as I'm undecided about what changes (if any) need to be done to the regional bonuses.

[gimil]

Which font do you want for the territory text?

Poll runs till Thu May 01, 2008 1:05 pm
You may select 1 option

Serravalle: Verdana – Bold - 10
3
37%

Domagnano: Trajan Pro – Bold - 10
1
12%

Faetano: Gill Sans – Regular – 12
0
No votes

Montegiardino: Arial – Bold – 10
0
No votes

Fiorentino: Century Gothic – Regular – 11
0
No votes

Borgo Maggiore: MS Sans Serif – Regular – 10
1
12%

Acquaviva: Franklin Gothic Book – Regular – 12
0
No votes

Citta’ di San Marino: Letter Gothic Std – Medium – 10
0
No votes

Chiesanuova: Copperplate Gothic Light – Regular – 10
3
37%


Total votes : 8

[sam_levi_11]

starting to really like this map, looks good and looks like it would be fun to play

thats all....oaktown couldnt you go after me not before

[Ruben Cassar]

ing to really like this map, looks good and looks like it would be fun to play

thats all....oaktown couldnt you go after me not before

Thanks Sam.

What about the bonuses? Does everyone like them or should there be any changes to the regional bonuses?

[Unit_2]

I like the text alot but its hard to see, change the color of it.

[Ruben Cassar]

I like the text alot but its hard to see, change the color of it.

The scope was to make the text less intrusive on the map because some people were complaining that the previous one was too bright and apparent.

[Ruben Cassar]

So does everyone agree with the bonuses on page 1?

No one has commented about them. Tell me what you think guys.

[trapyoung]

bonuses look good to me ruben, i also like the new look for the new description & images for the "yellow territories bonuses" - nice work

[Ruben Cassar]

bonuses look good to me ruben, i also like the new look for the new description & images for the "yellow territories bonuses" - nice work

Thanks trapyoung.

So I don't know what's next. If the bonuses are all right I'll just wait for more feedback from the mods and hope they grant me their stars.

[RjBeals]

Are you going to work on the outer border - so it's not so pixelated / jagged?
I see a strange horizontal line at the very top of this map? It could be where you applied a bevel or some sort of blend that effected the map edge. You should always work on a canvas size bigger than your final image size to avoid such things.
Can you work on your san marino emblem? Maybe make it look like a coin? Everything else has drop shadow but that.

Click image to enlarge.

[Ruben Cassar]

Are you going to work on the outer border - so it's not so pixelated / jagged?
I see a strange horizontal line at the very top of this map? It could be where you applied a bevel or some sort of blend that effected the map edge. You should always work on a canvas size bigger than your final image size to avoid such things.
Can you work on your san marino emblem? Maybe make it look like a coin? Everything else has drop shadow but that.

Yes I can work on those graphic issues but I was focusing on the gameplay issues right now.

The outer line is next in line. When you say emblem...are you referring to the flag? The coin is in the lower right corner.

[RjBeals]

Yes the coin is what i meant.

You don't want my comments on gameplay.

[Ruben Cassar]

Yes the coin is what i meant.

You don't want my comments on gameplay.

The coin. Ah. I'll see if it can be tweaked although I don't mind it as it is.

Yes, of course I want your comments about gameplay, although the way that sounded seems like it's going to be negative comments. Hehe. Did I ever tell you I have a heart condition? :p

[RjBeals]

Yes, of course I want your comments about gameplay...

You sure about that?