[Forum] Usergroup Leader Powers

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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby gimil on Tue May 13, 2008 4:29 am

Dancing Mustard wrote:Well it's been a while, and the kinks appear to be gone. Any progress?

When do clan leaders get the ability to rule with iron fists? This is a nice easy change to make, click the buttons and make it so.


Just remeber DM that there is alot more buttons than just one.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Tue May 13, 2008 6:12 am

Then press them all...
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Herakilla on Tue May 13, 2008 6:18 am

they are prolly afraid what what you will do to your subjects when you do get the powers :P
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Thu May 15, 2008 9:02 am

They should not fear.


Any news on this yet? Or is there still no progress?
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby dustn64 on Thu May 15, 2008 9:30 pm

Once this gets done, I expect tons of power hungry members will create tons of clans.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Herakilla on Thu May 15, 2008 10:47 pm

dustn64 wrote:Once this gets done, I expect tons of power hungry members will create tons of clans.


true but i dont think itll be a problem due to the requirements and if need be lack can always raise the requirements to prevent this
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 16, 2008 7:06 pm

After I finish up some duties (which may take a few hours :D) I'll see if I can make sense of it all again.


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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby yeti_c on Sat May 17, 2008 4:49 am

AndyDufresne wrote:After I finish up some duties (which may take a few hours :D) I'll see if I can make sense of it all again.


--Andy


Cool - looking forward to doing some spring cleaning!!

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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Sun May 18, 2008 8:43 am

This news makes DM smile.

@ Dustn: Meh, that happened when they permitted clans and it doesn't look like it did the place any harm...
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 21, 2008 4:20 pm

There is a snag, but we'll see if the people at phpBB can assist us. Stay tuned.


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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby owenshooter on Wed May 21, 2008 5:52 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:There is a snag, but we'll see if the people at phpBB can assist us. Stay tuned.
--Andy

yeah, i'm not going anywhere... this would be huge, especially for the clans that are regularly trolled by admins :shock: ...-0
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Gilligan on Wed May 21, 2008 5:52 pm

I remember one time way back in the day lack gave all leaders a day or two to clean up their clan, hence giving them full mod powers only in our clan.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Vace Cooper on Wed May 21, 2008 6:48 pm

Just want to say I agree with DM on getting the mod powers in subforums, and I've seen other threads about the same topic. I realize it's not something that can happen overnight. I fugured the more support on this topic the better.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby fwblb on Wed May 21, 2008 9:31 pm

Vace Cooper wrote: I fugured



haha.

yes, i would love some spring cleaning. tis the season. i was hoping we could erase some of our old threads to make it neater.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby jbrettlip on Wed May 21, 2008 11:03 pm

I agree. But I think Andy's avatar may be a racist caricature of my clan mate Owen. Iwas never so racially sensitive until Twill taught me how ignorant I was...Now my eyes are wide open to intolerance. Thanks, Twill!!!
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Thu May 22, 2008 7:06 am

Is there any chance that we could be told precisely what these alleged 'issues' are, rather than just being given another "We'll do it when we feel like it. There are things stopping us that we magically can't tell you about"?

What's the issue? There are mods for every forum under the sun here, but not clan forums. If all of the other moderating classes are up and running so smoothly, then what's the problem with this one?
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Fruitcake on Thu May 22, 2008 8:32 am

AndyDufresne wrote:There is a snag, but we'll see if the people at phpBB can assist us. Stay tuned.


--Andy


Good for you guys Andy.

On a serious note.

Sub forum moderation carried out by selected members of clans can only, ulitmately, assist the smooth running of the site. Time after time in 'real life' (did I just use that expression? Philosophically I sometimes wonder what that is....I digress) power delegated from the centre brings rich rewards. It has to be said that it brings risks, but positive benefits outweigh the negatives.

Centralisation of power stifles freedom of thought, expression and progress. Naturally a central control is still viable, and in fact, required, rules still need to be in place, and sub forum moderation needs its own checks and balances.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby yeti_c on Thu May 22, 2008 8:35 am

I was talking to Andy about this the other day on Skype...

He said that he was trying it out - but one of the problems was that the "usergroup mod" could now see the Moderator Control Panel for the entire board... which is obviously something that normal folks shouldn't have access to...

So I assume they need to talk to the people at PHPBB.com to work a Modification to stop this from happening.

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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Thu May 22, 2008 9:48 am

yeti_c wrote:He said that he was trying it out - but one of the problems was that the "usergroup mod" could now see the Moderator Control Panel for the entire board... which is obviously something that normal folks shouldn't have access to...

So hang on, are you saying
1. That usergroup mods could effectively moderate the whole board
or
2. That usergroup mods could just see how a moderator could moderate the whole board (i.e. they had the console but couldn't make it work).

Because number 1 seems very strange if we've already managed to limit powers to places (a la multi-hunters) and 2 just seems overly precious. I'm sure that people are well aware of what mods can and can't do, so seeing what the buttons look like ought not be a problem. I'm sure people would be very happy to live with having a few unecessary doodads on their screens until a fix could be effected...
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby yeti_c on Thu May 22, 2008 9:55 am

No I think he said it gave you a few more powers that you shouldn't need...

And it's probably the case that the Multi hunters have these - but they are trusted members of staff - and not lay people like you or me... and therefore can be trusted not to abuse said tools.

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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Thu May 22, 2008 10:16 am

yeti_c wrote:No I think he said it gave you a few more powers that you shouldn't need...

And it's probably the case that the Multi hunters have these - but they are trusted members of staff - and not lay people like you or me... and therefore can be trusted not to abuse said tools.

But if those powers were restricted to sub-forums, then what would the problem be? If somebody were to start acting like a twat with them, then people would just leave their clan... problem solved. What precisely is it that's so earth-shatteringly powerful that clan-leaders shouldnt' be allowed to do in their own personal sub-forums? Help me out here, what is it that Andy and Co are so terrified of giving us? I sure can't think of anything off the top of my head.

After all, what concern is it to anybody on this entire site (apart from members of the clan in question) what goes on in a sub-forum? People can leave at any time, and don't have to enter unless they want to. What tools is it that clan-leaders ought not have over their own private areas?

Unless there's some specific function that can't be turned off, that's allowing controlers to cause macro-effects outside of the sub-forum, then I fail to see a problem. I am of course happy to be contradicted if anybody in the know can give me some specific details about precisely what the 'problem' here is... after all, we're all still pretty much in the dark as to what the nature of the alleged 'technical hitches' are.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby yeti_c on Thu May 22, 2008 10:17 am

I have just told you what the problem is.

The Usergroup Mod would have access to something that the admins don't want you to have access to.

End of.

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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby Dancing Mustard on Thu May 22, 2008 11:03 am

yeti_c wrote:I have just told you what the problem is.

The Usergroup Mod would have access to something that the admins don't want you to have access to.

End of.

Oh come on, don't take that high-handed pompous tone, there's really no need for it and it gets us nowhere.

If there's something that we're not being given access to, then what is it, and what's the reason for that? I realise that "Not telling you. No giving feature because we say so." could indeed be given as the final word here, but wouldn't it be so much better if we all acted like adults and actually advanced some sane reasons for why that particular state of affairs was judged to be the best available?
This is a feature that has been promised for quite some time now, and I think I'm a big enough boy to be able to deal with the (no doubt mind-blowing) full answer as to why it's being delayed.
Don't get me wrong, if a simple "no" is all you require then that's fine by me, off you trot. But some of us here are quite keen on proper answers and reasoned explanations, so don't mind us if we stick around until we get one.

Also, don't think I'm being rude here; but perhaps you should take a back-seat for a few minutes until somebody actually 'in the know' is able to furnish us with such a proper answer? You're not a mod, you don't know anything more than you've already told us, and you don't appear to be up for rational debate. Just replying with "You have been told no. Shut up." to rational requests will inevitably turn apolite suggestions thread into a flame war, so cut it out.

The point I'm making here (as you seem to have missed it) is that I fail to see what power over a sub-forum could be given to Forum-Mods that would be detrimental to the site (unless what is being darkly referred to here is some 'macro' power like banning a user).
I was rather hoping for some clarification on that point rather than having somebody who once spoke to a mod on msn some time ago and heard them give an ambiguous offhand answer about the subject tell me that "somebody subjectively thinks something else would be a bad idea, so this is over immediately, even without you being told what the thing was and why the people think that".
This isn't pre-school, and some of us are able to comprehend (and as paying customers feel that we deserve) proper answers, instead of trite "yes/no/maybe" proclamations. It's not that I'm unwilling to accept that something can't be done right now, I'm just keen to know why precisely that is... is that really so much to ask for?

So thank you Yeti,
you've been very useful so far; but please desist with the patronising, pugnacious tone until somebody who knows what they're talking about arrives to give us all a clarification. We're big boys and girls here, and we quite like being treated like adults and told why deciscions get made. If you're content to just be told "no" and given no explanation then that's fine, but this is a serious discussion forum and everybody else here would like a serious answer.

Thanks. Bye.
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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 22, 2008 1:11 pm

The main point is sensitive info about a large number of users being available to a greater number of people. Some of it is moderator related, some of it more specifically user related (like IP Addresses, etc). Now everyone eat a banana. :)


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Re: Mod Powers in Sub-Forums

Postby yeti_c on Thu May 22, 2008 1:28 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:but please desist with the patronising tone


Hmmm - I'm pretty sure it is you with the patronising tone - I was merely trying to provide you with an answer and be useful... yet you are obviously far too supercillious to realise that.

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