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Re: Luxembourg - Map on pages 1 and 8 [I,Gp]

Postby fireedud on Fri May 23, 2008 1:40 pm

WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY BETTTTTTEEERR!!!!
me have no sig
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Re: Luxembourg - Map on pages 1 and 8 [I,Gp]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 23, 2008 1:42 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I like that much better. The top part of the German flag has some weirdness going on, though.

Maybe you could do the same style flag for the Luxembourg flag in the minimap area?


Didn't you know? It's because Germans are indeed weird people! :lol:

Hmm...no I want the Luxembourg flag in the mini map to be different from the others.

Anyway glad that you guys like these flags better.

Edit: I fixed the weirdness so it won't be there when I post my next update.
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Re: Luxembourg - New Flags on page 10 [I,Gp]

Postby pamoa on Sat May 24, 2008 2:59 am

much better!
De gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces, sommée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
Gules an open tower silver, crenellated three parts, topped by a apertured turret, crenellated two parts
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Re: Luxembourg - New Flags on page 10 [I,Gp]

Postby Timon on Sat May 24, 2008 8:43 am

kinda doodle earth..i like it
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Re: Luxembourg - New Flags on page 10 [I,Gp]

Postby gimil on Sat May 24, 2008 9:28 am

Image

love the flags BTW
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Re: Luxembourg - New Flags on page 10 [I,Gp]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat May 24, 2008 9:50 am

gimil wrote:Image

love the flags BTW


Thanks Gimil.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby whitestazn88 on Sun May 25, 2008 1:29 am

congrats on the new stamp...

i like it a lot. the bonuses are all really small and will make gameplay quick. not a big fan of the neutral city... i dunno if it has been discussed before, but i think that it should be left as a playable territ
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Tue May 27, 2008 11:06 pm

I'm not sure it's obvious enough that Luxembourg City is part of the Letzebuerg bonus.

It'd be a good idea to come out and just say that on the legend somewhere.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed May 28, 2008 2:45 am

edbeard wrote:I'm not sure it's obvious enough that Luxembourg City is part of the Letzebuerg bonus.

It'd be a good idea to come out and just say that on the legend somewhere.


It is not part of the Lëtzebuerg bonus. Check the mini map. They are marked as different bonuses and Luxembourg City has a white colour.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Wed May 28, 2008 4:28 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:
edbeard wrote:I'm not sure it's obvious enough that Luxembourg City is part of the Letzebuerg bonus.

It'd be a good idea to come out and just say that on the legend somewhere.


It is not part of the Lëtzebuerg bonus. Check the mini map. They are marked as different bonuses and Luxembourg City has a white colour.


so then how come the border around the north of the city is not like the other continent to continent borders?

before you had it called Luxembourg City and surroundings so I thought it was all of it combined. I don't see any reason to have one border different than the others.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed May 28, 2008 4:33 am

edbeard wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:
edbeard wrote:I'm not sure it's obvious enough that Luxembourg City is part of the Letzebuerg bonus.

It'd be a good idea to come out and just say that on the legend somewhere.


It is not part of the Lëtzebuerg bonus. Check the mini map. They are marked as different bonuses and Luxembourg City has a white colour.


so then how come the border around the north of the city is not like the other continent to continent borders?

before you had it called Luxembourg City and surroundings so I thought it was all of it combined. I don't see any reason to have one border different than the others.


I am assuming you did not read the previous posts about the same topic? Check it out a few pages before. However, no, it was never combined. Luxembourg City is a standalone territory. It has always been stated in the legend as well.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Wed May 28, 2008 4:47 am

yeaaaaa. Anyway the point was the border.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed May 28, 2008 4:55 am

edbeard wrote:yeaaaaa. Anyway the point was the border.


Yes I know. I explained that before as well. :) I guess I'll have to recap again for you.

The thing is that in reality Luxembourg the country, Luxembourg the region and Luxembourg the city all use the same name - Luxembourg! That's confusing so I used Luxembourg City and Lëtzebuerg (which is Luxembourg in Luxembourgish) as a name for the city and the region to differentiate between them.

Luxembourg City is in fact part of Lëtzebuerg (the region) in real life, but I made it a standalone region which starts as a neutral. That's why the border is different. The city not a region on its own...it's a kind of a separate territory within a region. However the bonuses are not linked and I think it's made clear in the legend and mini map.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Wed May 28, 2008 5:01 am

Well the name change to that region has definitely made it clear. But, if it's part of that region then why isn't it part of the region for the bonus? Gameplay issues probably made this the case and that's probably for the best and isn't even my point. It seems like a weird idea to have the border be different from all the others. Obviously it's to show the significance that it's part of that entire region but other than the different border it's not represented in any way on the map. I just don't see the point.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed May 28, 2008 5:12 am

edbeard wrote:Well the name change to that region has definitely made it clear. But, if it's part of that region then why isn't it part of the region for the bonus? Gameplay issues probably made this the case and that's probably for the best and isn't even my point. It seems like a weird idea to have the border be different from all the others. Obviously it's to show the significance that it's part of that entire region but other than the different border it's not represented in any way on the map. I just don't see the point.


I don't think this thing is such a big issue and I like it as it is to be honest. I am sure there will be no problems with gameplay while playing this map. It's very simple and straightforward.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed May 28, 2008 9:00 pm

I think it's a bit confusing as it is. I wasn't sure at first if Luxembourg City was part of the Letzebuerg bonus. Personally, I'd just make the border between the city and Letzebuerg the same as the border between all the other continents. Gameplay is more important to me than preserving a small bit of reality.

Alternatively, you could make Lux. City part of the Letzebuerg bonus. I think the current continent bonuses could stay the same even if you do that, since LC comes with it's own +1 bonus. It'd be like a subcontinent.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu May 29, 2008 2:59 am

ZeakCytho wrote:I think it's a bit confusing as it is. I wasn't sure at first if Luxembourg City was part of the Letzebuerg bonus. Personally, I'd just make the border between the city and Letzebuerg the same as the border between all the other continents. Gameplay is more important to me than preserving a small bit of reality.

Alternatively, you could make Lux. City part of the Letzebuerg bonus. I think the current continent bonuses could stay the same even if you do that, since LC comes with it's own +1 bonus. It'd be like a subcontinent.


Come on it's clear enough from the mini map and the legend. They have two different bonuses (see the numbers 3 and 1 on the mini map) and it states that Luxembourg City is a standalone territory. Some people also suggested I remove that statement because they said it was already too obvious but I kept it. It also has a different colour! I won't be changing it. This is not a complicated map...it's one of the most simple maps on CC.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu May 29, 2008 3:59 pm

So then why have the different-style border at all? I think having it to "preserve reality" isn't a very good reason in this case. Normally I'm all for realistic maps, but the map would be much simpler if LC was treated as its own continent with the same style as every other continent. Besides, the current border doesn't indicate that LC is part of Letzebuerg in real life very well at all.

But if no one else has a problem with this, I guess just leave it alone.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 29, 2008 6:51 pm

I am somewhat in agreement with Zeak, but I lean more toward the consistency argument (Though I've never been a fan of the continent separations as they are in this map, in any map!)

Also, Lux. City seems to oddly look visually higher (read: raised) than the southern blue continent. Same possibly could be said for Mull. too.

The text "Map Legend" seems redunant and only there to fill empty space. All the dead area this map...oddly draws me to look at it...because nothing is going on it. Seems a like a wasteland, and it's what I first notice. After I notice it, I'm pushed away by it all. I'm sure someone mentioned something about a texture...or really anything...to lessen the "generic feel" of the dead space surrounding the board...and the over all genericness.


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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu May 29, 2008 7:28 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I am somewhat in agreement with Zeak, but I lean more toward the consistency argument (Though I've never been a fan of the continent separations as they are in this map, in any map!)

Also, Lux. City seems to oddly look visually higher (read: raised) than the southern blue continent. Same possibly could be said for Mull. too.

The text "Map Legend" seems redunant and only there to fill empty space. All the dead area this map...oddly draws me to look at it...because nothing is going on it. Seems a like a wasteland, and it's what I first notice. After I notice it, I'm pushed away by it all. I'm sure someone mentioned something about a texture...or really anything...to lessen the "generic feel" of the dead space surrounding the board...and the over all genericness.


--Andy


That's strange. I used the same settings for all regions so it must be some kind of optical illusion.

About the map being a bit empty, the main target of this map is simplicity. I want the map to be simple and the focus to be on Luxembourg...the playable area. That's why I did not add any bells and whistles to the surrounding countries, because I don't believe the map needs them. I think it's quite a relaxing map to look at.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 29, 2008 7:39 pm

I agree, simplicity is something that can work wonderfully (a number of maps on the website show that), but I see this more as dead genericness...which is different than simplicity.

A cooking metaphor, if I may. Cooking naked (without all sorts of spices, sauces, seasonings, added extras) can produce some of the best and most delightful tastes if done properly---but when a few errors are made, the food can turn bland and rather unapetizing.

In any case, You and I rarely seem to agree on graphics, Ruben. :) This I know, going all the way back to the your Malta map's beginnnings! But I appreciate the civility we share, if in disagreement.


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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby The Viking on Fri May 30, 2008 6:15 am

I agree, I think it looks a bit too empty, especially in that big part of Germany.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 30, 2008 9:28 am

AndyDufresne wrote:I agree, simplicity is something that can work wonderfully (a number of maps on the website show that), but I see this more as dead genericness...which is different than simplicity.

A cooking metaphor, if I may. Cooking naked (without all sorts of spices, sauces, seasonings, added extras) can produce some of the best and most delightful tastes if done properly---but when a few errors are made, the food can turn bland and rather unapetizing.

In any case, You and I rarely seem to agree on graphics, Ruben. :) This I know, going all the way back to the your Malta map's beginnnings! But I appreciate the civility we share, if in disagreement.


--Andy


Thanks for that final comment Andy. I know that our views vis-a-vis graphics are often diametrically opposite but I always appreciate the constructive criticism you give me.

In fact you convinced me to experiment a bit with some textures for the adjacent countries even though I don't see the need for them. If I feel the end result is better I will post an image in the coming days when I manage to get some free time.
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Re: Luxembourg - map on page 1 & 10 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri May 30, 2008 2:17 pm

I have added some textures to the bordering states and put up a poll. I kept the textures subtle on purpose because I don't want to affect the simplicity of the map or detract the attention from Luxembourg itself.

Bordering States Texture Poll

1.11a
Image

1.11b
Image

1.11c
Image

1.11d
Image

1.11e
Image
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Re: Luxembourg - VOTE IN POLL on page 1 & 12 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Fri May 30, 2008 5:54 pm

I like the style of 1.11e the best, so I voted for it, but I'd prefer it if the texture were a bit more subtle - make the texture layer less opaque.
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