Conquer Club Racing [abandoned]

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Conquer Club Racing [abandoned]

Postby Ethitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:59 pm

Oops, made a mistake. The start shouldn't be auto-deploy. Also the booster should probably be 3 territories ahead, not 6.

Version 3:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Territories: ALOT, haven't decided on that yet.
Continents: None.
Power-ups:
-Missile: Can bombard all 6 territories ahead.
-Booster: Can attack the territories 6 spaces ahead
-Mine: Can bombard 4 territories behind.

So each player will start on the starting line and the first person to do 1 lap is the winner. I know what your thinking: this map would be pure luck. But I don't believe so, here are my reasons why:

1: People will be incredibly lucky and just plow through the map:
It's possible, but with the amount of territories there are and with a relatively large number of neutrals on each it should even out. So if 1 person gets ahead by being lucky, statistically you should catch up.

2: I still believe its based on luck:
No, think about it. Say someone gets 10 territories ahead of you, they can still only attack forwards. You can catch up by attacking there trailing territories (which might be only 1 army, not 4, unless they leave heaps of troops on their trailing territories. That's part of the strategy). Then you finish off their furthest army, they will then have to continue on 10 territories back, now you have the advantage. This can also bring about strategies of taking 2 or more different lanes.

3: Ok, starting to get ya, I'm still not convinced though.
There are power-up's to help out, take the first one for example. It bombards the territories ahead, which is not that much help for the person in first because they have to go through those territories anyway. Now people behind first place can bombard 1st's territories and bring 1st place back to their position.

Bottom line, I think there could be countless different strategies on this map. Team games would be interesting, there could be a number of shortcuts though to test your luck.


Let me know what you think and please, don't comment on the graphics! It is only meant to give you an idea!

There can be other kinds of power-ups, let me know if you have any ideas.
Last edited by Ethitts on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:22 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby moonarus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:06 pm

i think this is a pretty good idea, it could use some work. how do you label the territs? and how could the programer put the army circles with the territs being so small?

best of wishes for you - moon
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:24 pm

Ethitts wrote:I know the image is an absolute piece of crap, but put that aside and just think about the idea. I didn't want to draw a flashy map in case people wouldn't like the idea.


Ethitts wrote:Let me know what you think and please, don't comment on the graphics! It is only meant to give you an idea!


Thanks for your support though.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby moonarus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:27 pm

i'm also talking a bit of gameplay in that post too.

but if u want: you might want to make some sort of goal, is it to own the start or kill the other racer? i think if you design the XML corectly you could make it like that.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:36 pm

moonarus wrote:i'm also talking a bit of gameplay in that post too.

but if u want: you might want to make some sort of goal, is it to own the start or kill the other racer? i think if you design the XML corectly you could make it like that.


Hmmm, I mustn't have made it clear in my first post. The objective is to finish the race (be first to do 1 lap). It wasn't really drawn correctly in the draft, but the start/finish line would be 2 territories each lane. A starting territory and a finishing territory. If it was agreed upon as the game play of the map, you wouldn't be able to finish off an opponent because you can only attack forwards, always at least leaving your starting position alive.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby moonarus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:45 pm

Ethitts wrote:
moonarus wrote:i'm also talking a bit of gameplay in that post too.

but if u want: you might want to make some sort of goal, is it to own the start or kill the other racer? i think if you design the XML corectly you could make it like that.


Hmmm, I mustn't have made it clear in my first post. The objective is to finish the race (be first to do 1 lap). It wasn't really drawn correctly in the draft, but the start/finish line would be 2 territories each lane. A starting territory and a finishing territory. If it was agreed upon as the game play of the map, you wouldn't be able to finish off an opponent because you can only attack forwards, always at least leaving your starting position alive.


i think that the people should start on the line before the start, because the XML should make them all win, i don't think there's a way around that. and with the XML you're gonna have to program every single one of the 160-some territories you have.

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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:31 pm

Problem 1: This looks in concept like Circus maximus, just longer and the "zomg, dead" element of that map removed. Perhaps a ranged attack a la Waterloo?
Problem 2: The powerups seem contrived and uninteresting, and way too scarce to justify their existence.
Problem 3: Wall isn't possible in the XML right now. Perhaps have them more plentiful and make it a massive killer neutral? (oh wait, that's Maze Craze, and still not possible in the XML...)

Possibilities:
- UNLIKE Circus Maximus, bonuses for holding sections of the track.
- More powerup ideas
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:53 pm

The idea looks alright, but it will need a LOT of work if you ever hope to get this play-worthy. Not just graphics, but the entire gameplay will be debated on for a long time and will require lots of thought. I'm not sure whether I would play it or not. It is still too early to tell.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:11 pm

TaCktiX wrote:Problem 1: This looks in concept like Circus maximus, just longer and the "zomg, dead" element of that map removed. Perhaps a ranged attack a la Waterloo?
Problem 2: The powerups seem contrived and uninteresting, and way too scarce to justify their existence.
Problem 3: Wall isn't possible in the XML right now. Perhaps have them more plentiful and make it a massive killer neutral? (oh wait, that's Maze Craze, and still not possible in the XML...)

Possibilities:
- UNLIKE Circus Maximus, bonuses for holding sections of the track.
- More powerup ideas


I think your missing the concept here, this would be an object driven map. It's in the same layout as circus maximus yes, but game play is much different. It's meant to be a race, not a war.

As for the bonuses, your right. They are scarce and unoriginal, but that's the whole point of posting this idea, to get feedback and the ideas of other members. I would love to do this map in the style of Mario Cart (on Nintendo 64). But I'm not sure what power-ups would be possible with the XML.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:03 am

Why not put a couple pit stops halfway through the track? They could give you a bonus (say +5 guys) but would also be a killer neutral, similar to the missile launch in arms race. You get the bonus, but you don't keep the territory. This makes sense because in a real race, pit crews give you gas/tires to keep racing (where the +5 comes in) but you never stay in the pits for that long. You are always out as fast as you can.

Also, don't feel limited to having the track stay in one continuous line. Why not have branches at certain points where the track splits in two? one side could be shorter, but the other side might give you more bonuses. There are a lot of possibilities with this map. Don't feel limited.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby RjBeals on Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:31 am

TaCktiX wrote:Problem 1: This looks in concept like Circus maximus, just longer and the "zomg, dead" element of that map removed. Perhaps a ranged attack a la Waterloo?
Problem 2: The powerups seem contrived and uninteresting, and way too scarce to justify their existence.
Problem 3: Wall isn't possible in the XML right now. Perhaps have them more plentiful and make it a massive killer neutral? (oh wait, that's Maze Craze, and still not possible in the XML...)


Completely disagree. I think this is a great Idea. I fully support you on this. Power-ups are a great idea. Maybe add some oil slicks in there also, or fallen down trees covering the track, to force a bottleneck onto 1 lane? Or to force someone to take the long way around? What would the starting-turn bonus be, an auto 10 deployment? Or would it be based on how many squares you own?
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby RjBeals on Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:32 am

Mr. Squirrel wrote:Why not put a couple pit stops halfway through the track? They could give you a bonus (say +5 guys) but would also be a killer neutral, similar to the missile launch in arms race. You get the bonus, but you don't keep the territory. This makes sense because in a real race, pit crews give you gas/tires to keep racing (where the +5 comes in) but you never stay in the pits for that long. You are always out as fast as you can.

Also, don't feel limited to having the track stay in one continuous line. Why not have branches at certain points where the track splits in two? one side could be shorter, but the other side might give you more bonuses. There are a lot of possibilities with this map. Don't feel limited.


Agree. Pit Stop would also be very cool. You get the additional bonus for occupying it, but your armies automatically turn back to the killer neutral (3 or 5 or whatever). That way you could put your additional bonus wherever you want.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby max is gr8 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:47 am

What about having the inner lanes go further so 1 on the innermost lane is 2 on the outer lane and 1.5 in the middle lane, remember it's like that on other maps.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:36 pm

it's a bit like circus maximus, but with bonusses, however i don't think there is an XML code to get the yellow spaces to work.

i think you should either make them bombard backwards (to counter the red spaces used against you if you are the 1, 2nd or 3rd player for example)

you also have to consider if this map will be suitable for different settings, like team games or assassin games (will it just be a slaugther-fest or will player actually race for the finish)

is it doable for both 2 players and 8 players or is this map mainly suitable only for a specific game number?

also you might want some 'power up' that adds you like 2 armies a turn for holding it, might be also a 'power up' that autodeploys and is able to bombard either forward or backward, or both.

you will also need to make sure the checkpoints won't get abused (someone taking multiple checkpoints and getting a huge bonus for it, or someone constantly 'driving back (by deploying their armies just before one checkpoint and killing off their enemies so they won't get a bonus)

the latter maybe part of startegy so it might be fine to leave that option open, but at least you should make it so that you are only allowed to get 1 bonus for each 'checkpoint-line' you get, no matter you hold 1 lane or 5


as for the wall, any territory that autodeploys will most likely either just stack armies on it (especially in chained or even adjacent fortification) and therefore effectifly create a 'wall' after a few turns, people might want to just drive around it, other might use it as a part of their strategy to stop other players from catching up. might be a neat trick to add a 'wall' like this in a shortcut, go figure. like you have a 1 lane shortcut in the outer lane, that has a bridge over the lanes and getting in again in the inner lane at some point, and it might have a 'boost' or heck even a 'jumping platform' if you like that launches you like 6 or 8 or whatever amount of spaces ahead, though while you use that boost or jumping platform or whatsoever, you might just fly over some other nice territory that might aid in your stategy (some power up that might grand you a bonus of +1 or +2 armies or something, whatever i don't know yet, something that might or might not be worth the risk of skipping a few fields over picking up a neat powerup), however a few fields later there might be a 'wall' as i described (leaving an autodeployed bonus on it, since with the current XML i can't think of any other thing that could better suit the rule of a 'wall', at least not now) and remember it's a shortcut with just 1 lane, so you'll HAVE to get past that wall. so the first player using that shortcut might get an advantage, however, since the powerups have many neutrals on them compared to regular tiles, if someone is following his trail and is less then a few turns behind, then someone might just run over his wall before it got sufficient deployments on it for it to become efficient. now that will make up for some fun! also note this particular shortcut being on the outer lane, and while you could make all the lanes of equal length, why not make the outer lane longer? you can of course try to fight the other races for getting the inner lane, however you'll have to fight for control of the inner lane, and also, the inner lane will have more neutrals on the inner curves, since it's harder to maintain the 'perfect curve' and by placing a shortcut (or the most important one) on the outer lane you'll leave the players an important choice, should i go for the shortcut on the outer lane, or should i just take the inner lane? or should i try to avoid most of the mess on both lanes and just take the middle lane? it's your call!
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:11 pm

Mr. Squirrel wrote:Why not put a couple pit stops halfway through the track? They could give you a bonus (say +5 guys) but would also be a killer neutral, similar to the missile launch in arms race. You get the bonus, but you don't keep the territory. This makes sense because in a real race, pit crews give you gas/tires to keep racing (where the +5 comes in) but you never stay in the pits for that long. You are always out as fast as you can.

Also, don't feel limited to having the track stay in one continuous line. Why not have branches at certain points where the track splits in two? one side could be shorter, but the other side might give you more bonuses. There are a lot of possibilities with this map. Don't feel limited.


i don't think this would work, since if one of the territories required for the bonus is a killer neutral, i don't think you'll get the bonus in the first place. in arms race only the missile launch get's back to neutral, while the missile itselfs (which gives you the bonus, if you meet the requirements at least) stays as it is. you could however make it so that the pitstop (the middle) will give you a bonus, but as soon as you hold both the pitstop and the end of the pitstop (or the race track that is past the pitstop to avoid people abusing this system) it will override the bonus and revert the bonus back to 0, a few problems with this might be: someone waiting a few turns and building up a massive army at the pitstop, then going out of the pitstop and make a race for the finish all off a sudden, this is petty much the opposite of what is normal in racing (since if you have been for too long in the pit stop, it's pretty much race over for you) and also whenever a person has held the pitstop, because of the overrides there will always apair this line in the log: player X recieves 0 armies for exiting the pitstop. will apair every time a player that has exited the pitstop takes his turn. i think that isn't as much of a problem s the first issue though. hmm i might think of a way to solve that one but i can't think of anything atm.

edit well maybe i do. maybe if you'd make a checkpoint just past the pitstop, this will stimulate the people to go out of the pitstop and therefore resetting their bonus again (though some might not) and if you put an override on the bonus for holding the checkpoint, you won't spam the log with useless lines either.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby max is gr8 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:16 pm

What about an objective to hold the start/finish line with the 2 checkpoints
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:22 pm

Ethitts wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:Problem 1: This looks in concept like Circus maximus, just longer and the "zomg, dead" element of that map removed. Perhaps a ranged attack a la Waterloo?
Problem 2: The powerups seem contrived and uninteresting, and way too scarce to justify their existence.
Problem 3: Wall isn't possible in the XML right now. Perhaps have them more plentiful and make it a massive killer neutral? (oh wait, that's Maze Craze, and still not possible in the XML...)

Possibilities:
- UNLIKE Circus Maximus, bonuses for holding sections of the track.
- More powerup ideas


I think your missing the concept here, this would be an object driven map. It's in the same layout as circus maximus yes, but game play is much different. It's meant to be a race, not a war.

As for the bonuses, your right. They are scarce and unoriginal, but that's the whole point of posting this idea, to get feedback and the ideas of other members. I would love to do this map in the style of Mario Cart (on Nintendo 64). But I'm not sure what power-ups would be possible with the XML.


then add thunder, a way overpowered piece that can bombard all other territories :lol: it might be a bit overkill but at least it will be fucking hilarious
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:25 pm

RjBeals wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:Problem 1: This looks in concept like Circus maximus, just longer and the "zomg, dead" element of that map removed. Perhaps a ranged attack a la Waterloo?
Problem 2: The powerups seem contrived and uninteresting, and way too scarce to justify their existence.
Problem 3: Wall isn't possible in the XML right now. Perhaps have them more plentiful and make it a massive killer neutral? (oh wait, that's Maze Craze, and still not possible in the XML...)


Completely disagree. I think this is a great Idea. I fully support you on this. Power-ups are a great idea. Maybe add some oil slicks in there also, or fallen down trees covering the track, to force a bottleneck onto 1 lane? Or to force someone to take the long way around? What would the starting-turn bonus be, an auto 10 deployment? Or would it be based on how many squares you own?


i think you should reset the (territories owned/3) bonus for this map and just hand out a 5/6/7/8/9/10 or whatever amount of armies (non-autodeploy) regartless of how many territories you own. (and yes, that's possible with the current XML) heck you can even give someone less armies for holding more territories.

now actually that would be pretty fun (and it will also look like you need gas to drive, nearing the finish, you are nearly out of gas and your tires are all crappy and it becomes harder to steer and such :lol:
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby seamusk on Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:56 pm

Lots of good ideas bouncing around. I'm not a racecar fan so the theme doesn't personally intrigue me personally but I think this will have wide appeal on the site. And if the gameplay is good enough I'll play it even if you make the graphics worse. I would do something along the lines of what is suggested above. Flatten the deploy or even negative it (also doable).

Another option along the lines of another suggestion above is to require not just that someone hold the finish line but more. You could require that the winner hold an entire path or something.

I have some similar gameplay I'm toying with on a different theme. I'll just be sure that if I decide to develop my map it is distinctly unique from whatever you use here.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:12 pm

I think this idea is perfectly plausible and could be a good map if the graphics are of a high quality. That being said, I don't think I would ever play it. I just don't like maps that are objective-driven like this. But I highly encourage you to keep developing this map. I might stop by a few times to comment on different bits, too. Good luck with this.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:15 pm

Wow, I'm actaully getting a really good response with this. I don't have time to read all the posts right but I will later today. Looks like I might have to give this map a go!
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:55 pm

Ethitts wrote:Wow, I'm actaully getting a really good response with this. I don't have time to read all the posts right but I will later today. Looks like I might have to give this map a go!


we defenitly need more objective map and maps with different strategy, and different playing styles. about half of the maps (i think even more then that) are just classic-clones on another location, and there's nothing wrong with that. but they are for from original, and this map is original and has very much potential, therefore i'll do my best to support you with my creative idea's and i might even help you to get the XML done if you want me to. (when it's time for that off course)
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owenshooter wrote:i disagree with you and i'm right!

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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:19 pm

Ok i've read through all the posts and I'll comment on what I can remember was mentioned.

Pit stops: Great idea, I'll add some when I do a proper draft.

Oil slicks, fallen down trees, potholes etc: Great idea, I'll add those too and other ideas. Maybe different areas on the track (dirt, tarceal, forest parts, shallow river crossing).

Inner lanes shorter, outer lanes longer: Maybe, depends what everyone thinks. It would be a good idea as it would create more strategy and possibly also create more conflict.

Starting turn bonus: I think the territories/3 should be completely taken out because this game play isn't based at all on how many territories you own. Just a flat rate non-auto-deploy I think.

Victory condition: I would only want the victory to be capturing 1 of the finish line territories because that's all you have to do in a race.

Damn, out of time. Zimmah i'll comment on your wall/power-up ideas later and anyones elses ideas I haven't touched on yet.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Ethitts on Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:33 pm

I just started doing a decent draft for this map and I don't think it's going to work (at least not the way that I'd like it to). There just isn't enough room on a map for a whole racetrack of 8 lanes. But 8 lanes would be needed for 8 player. Then there's not too mention all the gimmicks that can go with the map (shortcuts, alternate routes, etc). I might keep trying and see what I can come up with, but I can't see it working.
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Re: Conquer Club Racing

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:27 pm

Ethitts wrote:I just started doing a decent draft for this map and I don't think it's going to work (at least not the way that I'd like it to). There just isn't enough room on a map for a whole racetrack of 8 lanes. But 8 lanes would be needed for 8 player. Then there's not too mention all the gimmicks that can go with the map (shortcuts, alternate routes, etc). I might keep trying and see what I can come up with, but I can't see it working.


You don't have to make the track 8 lanes wide. Why not make it only four? Here is a draft of what I mean. Excuse the messiness, but I made in 30 seconds in paint. The black and white rectangles are the starting line/starting territories and the blue squares are the actual territories on the track.

Click image to enlarge.
image


This will cut the track size in half and leave you more room to add other things. It will also make it more competitive because not everyone can fit in one lane anymore.
Last edited by Mr. Squirrel on Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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