Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns [Done]

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Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns [Done]

Postby ZawBanjito on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:58 am

Even if double turns are not allowed, sometimes it still effectively occurs. In a game I just played I took Europe, but was unable to defend it. My opponent (only one now remained) started his turn at once and positioned armies to take me out of the continent. However, before he could, I started my turn and got the 5 man bonus and pretty much ended the game. Then afterwards I felt bad about it, and now that I think about it I've done this (although with far less immediate impact) many times.

Even without double turns all you're waiting for is someone to START their next turn, so if you're quick you can still press/create an advantage equivalent to an actual double turn. This strikes me as not consistent with the spirit of the double turn prohibition.

I propose amending it so that the last player of a round cannot take their next turn until at least one other player has FINISHED theirs.

This would make a game with only two players remaining sequential.


For your kind consideration,

Zaw
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Postby Ran Taro on Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:11 am

I agree.

I also think that a (deadbeat) player missing a turn shouldn't count as the last player in a round. At the moment if you are the last active player who takes their turn in a round, you can effectively get a double turn - because the deadbeats turn will always come after you.

This strikes me as against the spirit of "no double turns".
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Postby ZawBanjito on Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:47 am

Oooh, didn't think of that one. Excellent point. I concur: that too seems like a fake double move.
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:52 am

Even without double turns all you're waiting for is someone to START their next turn, so if you're quick you can still press/create an advantage equivalent to an actual double turn. This strikes me as not consistent with the spirit of the double turn prohibition.

Okay, I agree with you on this. But what if the other players can attack and only end their turns 5 minutes before the end of round (locking you out for the round)?

I also think that a (deadbeat) player missing a turn shouldn't count as the last player in a round. At the moment if you are the last active player who takes their turn in a round, you can effectively get a double turn - because the deadbeats turn will always come after you.

To me, a double turn was when your turn triggers a new round and you go again immediately. That's not the same as a you->round expires->you move, which was not blocked. But I guess that players who wait untill 5 mins before end of round can effectively benefit from a double turn.

So, how's this for a solution? The last player to begin a turn in a round (whether or not everyone played that round) cannot take a second turn untill either (a) another player ends a turn or (b) 12 hours have passed.
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Postby molestar on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:45 am

12 Hour rule RULES
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Opinion

Postby Datacup on Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:16 pm

I gave my opinion about this in another topic. I think that the game should not allow simultaneous playing. Or at least it should have an option that you could choose.

For me, it is very frustrating to play nervous because someone may be playing at the same time and taking the country I left weak but plan to fortify when I finish my attacks.

I don't like sequential game (each turn takes a lot of time) but I think that when someone starts his round, no one should play until he ends.

BTW, it would solve the problem of this topic. :)
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:13 pm

How would loking the game during his turn prevent a player from taking a double turn :?
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Postby LoGiFA on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:12 pm

I think that the game should not allow simultaneous playing.


What if they decide to start and not play, thus locking you out.
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Postby ZawBanjito on Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:19 am

Okay, I see the problem, Lackattack...

Actually, I thought of another: In a three player game, if it's going fast, two players could move together and effectively keep the third always going last. So how about, if you go last in a turn (not including deadbeats) you can't move again until a) another player finishes their turn, b) 12 hours have passed, or c) two other players have started their turn.

This doesn't completely solve the original worry, but I believe it would considerably alleviate it. I don't want the chaos of simultaneous play to vanish because I enjoy it (sometimes.)

Datacup, perhaps when speed games are put in next month there won't seem such an issue, because you could have a sequential game and not have it take so long.
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Postby Ran Taro on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:06 pm

What if they decide to start and not play, thus locking you out.


You'd have to have a limit on turn time (1hour?).
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Postby Datacup on Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:32 pm

lackattack, locking the game would prevent fake double turns because the last guy to play would have to wait the first guy of the next round finish his turn... so it wouldnt be a double turn ;)

I dont think simultaneous playing is exciting, but this is a personal opinion. If I am playing while I drink my morning coffee, I want to think about my steps and not rush to be faster than my enemy. :? Well... it seems that Im the minority about this subject hehehe :roll:
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Problem with freestyle (AND A SOLUTION)

Postby Dlakavi on Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:43 am

When you play doubles with 4 players or triples there is an exploit.
It goes like this(for example triples):
Team 1 played their turn.
Now Team 2 plays, but only 2 players from team 2 play(one of them deadbeats).
They both take a continent/very large number of countries and all of them wait till the end of 24 hours.
Now all of them begin the next turn and kick team 1nes ass because of their largew advantage in reinforcements.


Solution:
New play type:
Seqential freestyle:
Team 1 has 24 hours to play(they can play at the same time, one after another, whatever).
Then team 2 has 24 hours to play(same as team 1).
Hope you understand, it is all the many options of freestyle without the double turn/turn synching problem.

Questions and comments?

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I agree

Postby sadistic on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:21 am

What makes conquer club unique is what it says on the homepage:

Designed for the casual gamer, playing Conquer Club is not a time consuming process. You can take your turn in 5 minutes with your morning cup of coffee or in between classes.

In this thread I describe what happened to us in game 105891 where 2 guys exploited a bug that allowed one of their guys to take 2 turns in a row by his teammate missing a turn.

We had the map locked down and then because they did this they got +18 armies (in flat rate game) and before that one of them was just about eliminated from the game and the other guy didn't have a country...
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Postby Dlakavi on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:23 am

Yes, my suggestion solves this problem of yours
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Postby RexRegis on Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:38 pm

the suggestion solves that problem, but creates the problem with unbalanced turns...

and one great thing with teamgames is that you can let one player open up a path and when the enemy bites the bate you close the path behind him.
I could say something interesting, but I wont
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Postby Evil Semp on Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:26 pm

The trouble with the solution you described is if al the players on Team 1 gets to play before Team 2 gets a chance to play they can kill someone from Team 2 before they even get a turn. At least in freestyle they have a chance to play.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:29 pm

I agree with Semp, there are advantages and drawbacks to it all.


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Postby river-reids on Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:03 pm

wouldnt it just work... if one player misses a turn... that team still goes down as the last team to finish... hence not being able to start first..

thats what happens in team games, the last team to take there turn cant be the first to play the next turn. why cant it be like that if one of the team misses a turn?

what happened to sadistic and i is not fair and is not in the spirit of the game. we where in a good position to win that game.
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Postby Dlakavi on Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:21 am

Evil Semp wrote:The trouble with the solution you described is if al the players on Team 1 gets to play before Team 2 gets a chance to play they can kill someone from Team 2 before they even get a turn. At least in freestyle they have a chance to play.


The chances of that are really slim, and anyway, if team 2 knows each other they will all join at the same time and play before team 1, right?
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Postby Evil Semp on Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:28 pm

Dlakavi wrote:The chances of that are really slim, and anyway, if team 2 knows each other they will all join at the same time and play before team 1, right?


They way I understand the solution posted in this thread is Team 1 goes first then Team 2 which puts Team 2 at an extreme disadvantage. At least in freestyle the way it is played now both teams have a chance to go first.
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Postby Dlakavi on Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 pm

Yes, you undestand correctly.
But, when me and m friends join a freestyle, we join as team 2, and play right away, before anyone in team 1(they should be on the computer in those precise 5 minutes)

I dont know, i think that it should be tried for a couple of beta games (They dont have to be programmed, only 6 guys meet and play 10 games, in 5 games Team 2 waits for team 1 to complete a turn all the time and in 5 games the oposite)
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Fix for freestyle games give other team 5 mins to play trick

Postby stlcard1521 on Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:35 pm

You know how in freestyle games when it gets down to 2 players or in team games, some ass holes will wait till the last 5 minutes of a round to play their turn so you get screwed and lose your turn? why not only give that person maybe 12 or 16 hours or so to play their turn before opening it up and allowing both teams/opponentst to play their turn to get rid of that cheap trick? that way both sides have a reasonable amount of time to get their turn in, and i think it still preserves the "low involvement, be able to only spend 5 minutes a day" philosophy



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Postby SirSebstar on Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:19 am

a far simpler sulution would be to put the time to 48 hours for time to run out.
and after 24 the other team is allowed to play if you have not made a move...

deadbeats are annoying then, but at least you dont get shorted out playing.
i do my turns in the morning, with a 12 hour limit i dont get to sleep.
with 24 hours, i do!
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Postby MTA-M on Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

SirSebstar wrote:a far simpler sulution would be to put the time to 48 hours for time to run out.
and after 24 the other team is allowed to play if you have not made a move...

deadbeats are annoying then, but at least you dont get shorted out playing.
i do my turns in the morning, with a 12 hour limit i dont get to sleep.
with 24 hours, i do!


You could also only start the 24 hours from the moment you are able to play. So everybody has 24 hours to take their turn. So then it will have no use for someone to wait untill the last 5 minutes, because there opponents click will only start when they start their turn, and they won't have just 5 min, but still 24 hours.

Example: Player 1 was the last in a turn, and can't start the next round. The first other player takes his turn after 23 hours. The rest of the players have only 1 hour from then, but player 1 has 24 hours from that time.
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:40 pm

It takes three turns to deadbeat, sort of a hard situation to pull off
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