WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:40 pm

[quote="BENJIKAT IS DEAD"][quote="cairnswk"]XML has been fixed and uploaded.[/quote]

great!!

btw I'm 14-0 and counting already :)[/quote]

so spread the word.....is it an easy map?

Oh and PM me with your secrets of success please. :-)
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby Suzy1 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:42 pm

Another great map by you cairns, I really enjoy your maps!
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:57 pm

Suzy1 wrote:Another great map by you cairns, I really enjoy your maps!

Wow, thanks Suzy1. Can i ask you to spread your joy to playing friends.... :)
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:58 pm

BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:
cairnswk wrote:XML has been fixed and uploaded.


great!!

btw I'm 14-0 and counting already :)


i wonder how many he's up to now???
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:49 am

cairnswk wrote:
BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:
cairnswk wrote:XML has been fixed and uploaded.


great!!

btw I'm 14-0 and counting already :)


so spread the word.....is it an easy map?

Oh and PM me with your secrets of success please. :-)


I'm 33-4 now (all foggy 1v1s). Due to the smaller number of starting territories and the difficulty of getting at some of the bonuses, it is much harder winning from second than it is on Waterloo. In particular I am not a fan of thew Free French at all, and think that any single territory bonuses should start neutral. Most the games are won with the +4 for The Cauldron.

You'll be pleased to know that I did win one game from behind by pulling off both Rommel and Panzerarmee on the same turn (remember the fog).

It is not an easy map at all, but mainly because there are a number of different things going on - one-way, bombardments etc.

BTW - there are a couple of quirks of the design that i think could do with attention (I know I didn't say anything earlier, but I couldn't play it earlier - roll on the playtest area):

1) For the first few games I kept on thinking that Italian 1/10 and Italian 2/10 connect - the 2 roads either need to join to GL4 seperately, or you could make them connect in the XML

2) A way of making ther Free French a little easier to hit would be to add a second one-way attack from Panzerarmee B - that way if you get a drop on either branch of the Panzerarmee then you can reach it

Obv this is only based on 1v1 fog, we shall have to wait to see what standard games are like.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:18 am

on the tanks E, & P there are cyan coloured mortar shells but i can't find the cyan mortar to attack those two sites from. can someone give me directions ?
Last edited by greenoaks on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:20 am

greenoaks wrote:on the tanks p & q there are cyan coloured mortar shells but i can't find the cyan mortars to attack those two sites from. can someone give me directions ?


British 7th brigade...

The mortar just to the left of those 2 tanks.

C.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:24 am

yeti_c wrote:
greenoaks wrote:on the tanks p & q there are cyan coloured mortar shells but i can't find the cyan mortars to attack those two sites from. can someone give me directions ?


British 7th brigade...

The mortar just to the left of those 2 tanks.

C.
thanks yeti but that is a green mortar. i want the cyan one.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:26 am

greenoaks wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
greenoaks wrote:on the tanks p & q there are cyan coloured mortar shells but i can't find the cyan mortars to attack those two sites from. can someone give me directions ?


British 7th brigade...

The mortar just to the left of those 2 tanks.

C.
thanks yeti but that is a green mortar. i want the cyan one.


No no - that is the Cyan one...

There are only 4 (I think) Red Blue Yellow & Cyan(/green)

C.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:00 am

i can see 4 mortars but they are Red, Yellow, Blue & Green. no Cyan

if you look at Game 2198055 at tank E, cyan has two armies on it, which is the same colour as one of the shells at E. also there is a clear difference in colour between the shell on the right at E and the one directly above it at F (which is green)

in Game 2198944 at tank P Cyan has 2 armies which is the same colour as the shell at P. the colour of that shell matches the one at E, not the ones at F or K.

i also think tank Q is a Cyan coloured shell.

so is this a bug regarding colour. or
is red suppose to bombard 2 places,
blue is suppose to bombard 3 places,
yellow is suppose to bombard 4 places,
& green is suppose to bombard 5
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:26 am

greenoaks wrote:is red suppose to bombard 2 places,
blue is suppose to bombard 3 places,
yellow is suppose to bombard 4 places,
& green is suppose to bombard 5


Red = 3
Blue = 4
Yellow = 4
Green/Cyan = 5

I do agree tho - the mortar itself seems to be a slightly different colour to the shells... you'll have to wait til Cairns comes back to explain why!!

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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:18 am

greenoaks wrote:i can see 4 mortars but they are Red, Yellow, Blue & Green. no Cyan

if you look at Game 2198055 at tank E, cyan has two armies on it, which is the same colour as one of the shells at E.

There is no correlation between the army colours and the shell/mortar colours, which i guess is what you;re examining here.
also there is a clear difference in colour between the shell on the right at E and the one directly above it at F (which is green)
actually there is no difference...they are both #35D786, i believe the colour difference is originating from the combination of neighbouring colours next door to these two shells.

in Game 2198944 at tank P Cyan has 2 armies which is the same colour as the shell at P. the colour of that shell matches the one at E, not the ones at F or K.

All of these shells are #35D786, forget trying to match these colours with the army colour as they are not the same. It is the mortar at British 7th M. Brigade that is a different colour being #00CC66 which i don't see as begin a problem since it is so close to the shells colours anyway, but will upload a correction image for both l&s maps.

i also think tank Q is a Cyan coloured shell.
no, its the same as it's siblings.

so is this a bug regarding colour. or
bug, if you want to call one poofteenth of a difference a problem. since the xml is correct, then i see no issue.
is red suppose to bombard 2 places,
red bombard 3 places. j,o,p (xml correct)
blue is suppose to bombard 3 places,
blue bombards 4 places, b,d,e,j (xml correct)
yellow is suppose to bombard 4 places,
yellow bombards 4 places, f,g,k,l (xml correct)
& green is suppose to bombard 5
green bombards 5 places e,f,k,p,q.(xml correct)


hi lackattack,
someone has picked up a poofteenth of a colour difference in the mortar to shell colours...here are the corrects for S & L...
if you'd be so kind to upload.
Thanks
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... laV27S.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... laV27L.jpg

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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:47 pm

i wasn't trying to cause trouble cairns. i have spent the last 2 days trying to find the corresponding mortar, running my finger methodically up and down that map to cover every inch of it, squinting, leaning up close to the screen & then doing all that again on the next map. i just could not work out how i was missing it every single time.

i have noticed that colour on every map i have played regardless of what colour army is beside it, including the neutral question marks. the 2 games i provided links to were to show yeti they looked cyan not green like the mortar or the shells at F or K.

i am currently in or have completed 14, while awaiting players in another 9 because this is currently my favourite map. great map, well done. =D>
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:12 pm

greenoaks wrote:i wasn't trying to cause trouble cairns. i have spent the last 2 days trying to find the corresponding mortar, running my finger methodically up and down that map to cover every inch of it, squinting, leaning up close to the screen & then doing all that again on the next map. i just could not work out how i was missing it every single time.

i have noticed that colour on every map i have played regardless of what colour army is beside it, including the neutral question marks. the 2 games i provided links to were to show yeti they looked cyan not green like the mortar or the shells at F or K.

i am currently in or have completed 14, while awaiting players in another 9 because this is currently my favourite map. great map, well done. =D>


If you struggle to see the connections that much - you need BOB in your life!

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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:20 pm

greenoaks wrote:i wasn't trying to cause trouble cairns.

I don't beleive you were trying to cause trouble either, just wanting clarification on you saw as an issue.
This is why it is very important, and i know ytou are already participating, that as many people as possible give feedback to maps to ensure they go live correct.

i have spent the last 2 days trying to find the corresponding mortar, running my finger methodically up and down that map to cover every inch of it, squinting, leaning up close to the screen & then doing all that again on the next map. i just could not work out how i was missing it every single time.

i have noticed that colour on every map i have played regardless of what colour army is beside it, including the neutral question marks. the 2 games i provided links to were to show yeti they looked cyan not green like the mortar or the shells at F or K.

i am currently in or have completed 14, while awaiting players in another 9 because this is currently my favourite map. great map, well done. =D>

Do you not use BOB, or take notice of what the xml drop lists tell you?
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:21 pm

yeti_c wrote:
greenoaks wrote:i wasn't trying to cause trouble cairns. i have spent the last 2 days trying to find the corresponding mortar, running my finger methodically up and down that map to cover every inch of it, squinting, leaning up close to the screen & then doing all that again on the next map. i just could not work out how i was missing it every single time.

i have noticed that colour on every map i have played regardless of what colour army is beside it, including the neutral question marks. the 2 games i provided links to were to show yeti they looked cyan not green like the mortar or the shells at F or K.

i am currently in or have completed 14, while awaiting players in another 9 because this is currently my favourite map. great map, well done. =D>


If you struggle to see the connections that much - you need BOB in your life!

C.

Not wanting to be nasty or otherwise, but glasses might also help ;) ;) :)
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby barterer2002 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:57 am

I have not read through the 20 or so pages so forgive me if this was addressed earlier.

Having recently become aware of the objectives in this map I thought I'd try for them.

Now, according to the map the Axis Partners, Gazala, Gazala Line and All of Tobruk

Further down the Axis Partners are listed as Bir Tedheim, Rommell, Panzeramee and Airfield Rotunda Segnali.

So in Game 2714537 I held all these objectives at the start of Round 12.

When I didn't win I decided to take a look at Bob and determine why not. According to Bob, in addition to the things listed I also have to hold all 6 90th Panzers, all 6 15th Panzers, all 7 Italian regiments, and all 8 21st Panzers.

Now I can see that I missed the Italians when looking at the Axis partners but the problem as I see it is that this map will almost never win as an objective map. I had thought it an interesting twist to try out but you have to hold 45 of the 65 terts to complete the objective which seems to make the whole thing somewhat pointless as an objective.

I guess my main issue though is that I think the objectives themselves are unclear. I can see that when you stated Rommell in the objectives you were referring to those that required the Rommell bonus yet I read it as Rommell itself and the same for Panzanerree. Is there a possible way to clear up that confusion or is it just not worth the effort?
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:54 pm

barterer2002 wrote:....
I guess my main issue though is that I think the objectives themselves are unclear. I can see that when you stated Rommell in the objectives you were referring to those that required the Rommell bonus yet I read it as Rommell itself and the same for Panzanerree. Is there a possible way to clear up that confusion or is it just not worth the effort?

So far you're the only one who is unclear on this. Perhaps you should read/understand the legend where it states quite clearly
Axis Partners: Bir Temrad, Rommel, Italians, Panzerarmee & Airfield Rotonda Segnali
Now you appreciate that real estate is a at a premium on a map because of the size, so grouping by association is in the legend is quite obvious. This was gone over in some detailed effort in the development.

As far as the objective goes, this was a Real Life battle and that is what was won, so no changes there either.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby barterer2002 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:26 pm

Well of course it may be just me having issues. I tend to be rather stupid at times but I suppose I wonder if nobody has had an issue because nobody has attempted to win by taking the objectives. I ask out of ignorance of course but is it possible to see how often the game is won by having the objectives met.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:12 pm

barterer2002 wrote:Well of course it may be just me having issues. I tend to be rather stupid at times but I suppose I wonder if nobody has had an issue because nobody has attempted to win by taking the objectives. I ask out of ignorance of course but is it possible to see how often the game is won by having the objectives met.

i know what you mean barterer2002. i won all my games by killing off people, but then that is what CC allows for in that game. That's why Das Schloss is truly the very first "objective only game". i know it is possible to list all the completed games, but then i imagine you'd have to troll through them all to see who won by objective.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby barterer2002 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:53 pm

I was hoping there would be an easy way to tell but I don't think anyone is going to want to go through the 635 (and counting) completed games to see
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby Shrinky on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:51 am

Airfield Rotonda Segnali looks like it connects straight away with 21st Panzers. Only when i tried to attack did i find out that it actually goes through Panzerarmee Africa. The route line for this one looks very misleading(shows that it is going from the airfield to 21st).

Can it be changed please?
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:36 pm

Shrinky wrote:Airfield Rotonda Segnali looks like it connects straight away with 21st Panzers. Only when i tried to attack did i find out that it actually goes through Panzerarmee Africa. The route line for this one looks very misleading(shows that it is going from the airfield to 21st).

Can it be changed please?

Shrinky...thanks for comment. I will put it on the to do list if there are any other comments to the same extent.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby edbeard on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:19 pm

considering that the line actually goes through the Panzer Africa tank, I think this one is more of a brain fart than a misleading / unclear attack line.
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Re: WWII: Battle of Gazala [Quenched]

Postby Shrinky on Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:45 am

edbeard wrote:considering that the line actually goes through the Panzer Africa tank, I think this one is more of a brain fart than a misleading / unclear attack line.


nope. if u look closely on the left side, u will see that the line is a continuous one and does not cross panzer africa at all.
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