Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

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Re: Escalating for Beginners-go to page four

Postby khazalid on Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:58 pm

hah cutting!

now hurry up and nu-blog :idea:
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Re: Escalating for Beginners-go to page four

Postby banana_hammocks on Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:51 am

I'll put in my opinion (for what it is worth).

I've played a fair few escalating games (mainly through tournaments) which gives a mix of beginners (not always low ranked) and more advanced players. But in general I feel the games are at a middling standard.

My goals when playing are:
1) don't become a target!
2) let other people break the continents
3) give yourself the best chance of winning
4) who do you target

Now a bit more detail/explanation

1)Don't become a target - in the early rounds this is purely on a unit count. Try to keep as many units as possible. Attack weak spots preferably in northern north America or northern Asia. Stay clear of Australia and south America (even if you have all the territories someone will likely suicide against you to break them).

In later rounds (when cashes are 10+) it is a mixture of units and cards. If you have the least number of troops and someone has 5 cards, while it is your go and you have 2, do not get that 3rd card. The player with 5 cards will have to decide whether to go after you and leave themselves vulnerable or go after someone else who has 3 cards but more armies (sometimes leaving them hanging for you). You are far more of a target with 3+ cards than with 1 or 2.

2) Let other people break the continents - this is where the difference between beginner and middle comes into play. Many beginners see someone has a continent and automatically think "i must break it at all costs". Inevitably weakening both players. This also works the other way round with beginners determined to take a continent at all costs. So generally in a game you will have 2-3 players who will fight over south America and Australia.

3) give yourself the best chance of winning. Now this seems obvious, but it is also the hardest to master. A number of things you can do can help. Firstly when you get to 4 cards think about whether you want to get that 5th card and have to turn in or do you want to wait and be the last to cash in. If you are in a good position sometimes it is better to wait (especially if you have a set with 4 cards anyway).

When fortifying your troops to get them ready to eliminate put them somewhere that can focus on a weak player, or if no-one is very weak put them on somewhere that can attack a number of players from.

Also try to get as few fronts as possible. ie. see if you can get all the kill with only 1 large stack rather than having to attack in two directions, as this makes it less likely that you will succeed. Sometimes it may even be better to attack through a 3rd person than to have 2 fronts.

4) Who do you target? - often the answer can be no-one. If you don't have a good chance, don't do it. Also if it is not worth it don't do it. There is no point usually in using 30-40 troops to get 1-2 cards as you will not be able to cash them in immediately, leaving you vulnerable.

It is obviously best to attack the person with the least amount of troops (and 3-5 cards), but you need to take into account any 3rd party troops you will have to go through to get them, and also how many directions you will have to attack. Take a moment before you start your turn to plan the route you are going to attack.

so you have chosen your target and decided to go for it. Start off by attacking the place where you feel least comfortable about being able to take them out (ie. if you have a 6v3 in an isolated area) this means you will waste the least amount of your troops and his troops if it doesn't work out. Stop if you don't succeed.
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Re: Escalating for Beginners-go to page four

Postby Jackofalltrades on Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:24 pm

I don't have much to add to the thread other than it has been extremely informative. Until recently I have been very hesitant if not totally avoiding esc. games. This has been an extremely informative thread where beginning to learn esc games are concerned, however unless i am wrong, i have not seen mention of the use of bob script to help add territory and opponent strength. for the most part i'm on cc using a work laptop where unable to download apps/ add-ons, ie ff/greasemonkey/bob. At home I've started using it and it has added a bit more perspective and depth that i didn't fully realize i had been missing.

Anywho kudeos on the tread. Just figured bob was worth mentioning because i played without knowing about it rising to mid 1700's before knowing about it. my 2 cents.
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Re:

Postby stringybeany on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:31 am

EmperorOfDaNorth wrote:You'll stop climbing soon after Sargeant though, because then you get to play with the big guys, who don't make the silly mistakes, AND actively try to block weaker players so you can't take them out easily anymore.

THen you have to rework that strategy and time your cards better and you find yourself in a position where you're cashing 40 cards and STILL can't take anyone out so then you find yourself AGAIN deploying strategically even with 40 %$*(#&$# bonus armies! :)

I think the intermediate step is to play games with SOME high ranking players but also some corporals mixed in.


Right. Time for some next steps then
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Re: Escalating for Beginners-go to page four

Postby stringybeany on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:32 am

khazalid wrote: nu-blog :?:
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Escalating for Intermediates

Postby stringybeany on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:34 am

As stated up thread numerous times: beginner's strategies will only move you part way up the ladder. Timing, lane control, and blocking strategies are learned best from experience, IMO; but we'll get you started anyway with the basic concepts and definitions.

Timing
Timing is all about when to go for the kill. There are two main categories to consider. The single shot kill and the series kill. A single shot is where you will eliminate another player without getting another cash. The series shot is where you will get subsequent cashes, hopefully resulting in a Full Board Sweep (which is what dedicated escalating players live for).

The single shot kill is simpler to calculate than the series kill, but takes care in that eliminations always change blocking and lane control dynamics on the map. If you are not careful, you can make a kill shot that leaves you looking strong but actually leaves the game wide open for another player. This is the error that really pisses off a lot of advanced players.

The series shot takes more careful planning, and can be hard to predict as it involves a long series of dice rolls that often end in "hangings" (a failed elimination try that leaves opponent with only a couple armies on the board). Hangings generally do not irritate advanced players, as they are part of the game. If you aren't leaving the occasional hanging, you aren't winning your share of games. The key here is to not go overboard. If you start trying 10% odds shots because "that's my only chance of winning", then you are still a beginner. Go back.

Lane Control
Lane control is the practice of taking strong positions that keep your attacking options plentiful and in many directions.

Blocking
Blocking is the practice of taking strong positions that prevent other players from either eliminating a specific opponent or that prevent other players from accessing regions of the map.

Examples from the {edit: classic :D} map.

Lane control territories:
Ontario
Afghanistan
Southern Europe
East Africa
[any territory on any given day that is open to attacking multiple directions]

Blocking territories:
Siam
Indonesia
[any territory on any given day that prevents another player's pending kill-shot]

Blocking and lane control:
North Africa
Kamchatka/Alaska
Iceland/Greenland
Central America/Venezuela

Next up: How the above parameters vary in importance with game settings
Last edited by stringybeany on Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby BeakerWMA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:49 pm

Excellent thread...don;t know whether to applaud you for sharing such geat knowledge for the Community or be POed for the same reason :P
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby stringybeany on Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:42 am

This chart should generate some lively discussion, I hope.

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Explanation:
The scale is arbitrary, and the data points are my opinion.

As you can see from the chart, two player games don't require advanced strategies.

Three player games aren't much better.

After that, timing is everything.

Lane control is always important, but there are limitations to what can be accomplished when there are 8 players on the board.

Blocking lives right up there with timing, and becomes more critical with more players
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby tracedout on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:43 pm

is that chart empirical

can i see your data


by the way, what are the odds of getting two sets from 7 cards or 8 cards, or the rare 3 sets from 9 cards?
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby poo-maker on Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:57 am

stringybeany wrote:
Fortifications: DO NOT GATHER YOUR TROOPS INTO PILES.
*exception: you may move troops out of countries that you have completely surrounded*


I had a quick skim through the first post. I fucking hate it when people dont fort into piles, leaving 2's and 3's everywhere. [-X :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Bruceswar on Mon May 05, 2008 10:31 am

poo-maker wrote:
stringybeany wrote:
Fortifications: DO NOT GATHER YOUR TROOPS INTO PILES.
*exception: you may move troops out of countries that you have completely surrounded*


I had a quick skim through the first post. I fucking hate it when people dont fort into piles, leaving 2's and 3's everywhere. [-X :evil: :evil: :evil:



I have to agree here with poo. That bothers almost as much as someone trying to go for a bonus. Especially in 8 man games.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby RashidJelzin on Tue May 13, 2008 4:38 am

stringybeany wrote:S
Round One:

A: Pick one country in a large continent that is close to other countries you own and deploy there. Roll dice once against opponent of your choice, but try and attack towards your other countries.
Fortifications: DO NOT GATHER YOUR TROOPS INTO PILES.
*exception: you may move troops out of countries that you have completely surrounded*

Step one: check the board strength. Everyone should still have about the same number of armies on the board.

B: If the board is "unbalanced",meaning either one player has taken big losses or big advances then you want to attack whoever has the most "armies due" for the next turn. This means breaking weakly held continents if necessary. Look for the easiest victories that will take the most "armies due" from the board leader. If you can't reduce the leader's strength without becoming weak in the process, then look for easy victories as outlined above.

A. Attack to keep the board in balance. Always attack the leader first, if possible.

Round five:

Attack with same priorities, but now you will fortify with a new goal: elimination.

In round five you examine all your opponents looking for elimination targets. A viable target will be accessible to your troops and will have at least three cards, preferably more.

Fortify against this opponent(s). Make large piles now, if you can.
If there are no viable elimination targets, make no big moves.

Round six through Eight:

Cash your set. Eliminate your target or if no target, take the easiest card you can get and wait for next round. From here forward cash immediately if you have a target, wait until forced to cash if you don't.

Wtf-- attack a 3 first round, move towards your other territories, don't gather into piles, kill-shot with first cash, keep the board "balanced"? Where do you get that stuff from?! I thought you wanted to improve beginner's play?...
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby RashidJelzin on Tue May 13, 2008 4:52 am

Referring to that chart of yours; how is "Lane Control" in 8 player games not as important as Blocking and "Timing"? Timing and Lane Control come with each other-- if you don't have the position to take a kill, then it's no use to you when cards and armies of the other player are to your advantage. Hence, Lane Control should be at least as important and Timing. I don't have the time now, but there are some other points I don't like.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby killmanic on Tue May 13, 2008 6:51 am

RashidJelzin wrote:Wtf-- attack a 3 first round, move towards your other territories, don't gather into piles, kill-shot with first cash, keep the board "balanced"? Where do you get that stuff from?! I thought you wanted to improve beginner's play?...


HAHAHA Be nice though hes just giving info to the best of his ability, theres a reason you are the rank you are and hes the rank he is.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Thezzaruz on Tue May 13, 2008 8:02 am

Bruceswar wrote:
poo-maker wrote:I had a quick skim through the first post. I fucking hate it when people dont fort into piles, leaving 2's and 3's everywhere. [-X :evil: :evil: :evil:


I have to agree here with poo. That bothers almost as much as someone trying to go for a bonus. Especially in 8 man games.


I have always found it strange that not allowing your opponents access to easy cards is somehow considered bad strategy??? (ofc you shouldn't weaken yourself just to keep armies even over your territories)
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby joecoolfrog on Tue May 13, 2008 8:34 am

Thezzaruz wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
poo-maker wrote:I had a quick skim through the first post. I fucking hate it when people dont fort into piles, leaving 2's and 3's everywhere. [-X :evil: :evil: :evil:


I have to agree here with poo. That bothers almost as much as someone trying to go for a bonus. Especially in 8 man games.


I have always found it strange that not allowing your opponents access to easy cards is somehow considered bad strategy??? (ofc you shouldn't weaken yourself just to keep armies even over your territories)


If you dont leave an easy card then the chances are you wont get one back so you lose armies both ways...not good.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Thezzaruz on Tue May 13, 2008 9:18 am

joecoolfrog wrote:If you dont leave an easy card then the chances are you wont get one back so you lose armies both ways...not good.


Sure, that's the most basic form of alliances/collusion in a game. But demanding that everyone always does it is a bit much IMO.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Timminz on Tue May 13, 2008 9:20 am

Thezzaruz wrote:
joecoolfrog wrote:If you dont leave an easy card then the chances are you wont get one back so you lose armies both ways...not good.


Sure, that's the most basic form of alliances/collusion in a game. But demanding that everyone always does it is a bit much IMO.


You'll win more games if you share cards than if you don't.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Scott-Land on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 pm

poo-maker wrote:
stringybeany wrote:
Fortifications: DO NOT GATHER YOUR TROOPS INTO PILES.
*exception: you may move troops out of countries that you have completely surrounded*


I had a quick skim through the first post. I fucking hate it when people dont fort into piles, leaving 2's and 3's everywhere. [-X :evil: :evil: :evil:


you think it's bad in speed freestyle-- it's worse in casual games. even in some of my private games, just makes me want to auto ALL of them :lol:
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby herndawg on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:41 pm

Just sign up after me. I will give the game to you after the dice kick my butt and I leave one shy of a fifty cash. I just may advance wrong too and blow the whole thing. Fun games though. Just sign up after me, you will win alot. :mrgreen: course I handed two games to people this week and they didn't even notice, I will have the win in one and who knows in the other. :lol:
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby Sun Tzup on Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:40 pm

Thank you all.
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby tracedout on Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:19 am

if you stare at the map long enough you can see the future
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby joecoolfrog on Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:08 am

Thezzaruz wrote:
joecoolfrog wrote:If you dont leave an easy card then the chances are you wont get one back so you lose armies both ways...not good.


Sure, that's the most basic form of alliances/collusion in a game. But demanding that everyone always does it is a bit much IMO.


Im demanding nothing, simply advising the best tactic, pissing your opponents off in the early stages of a game is not a good idea !
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby drake_259 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:44 pm

thanks this has helped me out big time
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Re: Esc. for Beginners pg4---Esc. Intermediate pg8

Postby tracedout on Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:47 pm

leaving the easy card is just basic cooperative game theory

sometimes it helps you more to help someone else. sometimes it doesn't.
Major tracedout
 
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