Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Information on tactics, scenarios, and all that you'll need to be successful in-game!

Moderator: Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Noslen on Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:37 am

Okay so here's the real question:

When I am down facing overwhelming odds I like to take my biggest stack and just blow through the opponent in the hope that I might actually get lucky. This can sometimes take away valuable bonuses and punch holes in the opponent's defence that others might be able to use.

So is this a good idea or bad idea?
Cook Noslen
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:28 am
Location: England
Medals: 3
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:40 am

Suiciding? Will throw you on ignore - you're already weak, if you're out of the game, don't friggin' trash it for others. That's just stupid.

I for one would put you on foe the second you did that to anyone in a game. I know you're asking for help so I shouldn't be so harsh, but you might want to realize it most likely contributes to the reason you're a cook.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby BlacKnighT on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:26 am

Well if you are in the position where you're likely to be taken out by stronger players, that is your last hope to get lucky and stay in the game. I think it's a legitimate move but it can be frustrating for players that feel that they had already won and that's just a cheap tactic. As, for instance, Fabled here. It's how people play the game, and sometimes it benefits them or else people wouldn't do it. In the end it is just everyone trying to win however they can and people either like it or not.
User avatar
Sergeant BlacKnighT
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:54 pm
Location: NJ, US
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Timminz on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:30 am

In a situation where you are exceptionally weak, and one other player is exceptionally strong, you should attack them, but not down until you've got nothing left. If the other people in the game know what they're doing, they'll hit the strong player too, and possibly bring the field back to level. It won't work every time, but it's a hell of a lot better than the "kamikaze" attack.
jay_a2j wrote:lets not be so quick to judge Hitler
User avatar
Major Timminz
 
Posts: 5567
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: At the store
Medals: 56
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby barterer2002 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:37 am

There is a difference, at least in my mind, between attacking the stronger player simply to break bonuses with no hope that you'll survive another round or two and taking a shot at the game. In a situation where I've got the same number of armies that I'm going to need to take out to eliminate a player I'll make the play realizing that its a long shot. There are times it works and times when it doesn't but I'll always take the chance on the win in that situation, in the situation you're talking about, however, it sounds like you can't take out one of the players and are just hitting hard at the leader. In general I'd break a bonus if I could but I'm not going to go out and weaken him enough to give another player the game.
Image
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant barterer2002
 
Posts: 5971
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:51 am
Medals: 104
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (19) General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (7) Tournament Contribution (33) General Contribution (2)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Noslen on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:37 am

FabledIntegral wrote:I for one would put you on foe the second you did that to anyone in a game. I know you're asking for help so I shouldn't be so harsh, but you might want to realize it most likely contributes to the reason you're a cook.


Or of course it could just be that people are better than me.


But serious as a last resort tactic, let's say that on the Montreal map...you hold only the small little island and you face someone who holds the rest of the map, or at least a significant portion and you have nowhere else to go. Taking what you have and just attacking in an attempt to save yourself? I've only ever done this twice on CC but did wonder what others think about it. I must say I never thought of it as a 'cheap' tactic...just a last resort.
Cook Noslen
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:28 am
Location: England
Medals: 3
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby danodukebb on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:11 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:Suiciding? Will throw you on ignore - you're already weak, if you're out of the game, don't friggin' trash it for others. That's just stupid.

I for one would put you on foe the second you did that to anyone in a game. I know you're asking for help so I shouldn't be so harsh, but you might want to realize it most likely contributes to the reason you're a cook.


he'll put ANYONE on foe for anything, he put me on foe because I beat him, and he couldn't take it....
Check out my band: Blink of an Eye and if you have a myspace still please add us!!! http://www.myspace.com/blinkofaneyemusic
User avatar
Corporal danodukebb
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:57 pm
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:25 pm

danodukebb wrote:
FabledIntegral wrote:Suiciding? Will throw you on ignore - you're already weak, if you're out of the game, don't friggin' trash it for others. That's just stupid.

I for one would put you on foe the second you did that to anyone in a game. I know you're asking for help so I shouldn't be so harsh, but you might want to realize it most likely contributes to the reason you're a cook.


he'll put ANYONE on foe for anything, he put me on foe because I beat him, and he couldn't take it....


You <NS EDIT> - way not to only take this offtopic but spew your lies as well. Show me the fucking game you beat me in you <NS EDIT>. If I recall, I put you on ignore for your <NS EDIT> in the forums, but even then, I find myself clicking the "show post" to see if you've gotten even slightly more intelligent. Apparently not.

Most recent game I've played with you before I put you on foe?

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=2837021

And you haven't won a single goddamn game we've been in together... <NS EDIT>.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby MeDeFe on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:40 pm

Noslen wrote:
FabledIntegral wrote:I for one would put you on foe the second you did that to anyone in a game. I know you're asking for help so I shouldn't be so harsh, but you might want to realize it most likely contributes to the reason you're a cook.

Or of course it could just be that people are better than me.


But serious as a last resort tactic, let's say that on the Montreal map...you hold only the small little island and you face someone who holds the rest of the map, or at least a significant portion and you have nowhere else to go. Taking what you have and just attacking in an attempt to save yourself? I've only ever done this twice on CC but did wonder what others think about it. I must say I never thought of it as a 'cheap' tactic...just a last resort.

Exactly what situation are you talking about here? If there's you and only one other player left you attack, no question, if there's more than one player besides yourself left you make damn sure you stay in the game. There's a world of a difference between two players left and three players left. If you're the weakest player in a situation with three or more players left and start suiciding you would probably end up on my foe list as well.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Noslen on Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:47 pm

If there's just one other person left....I mean it may be possible there's still some neutrals around hence 'all or most of the map'
Cook Noslen
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:28 am
Location: England
Medals: 3
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby XML7p on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:07 pm

This does say Kamikaze....is it really a good final move? for a reason, and yes it is a good final move in my opinion but it is not likely to win the game.
Cadet XML7p
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:08 pm

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:21 pm

XML7p wrote:This does say Kamikaze....is it really a good final move? for a reason, and yes it is a good final move in my opinion but it is not likely to win the game.


Then no, it's not a good move... ffs how can you say it's a good final move if it's not likely to win the game. Play your odds, it's that simple.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby XML7p on Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:41 am

I meant by, its a good last resort that has 35% chance of getting you back on your feet.
So its good late game when your dieing because it is a last resort.
Cadet XML7p
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:08 pm

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:31 pm

XML7p wrote:I meant by, its a good last resort that has 35% chance of getting you back on your feet.
So its good late game when your dieing because it is a last resort.


Incorrect. First of all, in his situation where someone else has most of the map, it is not a good "last resort" strategy. Secondly, if he was getting to that situation, you should have acted sooner. If you didn't act sooner, it's your own fault for sucking, and should not suicide at the end. Most likely other players will not take the opportunity to kill the stronger player but capitalize on your weakness.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby gdeangel on Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:44 pm

In mulitplayer, it's pretty much always got to have a balance. If you are the weakest player, and the other players are ganging on you then yes, it is probably best to suicide on someone, but of course you've got to announce it to give them an incentive to stop ganging on you.

If it's 1v1, and your really looking at a long shot, the odds on attack vs. defense are just slightly more favorable for attack BUT I have seen very seriously crap waves of attack dice, so you want to sort-of attack just enough to bait the other player to attack you, but hope the other guy catches the string of twelve consecutive 0-2 rolls thats out there in the dice file somewhere.
User avatar
Sergeant gdeangel
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:48 pm
Location: In the Basement
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby t-o-m on Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:45 pm

A good played suicided me just yesterday.

Mbohn, i was quite shocked.
Then he accused me of suiciding him for HIM autoing 127 of my guys with his 74.
Threw the game away to the other player, obviously.
Colonel t-o-m
 
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:22 pm
Location: Redistributing wealth
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Schwournes on Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:53 pm

I would've thought that Kamikaze (well not in the sense I mean - because it is the opposite of suiciding) wouldn't be an attempt to trash the game, but more as a vain attempt to stay in the game until you get a set of cards or something...But not completely recklessly as in 1 1 1 1 1 because then you would just get knocked out straight away
Cadet Schwournes
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:15 pm
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:15 pm

Schwournes wrote:I would've thought that Kamikaze (well not in the sense I mean - because it is the opposite of suiciding) wouldn't be an attempt to trash the game, but more as a vain attempt to stay in the game until you get a set of cards or something...But not completely recklessly as in 1 1 1 1 1 because then you would just get knocked out straight away


Kamikaze to me sounds like "in a desperate attempt, take someone else out with you to do as much dmg to them as possible. STILL a suicide, obviously, by definition."

If you want to stay in the game until you got a set of cards, why in the world would you attack at ALL except for killing a single army for a card? Why would you waste any more armies? What does that possibly accomplish? It can't help you at all... unless you want to get really technical and try to pull some attackers advantage BS out. But in the end - it just makes you a bigger target for the OTHER players to kill you... so the attackers advantage point goes to hell...
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Meor on Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:52 am

I haven't been on CC for long at all, but I have played a lot of RISK, and suicide is always a terrible move, not only because it destroys the strategy of the game, but because you eliminate any chance of winning. That said however, if you are being cornered taking a big unit stack and breaking through an opponents defenses in order to establish a stronger position can be a decent move, provided you don't use up all your units doing it. It is still a huge risk though.
Corporal Meor
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:58 am

Meor wrote:I haven't been on CC for long at all, but I have played a lot of RISK, and suicide is always a terrible move, not only because it destroys the strategy of the game, but because you eliminate any chance of winning. That said however, if you are being cornered taking a big unit stack and breaking through an opponents defenses in order to establish a stronger position can be a decent move, provided you don't use up all your units doing it. It is still a huge risk though.


Very, VERY VERY rarily is this true, as classic risk is played escalating style.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Hotdoggie on Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:10 am

Kamikazi = bad

that sums it up...
PERSONAL BEST...
Rank: Colonel
Score: 2802
Place: 120
Date: 16 / 2 / 2009
Lieutenant Hotdoggie
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Doodle Earth
Medals: 32
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby Meor on Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:31 am

FabledIntegral wrote:
Meor wrote:I haven't been on CC for long at all, but I have played a lot of RISK, and suicide is always a terrible move, not only because it destroys the strategy of the game, but because you eliminate any chance of winning. That said however, if you are being cornered taking a big unit stack and breaking through an opponents defenses in order to establish a stronger position can be a decent move, provided you don't use up all your units doing it. It is still a huge risk though.


Very, VERY VERY rarily is this true, as classic risk is played escalating style.


I have seen it work though, and the player doing has come back to win, albeit you have to do it fairly early on. Definitely a bad move in 1v1. And it probably flops more often than it works...but as a last ditch strategy, I wouldn't call it a cheap move or bad strategy.
Corporal Meor
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby max is gr8 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:23 pm

I suicided once against a player I had a chance of beating. After I got him down to one territ with one unit and failed (in escalating game) I suicided because I was so annoyed, because the next players turn he already had a set then would kill the player and get another set etc.
‹max is gr8› so you're a tee-total healthy-eating sex-addict?
‹New_rules› Everyone has some bad habits
(4th Jan 2010)
User avatar
Corporal max is gr8
 
Posts: 3720
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:44 am
Location: In a big ball of light sent from the future
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby OliverFA on Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:46 pm

Well... if someone almost killed you and ruined the game for you, I think is completely legitimate to turn back the favor and ruin the game for him.
User avatar
Corporal OliverFA
 
Posts: 2361
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Somewhere in Spain
Medals: 32
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (3) Training Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (5)

Re: Kamikaze....is it really a good final move?

Postby FabledIntegral on Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:46 pm

OliverFA wrote:Well... if someone almost killed you and ruined the game for you, I think is completely legitimate to turn back the favor and ruin the game for him.


That... is a completely different matter - I do that all the time.
Major FabledIntegral
 
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: Highest Rank: 7 Highest Score: 3810
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1)

Next

Return to Strategy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kell-Tainer

Login