[Official] Brazil REVAMP [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby Mjinga on Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:38 pm

jiminski wrote:If more people are to be included in the map revamp process (and in the foundry in general), as apparently was the desire, their views should not be completely dismissed... heheh it is not good for morale ;)

My morale is fine. :) The views of people who liked the tilt were not dismissed. Marv went to the trouble of explaining why he didn't like it. Dismissal would be just "nope, no tilt possible" without any kind of reason why. Just 'cause you didn't come 'round to his point of view doesn't mean you were dismissed. ;)

RJ, any way that the Non-Crossing Borders might be renamed Impassable Borders or sommat? Non-Crossing is very awkward.
Reputation cleared. :) Never let it be said that Team CC don't investigate fairly.
Although they take bloody forever to do it...
Lieutenant Mjinga
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (1)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby jiminski on Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:44 pm

Mjinga wrote:
jiminski wrote:If more people are to be included in the map revamp process (and in the foundry in general), as apparently was the desire, their views should not be completely dismissed... heheh it is not good for morale ;)

My morale is fine. :) The views of people who liked the tilt were not dismissed. Marv went to the trouble of explaining why he didn't like it. Dismissal would be just "nope, no tilt possible" without any kind of reason why. Just 'cause you didn't come 'round to his point of view doesn't mean you were dismissed. ;)



heheh it does MJ, it was just a 'nope' in discussions false clothing, made by the only opinion that mattered.. no matter how long it took to do it, it was dismissal. May be ok for your morale but it all depends on where we start off.
The vote said one thing and now we move in another direction (literally) it's not exclusively my morale I meant either, it is that of all those whose vote was discarded, people like me, who may wish to contribute something, however small, to our maps!
(i will leave out RJ as I am sure he does not wish to be involved but the artists discretion should be ultimately respected.)

The foundry so obviously wishes to be more inclusive and bring more people in but when it does it does not heed its majority oppinion.
"Hey no one will notice anyway.. who cares what they vote, the majority just click buttons!" well if that is the case and views are so easily dismissed in the minutiae, why bloody ask!? (remember that Oaks may well have won if the more esoteric Cartography-set alone, had voted)

Specifically to me again; It may be that i'd have been very happy with RJ's map, under Marvs veto, had i never seen the tilt .. but i did.. and i liked it, i preferred it!

What does the process want: Does it want to draw upon the community opinion or does it not?

Now i agree that may not be Marvs fault but it is the systems!

Anyway i give up, no more Revamps for me, as watching them is frustrating... i'll go back to pissing and moaning once they are finished... i think it is ultimately more satisfying ;)
.. if you see me in here again, swear at me and throw rocks.. it's for my own good!
Image
User avatar
Colonel jiminski
 
Posts: 5416
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:30 pm
Location: London
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby edbeard on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:06 pm

so I noticed the iron curtain update and I'm wondering what's going on with this
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:18 pm

edbeard wrote:so I noticed the iron curtain update and I'm wondering what's going on with this


Nothing.

I'm going to get the xml done for Charleston. then move to iron curtain. Then come back to this eventually.
Image
User avatar
Private RjBeals
 
Posts: 2500
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:17 pm
Location: South Carolina, USA
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
General Achievement (7) Map Contribution (6) General Contribution (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Update No Tilt) [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:15 pm

Before I even touch this map again, I need some agreement on the borders. For a refresher... I used this image for my map outline and borders.

Image

If you lay my most recent map on top of Marv's original, it will not match. His is a flattened map. It's close, but not exact. In addition, I adjusted borders as I saw fit in the blue northeast region, in order to squeeze some of the territory names into the borders, instead of having them outside the map. This was also done in the middle of the yellow central axis region as well. I don't think 99% of people would even notice. I alter all the borders on my maps, very little of course, in order keep aesthetic appearances (names and borders living in harmony). This is ultimately a board game, and not a geography book.

Marv would like the borders to match. I'm fine with that - but I've already redrawn the borders once in order to remove the tilt. I do not want to redo again unless it's totally agreed upon.

So Marv and whomever else wishes to chime in, please agree or disagree to redraw borders to match Marvs. If I do retrace borders, they will match Marv's exactly, except for the jagged pixilation.

My Map
Click image to enlarge.
image


Marv's Map
Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Private RjBeals
 
Posts: 2500
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:17 pm
Location: South Carolina, USA
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
General Achievement (7) Map Contribution (6) General Contribution (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby edbeard on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:17 pm

if your borders match google earth's then I don't see why there's a problem
User avatar
Major edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (3)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby ZeakCytho on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:21 pm

As I mentioned before, it would be optimal for the revamp to have flat borders because it is a flat map. If you were including neighboring regions and showing the rest of SA, a spherical projection would be fitting.

However, I think the benefit gained from redrawing the borders is small compared to the amount of time that would have to go into it. So my vote goes to leaving the borders as is.
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby amazzony on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:28 pm

I've been following the revamp process quietly since beginning I think because Brazil is one of my favourite maps on this site and I can't wait for the revamp that it deserves to finish.

Also, I might not understand completely what all the fuss is about but for me the current Rj's map looks great and I see no reason to give him extra work because the change that we would see is minor IMO (or perhaps I'm missing something important). The sentence came out weird but point was that I would say no to re-drawing of the borders.
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby pamoa on Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:19 am

should it be a spherical projection, cylindrical or who knows what else, bla bla bla.
Marv you should stop arguing about it and let it go, it's not your map anymore.
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces et donjonnée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class pamoa
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Confederatio Helvetica
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (8)
Map Contribution (3)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby foregone on Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:30 am

The borders are fine as is. I can't even tell the difference when I try to look.
Lieutenant foregone
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 1:00 am
Medals: 4
Standard Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby reggie_mac on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:47 am

The world is not flat.
Leave them as you have them RJ.
Soviet Invaders: Space Invaders, it's not just a game
New Zealand Map - Foundry
"You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"
User avatar
Captain reggie_mac
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Queenstown, NZ
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby amazzony on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:11 am

pamoa wrote:should it be a spherical projection, cylindrical or who knows what else, bla bla bla.
Marv you should stop arguing about it and let it go, it's not your map anymore.


Actually it is still his map and he has all the right to argue and defend his views! But at the same time he should take under consideration that he did allow a revamp and he should give up on some demands because changing the map is part of this process (actually more like the point of this process).
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby RjBeals on Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:13 am

amazzony wrote:
pamoa wrote:should it be a spherical projection, cylindrical or who knows what else, bla bla bla.
Marv you should stop arguing about it and let it go, it's not your map anymore.


Actually it is still his map and he has all the right to argue and defend his views! But at the same time he should take under consideration that he did allow a revamp and he should give up on some demands because changing the map is part of this process (actually more like the point of this process).


Agree with amazzony. If someone ever wanted to revamp one of my maps, and I was still an active member of the site, I would like to provide reasonable direction on what / what not should be changed, and have a stronger influence over the map than the general forum public. I also think that if another revamp (or revamp contest) happens, that explicit rules should be stated before any revamping is done. For instance:

* Is the revamp intended to keep the overall appearance of the original, just graphically touching up bad areas?
* Is the revamp artist allowed to have total graphical freedom, as long as gameplay & bonus amounts don't change?
* Is the map skeleton (size / borders) suppose to remain intact, including North position?
* Are the color's of the territories allowed to be changed? Or keep the overall colors, but changing shades is allowed?
* Can we change the style of the legend from text to a mini-map?

And the list could go on.


jiminski wrote: ...this is not what was voted on.... but this exercise in artistic ego ignores entirely what those who voted desire... i am completely disillusioned with the revamp process, which appears to be counter to normal foundry process. i will not be participating in another.


This is exactly why the rules should have been more clearly defined before the contest was opened up to the entire site via the announcments banner.

Link to Brazil Competition Here

Here are the rules we were bound to, and this is all that was posted:

marvaddin wrote:
Hmmm, conditions for the revamp, I think I have said this a ton of times already, lol...

  1. At least 1 Brazilian symbol, like flag or coat of arms.
  2. No changes to the playability without my personal permission.
  3. The impassable are NOT supposed to be any natural obstacles, like rivers or mountains. They are just political borders of Brazilian states, so they can't be replaced by anything natural.
  4. I keep the right to veto anything on the artistic side, like a colour, colour scheme, texture, font, etc. I don't intend to use my veto unless something sounds offensive, or wrong according to Brazilian feelings. Some things I will veto right now include placing signatures in Brazilian flag (someone tried it already, lol), and putting the title in any colour that is not in the flag.
  5. It must be done in Paint (just kidding...) ;)
Image
User avatar
Private RjBeals
 
Posts: 2500
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:17 pm
Location: South Carolina, USA
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
General Achievement (7) Map Contribution (6) General Contribution (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby reggie_mac on Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:24 pm

Revamp - To renovate, redo, or revise.
Redraw - To draw again.

Now I'm pretty sure this a revamp, i can understand marvaddin having a veto over most of the process, but this is about making the map better, not just re-drawing the graphics, other wise it would be called Brazil REDRAW.
Soviet Invaders: Space Invaders, it's not just a game
New Zealand Map - Foundry
"You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"
User avatar
Captain reggie_mac
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Queenstown, NZ
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: [Official] Brazil REVAMP (Borders Again? pg-6) [I, GP]

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:02 pm

reggie_mac wrote:Revamp - To renovate, redo, or revise.
Redraw - To draw again.

Now I'm pretty sure this a revamp, i can understand marvaddin having a veto over most of the process, but this is about making the map better, not just re-drawing the graphics, other wise it would be called Brazil REDRAW.


You're parsing the words too closely.
User avatar
Captain ZeakCytho
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Map Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login