Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:03 pm

mibi wrote:
Incandenza wrote:I still feel like guard 501 should be a 1 or 2...


Any reason? I like the idea of gen pop being kind of isolated, a pressure cooker. It is hard to get external forces in there, so if you don't maintain your reputation in the gen pop, then you are a bit fucked. If it were 2 or 1, then people would neglect the gen pop until it was time to rush in from the yard.


Well, given the importance of gen pop, it just seems cheeky that someone trying to break the big smoke bonus would have to go through an extra neutral 5 to get back into gen pop. Basically it only hurts the guy trying to get in, because once he goes through and kills the guard, then whoever was already in gen pop can just roll that advance back up. Besides, even if the guard were a 1, I doubt that people would neglect gen pop.

I just want to make it a wee bit harder to hold gen pop given that it's the only cell block that can be locked down early in the game, thus giving a huge advantage to whoever comes away with it.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:58 am

Incandenza wrote:
mibi wrote:
Incandenza wrote:I still feel like guard 501 should be a 1 or 2...


Any reason? I like the idea of gen pop being kind of isolated, a pressure cooker. It is hard to get external forces in there, so if you don't maintain your reputation in the gen pop, then you are a bit fucked. If it were 2 or 1, then people would neglect the gen pop until it was time to rush in from the yard.


Well, given the importance of gen pop, it just seems cheeky that someone trying to break the big smoke bonus would have to go through an extra neutral 5 to get back into gen pop. Basically it only hurts the guy trying to get in, because once he goes through and kills the guard, then whoever was already in gen pop can just roll that advance back up. Besides, even if the guard were a 1, I doubt that people would neglect gen pop.

I just want to make it a wee bit harder to hold gen pop given that it's the only cell block that can be locked down early in the game, thus giving a huge advantage to whoever comes away with it.


ok well i can go for a 3 for guard 501. ofcourse, i have no idea how to make changes to the maps and such. I suggested changes a few moons ago, but you know how it is..
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:01 am

I was waiting for the discussion to come to a consensus - and for some of the games I have on the map to finish!!!

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby psilotum on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:36 pm

First, I'd like to say, I'm starting to really like this map. It took a while to become familiar, but it has some interesting twists.

I've been playing 1 on 1 games on this map, and the starting bonuses vary wildly. Sometimes the game is over based on the drop. One idea I had would be to start all the gang leaders as neutral. That way no player would ever start with a large bonus.

I didn't see this specifically discussed, but I didn't search too hard.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:43 pm

psilotum wrote:First, I'd like to say, I'm starting to really like this map. It took a while to become familiar, but it has some interesting twists.

I've been playing 1 on 1 games on this map, and the starting bonuses vary wildly. Sometimes the game is over based on the drop. One idea I had would be to start all the gang leaders as neutral. That way no player would ever start with a large bonus.

I didn't see this specifically discussed, but I didn't search too hard.


thats a good idea.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:20 am

mibi wrote:
psilotum wrote:First, I'd like to say, I'm starting to really like this map. It took a while to become familiar, but it has some interesting twists.

I've been playing 1 on 1 games on this map, and the starting bonuses vary wildly. Sometimes the game is over based on the drop. One idea I had would be to start all the gang leaders as neutral. That way no player would ever start with a large bonus.

I didn't see this specifically discussed, but I didn't search too hard.


thats a good idea.


You talked me out of neutral bosses at the bottom of pg 55. :D
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby waseemalim on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:30 am

neutral bosses may be a good idea -- but then again, if you have the inmate in the same cell, ie diablo for el burro, it comes down to the same randomness. In many ways its prolly worse, because then no one knows who has which boss in a fog game (which I find to be the ideal setting for this map). If you shared the inmate, someone would atleast know.

Mibi, I dont think 8 is too high a bonus -- you spend a lot of armies on trying to get the gas chamber and warden (and it takes a LONG time) -- even if you are coming from the outside, you prolly have to kill 9-15 player armies. By then most people are getting huge bonuses or have downsized you inside the prison. Also once someone takes out the warden you are literally screwed. I feel strongly that this gamble deserves a better return and I insist on +8 -- especially since you are opening up another door there.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:18 am

the only times that my opponents have gone for the gas chamber, I have stranded them with -5 very easily.... i agree that the upside could do with being higher.

Neutral bosses I don't like.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:52 am

waseemalim wrote:neutral bosses may be a good idea -- but then again, if you have the inmate in the same cell, ie diablo for el burro, it comes down to the same randomness. In many ways its prolly worse, because then no one knows who has which boss in a fog game (which I find to be the ideal setting for this map). If you shared the inmate, someone would atleast know.

Mibi, I dont think 8 is too high a bonus -- you spend a lot of armies on trying to get the gas chamber and warden (and it takes a LONG time) -- even if you are coming from the outside, you prolly have to kill 9-15 player armies. By then most people are getting huge bonuses or have downsized you inside the prison. Also once someone takes out the warden you are literally screwed. I feel strongly that this gamble deserves a better return and I insist on +8 -- especially since you are opening up another door there.


righty well with neutral bosses it would still come down to who is their cell mate, but at least people wouldn't start with the boss +3 or something. i think someone was complaining about that. I'd be willing to go +7 on the gas chamber. I just dont want a situation where if someone has the warden and gas chamber, after one turn they can lock it up with huge bonues, then its all over. the difference between +8 and +7 is marginal but may be a factor in that.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:13 pm

Here's sort of a weird thought: what if BOTH the bosses and their respective cellmates started neutral? Then you knock down the neutral value of surrounding guards (maybe even all four in the area) to 2 or 1, set the boss neutral value at 5 and the cellmate at 2, and then it's everyone into the pool. That way you have six potential spots close enough to the boss to make a play for him and no one starts with a big gang bonus.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:19 pm

Incandenza wrote:Here's sort of a weird thought: what if BOTH the bosses and their respective cellmates started neutral? Then you knock down the neutral value of surrounding guards (maybe even all four in the area) to 2 or 1, set the boss neutral value at 5 and the cellmate at 2, and then it's everyone into the pool. That way you have six potential spots close enough to the boss to make a play for him and no one starts with a big gang bonus.


This sounds like a good plan to me...

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:28 pm

yeti_c wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Here's sort of a weird thought: what if BOTH the bosses and their respective cellmates started neutral? Then you knock down the neutral value of surrounding guards (maybe even all four in the area) to 2 or 1, set the boss neutral value at 5 and the cellmate at 2, and then it's everyone into the pool. That way you have six potential spots close enough to the boss to make a play for him and no one starts with a big gang bonus.


This sounds like a good plan to me...

C.


I don't like it much, personally - for many types of settings it will just mean that they are irrelevant (as they often are at the moment in trips and quads).

And what about Big Smoke? - the most important one of all?

I also dislike neutral 1s on principle due to the ease with which the first person to play can increase their territory count.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Greycloak on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:35 pm

I'm sure this has been seen before (and don't care to read through 50-some pages to find the posting) but there is a typo in the title:

Unite your Gang to Sur*V*ive (not surive)
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby badlouie on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:09 am

I absolutely love this map, but after 20+ games on it I have yet to see anyone go into "The Hole".

I haven't encountered a situation where it was worth it for me to secure that area.

So, I have a question- is the Hole ignored in most games, or have I simply been involved in a cluster of games where it simply hasn't come into play?
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby 3mp3r0r on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:38 am

badlouie wrote:I absolutely love this map, but after 20+ games on it I have yet to see anyone go into "The Hole".

I haven't encountered a situation where it was worth it for me to secure that area.

So, I have a question- is the Hole ignored in most games, or have I simply been involved in a cluster of games where it simply hasn't come into play?


came up a while ago and as fgar as i heard/read they were going to add a door between 602 and 002 (guard infront of hole and guard infront of gas chamber) as that would mean gen pop could have a closer route to the warden by taking the hole
dont know why it hasnt been implemented :|
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