XML Starting Positions

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XML Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:30 pm

There has been a fair bit of discussion (mostly in my map thread) about the inner workings of the Starting Position XML tags, which has for the most part left me a little bit bewildered...

In my head I have an idea for a map that makes use of starting positions and an objective.
I wanted to have 8 start positions, but have them so that only 2 of them would be handed out in a 2-player game, and so on.
Additionally, I wanted to see if a particular start position could be used in every game (assigned to a player at random), with as many of the other seven given to the other players as necessary?

I have a feeling this isn't currently possible...
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby oaktown on Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:11 pm

MrBenn wrote:There has been a fair bit of discussion (mostly in my map thread) about the inner workings of the Starting Position XML tags, which has for the most part left me a little bit bewildered...

I'm still sorting out the tag myself, but here's what I guess... yeti can set me straight if I'm off...

MrBenn wrote:I wanted to have 8 start positions, but have them so that only 2 of them would be handed out in a 2-player game, and so on.

I think that this isn't possible... with 8 start positions each player in 1v1 will receive four. You could code it to have only two start positions, in which case the start positions will be ignored in 3+ player games.

MrBenn wrote:Additionally, I wanted to see if a particular start position could be used in every game (assigned to a player at random), with as many of the other seven given to the other players as necessary?

Giving preference to one start position? Also not possible (I think). They're handed out randomly - in a five player game (for example) with eight start positions there is no way to control which positions are or are not assigned.

But I can see where you're going with this. If you had a Mars Attacks! map for example it would be the case that you want one player to start as the aliens and everybody else is on earth fighting each other as well as fighting off the alien invaders - this would far less fun if the aliens were split up or started neutral.
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby gimil on Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:20 pm

Oaktown you are spot on.

Basically, each starting position is treated like a single territory and is randomly asigned to a player. So you can have as many starting position as you like but they will be randomly (and evenly) divided with remainder being ignored and those territorties that were in the starting position tags will be randomly asigned to players by default.

So lets take an example...

12 starting positions, each starting position has 3 terrs.

In a 6 player game each player is randomly asigned 2 starting postions, fine.

In an 8 player game each player is randomly asigned 1 starting position with 4 left over. Those 4 positions add up to 12 territories. Because the 4 leftover positions cant be evenly handed out to 8 players (you can't get half a starting position) those 12 territories are randomly asigned to players like a dafault game on classic.
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby InkL0sed on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:52 pm

Could you make two territories starting territories, and have the rest just be the only territories that aren't neutrals?
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby gimil on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:54 pm

InkL0sed wrote:Could you make two territories starting territories, and have the rest just be the only territories that aren't neutrals?


Yes, after the starting positions are evenly handed out, the non starting positions are handed out in the default manner.
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby InkL0sed on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:55 pm

gimil wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Could you make two territories starting territories, and have the rest just be the only territories that aren't neutrals?


Yes, after the starting positions are evenly handed out, the non starting positions are handed out in the default manner.


So that would solve MrBenn's problem?
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby gimil on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:55 pm

InkL0sed wrote:
gimil wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Could you make two territories starting territories, and have the rest just be the only territories that aren't neutrals?


Yes, after the starting positions are evenly handed out, the non starting positions are handed out in the default manner.


So that would solve MrBenn's problem?


Me, oak and benn spent about 2 hours on skype trying to solve his problem, he has much bigger problems than you guys see :P
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby InkL0sed on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:56 pm

Damn it. Well, I tried...
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:15 am

InkL0sed wrote:Could you make two territories starting territories, and have the rest just be the only territories that aren't neutrals?


No - because the "normal" starting territories are divided by 3 in a 2 player game (1 for neutral)... So minimum starting territories is 3. (Unless the positions tag is used)

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Re: Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:32 am

My understanding of how the start positions work is as follows:
  • Each <position> can contain single or multiple territories.
  • The <position> groups are divided equally amongst the players, with each player getting all of the territories in the <position(s)> they have been allocated. Any remaining territories in left-over <position> tags are divided equally (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games).
  • Territories in <position> tags can be dealt to players even when the underlying territory has a <neutral> tag
  • Any territories not in <position> tags, and that do not have <neutral> starts, are divided equally amongst players (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games)
  • If there are more players than starting positions, the <position> tags are ignored
  • It is not possible to specify which player will get which <position>
  • It is not possible to specify a <position> that will be dealt out in every game
  • It is not possible to limit the number of positions to the number of players (ie. the game engine will distribute 8 positions evenly amongst 4 players, rather than allocate 1 each and have 4 positions starting neutral)
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:35 am

MrBenn wrote:My understanding of how the start positions work is as follows:
  • Each <position> can contain single or multiple territories.
  • The <position> groups are divided equally amongst the players, with each player getting all of the territories in the <position(s)> they have been allocated. Any remaining territories in left-over <position> tags are divided equally (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games).
  • Territories in <position> tags can be dealt to players even when the underlying territory has a <neutral> tag
  • Any territories not in <position> tags, and that do not have <neutral> starts, are divided equally amongst players (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games)
  • If there are more players than starting positions, the <position> tags are ignored
  • It is not possible to specify which player will get which <position>
  • It is not possible to specify a <position> that will be dealt out in every game
  • It is not possible to limit the number of positions to the number of players (ie. the game engine will distribute 8 positions evenly amongst 4 players, rather than allocate 1 each and have 4 positions starting neutral)


Correct - also note that with the positions tags - you can set the amount of armies those territories start with too.

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Re: Starting Positions

Postby Pedronicus on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:33 am

I'd like to see an option on D-Day omaha beach, where the starting positions (in dubs, trips and quads) where team 1 are the Germans (in the bunkers and fields) and team 2 are the Americans (boats and beach) to try and recreate a more accurate battle.

the same application would be nice for all WW2 themed maps. It would help people understand what side started where in the beginning of a war.
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby gimil on Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:40 am

Pedronicus wrote:I'd like to see an option on D-Day omaha beach, where the starting positions (in dubs, trips and quads) where team 1 are the Germans (in the bunkers and fields) and team 2 are the Americans (boats and beach) to try and recreate a more accurate battle.

the same application would be nice for all WW2 themed maps. It would help people understand what side started where in the beginning of a war.


Unfortunatly we can't really specify team starting positions with the current abilities of the tag.
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XML Start Positions

Postby hecter on Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:18 pm

How exactly do they work? Like, when you have them in a map, are they the ONLY positions you can start on?
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:33 pm

Merged 'XML Start positions' into 'Starting Positions' thread
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